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Election marathon 2018-2020 in Poland


cms neuf - | 667    
10 Feb 2019  #61
I finished 101 many years ago Dirk :) though of course not Ivy League like yourself.

That is not what FDI stock means - you can see yourself that if you use your supposed definition then 186 + 6 = 192. So knowing that you are in the top one percent for math or whatever you said then a bit of simple algebra would mean outflows of er minus 32. I don't know what investor dictionary is but look at the definitions on the OECD or UNCTAD pages.

FDI stock includes loans made to those invested entities (of course it is going to increase as interest rates on zloty were low) and retained profits and currency effects.

The inflow number is the headline. When the first sentence reads "declined drastically" it's not normally a sunny report.

Here are some Polish reports - one concerned and one more neutral

htpb.pl/polska-nie-zbrzydla-inwestorom-947020

tps://m.bankier.pl/wiadomosc/NBP-Naplyw-inwestycji-zagranicznych-w-2017-r-spadl-o-55-proc-rdr-do-24-3-mld-zl-4111877.html

There is one thing in Poland's favor - the govt might be erratic but it is still better than most of the other options in the region - Turkey is univnestable. Anything close to Putin likewise, Ukraine has war and currency issues and Orban is worse than PiS. The countries that are best run like Lithuania or Slovenia are pulling in smaller investments (software, outsourcing etc) but don't have the labor or the land to build factories.

Even so the biggest rivals to Poland - Czech and Romania - all had far more FDI per capita than Poland I. 2017 and I guess will be the same pattern in 2018.
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
  10 Feb 2019  #62
OK, one example now because it is late. We are talking about "thieves and leeches" style of ruling,.

More and more corruption scandals are surfacing, with PiS men playing main roles.

Examples.

The detained financial expert had been nominated to his post by PiS and closely cooperated with them later on.
bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-13/poland-premier-to-probe-bank-watchdog-over-getin-bribe-report

Or
PiS nominated chairman of the Bank of Poland has employed two female assistants. They have earned 65K+ monthly, more than the Prime Minister or President. Not only Polish but foreign ones, too.

politico.eu/article/central-bank-pay-scandal-hits-poland-ruling-law-and-justice-party-jaroslaw-kaczynski/

Or
Radom corruption scandal, swept under the carpet by PiS controlled prosecution

Google translated article
navva.org/poland/nation/radom-scandal-mep-nowoczesna-wants-to-call-a-commission-for-special-services-where-pis-there-is-a-jump-polityka-everything-about-politics-in-dziennik-pl-2/

In Polish
newsweek.pl/polska/polityka/uklad-radomski-nieruchomosciowy-biznes-czolowych-politykow-pis/7hksch1
Chemikiem 5 | 1,408    
10 Feb 2019  #63
I have not come across anything too controversial in the news

More about JK here:

dw.com/en/kaczynski-tapes-reveal-murky-business-dealings-of-polands-powerful-pis-leader/a-47316459
Ironside 47 | 9,381    
10 Feb 2019  #64
More about JK here:

Nah, Chemikiem that just fake news. Nothing to it just some BS. Yeah GW is making a big thing out of nothing. Don' be mistaken about it.
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
10 Feb 2019  #65
Of course, not. Kaczyński proved a shrewd businessman who is able to take care of his party`s finances through suspicious deals, although the right wing media have always tried to present him as a holy- like patriotic politician.
Jaskier    
10 Feb 2019  #66
How is it fake? Noone questions the recording...
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,047    :-(
  10 Feb 2019  #67
As for FDI stock well that is more a reflection of how Polish investors are allocating cash

Wrong. That would be FDI outflow. FDI net outflows are the value of outward direct investment made by the residents of the reporting economy to external economies.

datahelpdesk.worldbank.org/knowledgebase/articles/114954-what-is-the-difference-between-foreign-direct-inve

That is Polish investors investing outside of Poland....

Again, FDI stock is all that matters ultimately.

Here's another source - fdiintelligence.com/Trend-Tracker/Poland-FDI-spikes-in-2017

And by FDI they mean total FDI, not just inflows (or outflows) which declined in 2017.

Yes, but according to you FDI is falling off a cliff.... even though every single financial website disagrees with you - even your own source says that Poland is one of the most attractive FDI destinations

That is not what FDI stock means - you can see yourself that if you use your supposed definition then 186 + 6 = 192

Jesus Christ..... FDI stock contains more than just inflows. The reason why 13.9k mil + 186k mil FDI stock from 2016 doesn't equal 220k mil FDI stock in 2017 is because there are other considerations like say for example a greenfield or joint venture from in 2015/2016/etc and their revenues, profits, etc.

The inflow number is the headline. When the first sentence reads "declined drastically" it's not normally a sunny report.

Inflows went down in 2017 - yet total FDI (FDI stock) was a RECORD HIGH, as numerous other sources such as those listed above confirm.

FDI stock includes loans made to those invested entities ... and retained profits and currency effects.

Yes, that is one of the things that comprise FDI stock - the most important measure of FDI as it includes inflows - outlets and all the financials of every foreign investment that was made in a country

FDI stock is not Polish investors investing outside of the country like you said earlier - that would be FDI outflows

And I never went to an Ivy league school. I was accepted into Cornell but didn't go as they offered me no grant/scholarship. Seeing all the social Marxist crap coming out of Harvard, Yale, etc. I am extremely happy I didn't go to Cornell. Plus, I would've had to take out loans which I despise as it only makes the 'chosen people' richer.
cms neuf - | 667    
10 Feb 2019  #68
Totally incorrect - FDI stock includes amounts allocated to FDI assets including loans or investments from Polish investors (e.g.
Polish banks or EBRD or in some cases Polish pension funds, JVs, listed Polish assets etc).

I know very well what FDI outflows are. I worked in this field for many years.

Maybe you should not have turned down that place at Cornell eh ?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,047    :-(
  12 Feb 2019  #69
Totally incorrect - FDI stock includes amounts allocated to FDI assets including loans or investments from Polish investors (e.g.

Yes if the investment is going outside the country that's considered FDI outflow, which subtracted from FDI inflow. I never said FDI outflow wasn't included in FDI stock. What you said is that loans made by Polish investors IS FDI stock, which it is not as it is one of the things that comprise FDI stock...

Besides, none of that changes the FACT, that Poland's FDI is most certainly not falling off a cliff as you stated. In fact, FDI keeps growing - a one year decline in 2017 in FDI inflows, which was also a record year for total FDI (FDI stock) indicates that Poland is not only one of the most attractive places to invest in, but it also has a considerable amount of FDI in the country as numerous sources including your own pointed out.

No, but instead you paint a picture of doom and gloom in the Polish economy simply because you don't like PiS when in fact the Polish economy is doing WONDERFULLY - GDP growth during several quarters was even higher than what analysts predicted, unemployment levels are at record lows, wages keep going up, and there is a huge demand for more workers which companies are struggling to fill and so they look to skilled immigrants from other countries.

I worked in this field for many years.

In what capacity?

Maybe you should not have turned down that place at Cornell eh ?

Seeing all the liberal BS coming out of the Ivy's? No thanks. The two most important things were the regional ranking of the school (it doesn't have to be the top school in the country, as long as it's number 1 or 2 in the city/state) and how much money they gave me. In Cornell's case it was -$50k a year. I'm sure some black basketball player with mediocre ACTs was more than happy to take my spot.
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
14 Feb 2019  #70
Biedroń`s Spring scored 14% in latest poll. They steal voters mainly from opposition parties, which, in result, might give PiS another term with parliament majority in October. Not good. .
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,047    :-(
  15 Feb 2019  #71
Biedron party = pedal club. He stole the most liberal lefties from po and won't wanna share. Kind of like a lame version of Jego Krolewskiej Mosci
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
  15 Feb 2019  #72
He stole the most liberal lefties from po

These lefties, as you say, were disappointed with PO`s conservative stance. E.g., a few months ago, most PO voted against a more liberal abortion law.

Biedron party = pedal club

Well, it doesn`t bother me. :) I believe that PiS neobolsheviks are much more dangerous than LGBT. :):)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,047    :-(
17 Feb 2019  #73
conservative stance

What's conservative about inviting mud people to Poland because the EU demanded it?

I believe that PiS neobolsheviks are much more dangerous than LGBT

Not nearly as diseased. Clearly LGBT are more of a threat to Polish society, majority of whom dislikes them.
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
17 Feb 2019  #74
What's conservative about inviting mud people to Poland because the EU demanded it?

Firstly, PO government agreed with the EU to accept about 8000, out of millions which reached Europe since 2015. I think it is conservative enough.

Besides, if it still bothers you, let me remind you that PiS government, without any agreements with anybody whatsoever, is importing workers from exotic Asian countries and allowing mass immigration from Ukraine. I am not against but it shows the hypocrisy of PiS rulers.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,352    
17 Feb 2019  #75
shows the hypocrisy of PiS

How? , they are promoting migration from safe countries and denying entry of people from crime and terrorist linked counties.

India, Ukraine, Philippines = safe

Syria,Afghanistan, Nigeria = criminals and terrorists.

What's wrong with above policy, It's working , I hear of no real incidents involving Indians and Ukrainians in Poland.

Yet France,Germany,UK are suffering with crime, rapes and terrorists.

Where is the Hypocrisy? the policy is keeping Poland safe whilst satisfying it's labour needs.
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
  17 Feb 2019  #76
India, Ukraine, Philippines = safe
Syria,Afghanistan, Nigeria = criminals and terrorists.

If you really believe so, you are probably naive or biased.

I hear of no real incidents involving Indians and Ukrainians in Poland.

You must have no every day contact with the Polish media.

Never mind what you know or not about Poland.

Where is the Hypocrisy?

My suggestion about PiS hypocrisy was made to show that PiS promised Poles to put a ban on ANY immigration into Poland, no matter if it is from a safe or criminal country. If they are clandestinely doing it now, they are hypocrites, right?
dolnoslask 5 | 2,352    
17 Feb 2019  #77
Never mind what you know or not about Poland.

Ok so in your opinion I don't have have an opinion here , so no point in Debating with you is there?

By the way how old are you?
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
  17 Feb 2019  #78
Ok so in your opinion I don't have have an opinion here , so no point in Debating with you is there?

I am really sorry, I didn`t want to offend you, it`s all because you sounded like another guy who is intent on unnerving me with his blind support for PiS. :):)

Ok, let`s discuss, forgive me my stupid words.
Instead of being brusque, I should have explained to you that some Ukrainian comers are not so innocent and the news reports are full of crime stories, from petty to very serious ones, it is just enough to google it. But that is normal, Poles aren`t perfect either when abroad.

By the way how old are you?

Old enough to feel patronising towards inexperienced youth and to feel equal with much older Methuselas wherever I meet them. :):)
dolnoslask 5 | 2,352    
17 Feb 2019  #79
blind support for PiS

Well that's not me in fact I find it more of a struggle to trust any political party these days,

My upbringing is very much along the lines of the II republic under Piłsudski, in those days no one used kurwa in every sentence, Ukrainian, Jews and Poles lived together and prospered , especially in the lost lands of the east where my family came from.

The last six years living here has been a bit of an eye opener for me, Poland is way different today compared to the exiled Polish community that I grew up in.

Still cant get over the fact that old commies are still in positions of power and getting very generous pensions, oh and the kurwa, never mid eh

Progress ?
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
  17 Feb 2019  #80
My upbringing is very much along the lines of the II republic under Piłsudski,

Let`s remember his merits in regaining independence but also his serious faults like abolishing democracy and introducing semi dictatorship. I can`t praise Piłsudski for that.

Still cant get over the fact that old commies are still in positions of power

That`s a result of certain choice that Poles made in 1989 - instead of a blood bath and executions, they decided on a gradual transition from communism to capitalism. I hope you understand that when you said A, you should say B to be consistent.

Old commies are everywhere, also in PiS, hardened communists and regime`s henchmen who suddenly became patriots but serve the same goals. . Why? Because there wasn`t a cruel witch hunt in Poland.. And that`s what Poles can be proud of.

oh and the kurwa, never mid eh

Yes, that is utter primitivism which I abhor too.
Ironside 47 | 9,381    
17 Feb 2019  #81
Let`s remember his merits in regaining independence

You don't understand what he is saying. He talks about Polish community that preserved pre-war ways. Without Soviets and all those post-colonial traumas.

That`s a result of certain choice that Poles made in 1989

Who made those choices? What Poles? Soviet Poles and their rats? Don't make me laugh that was a bad deal that still weights on Poland in a bad way.

And that`s what Poles can be proud of.

Only idiots are proud of it or those who benefited because of it. Transformation my foot. Where is all that stolen property? Should be given back to the rightful owners.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,352    
17 Feb 2019  #82
He talks about Polish community that preserved pre-war ways.

That's what I was trying to say, it's almost like a fork in the road , after the war Poland was put into a new direction by the soviets, our little but still substantial exile community carried on with the old ways.

abolishing democracy and introducing semi dictatorship. I can`t praise Piłsudski for that.

Poland never had democracy prior to Pilsudski, he was an army general that set us free remember. I guess you cant blame him for not understanding democracy, even so he was a good leader and very well respected by the Polish people at that time , my grandfather served as an officer in his cavalry, sadly he died in a transit camp in Africa after his release from Siberia during WWII.
Tacitus 2 | 828    
  17 Feb 2019  #83
Out of curiosity as an outsider, where exactly are all those communists supposed to still be in power?
Ziemowit 12 | 3,254    
17 Feb 2019  #84
Poland never had democracy prior to Pilsudski, he was an army general that set us free remember.

Yes, but the democracy prior to that was far stronger. Wasn't the camp at Bereza Kartuska for the sanacja's political opponents created just after the infamous coup d'etat of 1926 inspired by Józef Piłsudski ?

Finally, all of the sanacja people were readily ridiculed and blamed rightly after the infamous fall in Poland in 1939. The newly formed Polish government in exile did not want to hear the slightest mention of them, such was the outrage at the pompuous propaganda carried out by the sanacja in pre-war Poland ("nie oddamy ani guzika").

Isn't PiS propaganda likely to be of the same kind today?
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
  17 Feb 2019  #85
our little but still substantial exile community carried on with the old ways.

You don't understand what he is saying. He talks about Polish community that preserved pre-war ways.

Oh, I see, you cherish some idealised idea of pre-war Poland. Stop daydreaming. Which pre-war ways do you want to stick to or revive? Tragic poverty with peasants dividing matches into four to have more of them? The police shooting at protesters? Antisemitic marches, boycots and university bench ghetto? Oppression of political opponents?

Sorry, guys, pre-war Poland wasn`t a paradise, quite the opposite. Anybody who wishes it came back is out of place, out of time.

Poland never had democracy prior to Pilsudski,

Of course it is false. Check wiki entry History of Poland.

very well respected by the Polish people at that time

Not all, there were problems with burying him in the Wawel Cathedral.
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
17 Feb 2019  #86
Out of curiosity as an outsider, where exactly are all those communists supposed to still be in power?

E.g. Piotrowicz, PiS member, has his little power in the Parliament. Once he was a communist prosecutor and accused anticommunist opposition members. pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Piotrowicz_(polityk)
dolnoslask 5 | 2,352    
17 Feb 2019  #87
Which pre-war ways do you want to stick to or revive?

Now I never mentioned going back to "old days" I just posted my opinion as two how two groups of Poles diverged at a point in history.

I am happy for Poland to go it's own way, I am too old to change anything so for now I will go with the flow, but I won't be voting for any political party in Poland until one emerges that I feel has the people at its centre.

"selfless commitment to the common good"
OP pawian 144 | 7,546    
  17 Feb 2019  #88
I just posted my opinion as two how two groups of Poles diverged at a point in history.

Times change and countries with its peoples, too. It is normal anywhere.

but I won't be voting for any political party in Poland until one emerges that I feel has the people at its centre.

And that`s the best conclusion of our little discussion, after all the thread is about voting. :):)

Of course, many people feel disillusioned like you. But I think they should realise that sometimes there are more important things than personal aversion to politicians and parties. One of these things is stopping neobolsheviks from getting power again. :):) Poland must remain a free country.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,470    
17 Feb 2019  #90
Finally, all of the sanacja people were readily ridiculed and blamed rightly after the infamous fall in Poland in 1939.

They were really awful. I have a particularly strong dislike for Rydz-Śmigły and the fools that supported him, but Mościcki and his followers weren't any better.

Isn't PiS propaganda likely to be of the same kind today?

Hmm. I wouldn't say so, with the exception of the non-stop boasting about Poland's alleged strength.


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