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Election marathon 2018-2020 in Poland


10iwonka10 - | 396
10 Jun 2019  #1,021
The reason I compare it to Sweden,Britain....is that Poland is going towards capitalism and towards the same way of dealing with things. I know these are established democracies but they also have much ,much more benefits paid to people than just meagre 500zl.

Another thing is - that for instance in UK there is income tax similar like in Poland but there is also council tax - money for all these benefits are not coming from nowhere.

It is the matter of time that the second tax will be introduced in Poland....and there will start again in press,on forum....'Polish government is handing out money to losers....taxing more,and more working people !!!!!'-

I would say WELCOME TO CAPITALISM.
I think that in the most capitalistic countries there is second tax I think its state tax in USA....I have not researched it in all Europe but I think it is in the most European countries.
Lenka 2 | 1,311
10 Jun 2019  #1,022
In UK child benefit is £80 a month with wages a lot higher than Poland. The rest is means tested and capped .
In Poland, a poorer country, it's more without any restrictions

Plus, if I remember correctly it wasn't supposed to be a benefit as such (hence no limit on earnings) but a program raising birth rate
10iwonka10 - | 396
10 Jun 2019  #1,023
In UK child benefit is £80 a month with wages a lot higher than Poland.

As I am aware UK has no problem with birthrates Poland has so .....that is why this benefit has been introduced. Another thing if it works or not.

The rest is means tested and capped

Maybe but there are lots of different benefits.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,377
10 Jun 2019  #1,024
As I am aware UK has no problem

Among natives yes, among foreigners most definitely not.

The rest is means tested and capped .

Oh please the benefits are extremely easy to get in UK. Tons of poles are on them and work for cash and even use it to fund their retirement. Not to mention all the third worlders are on it. When a stat test is against sample of life long benefits recipients the means won't mean ****.

a population of bums and life long benefits recipients the mean doesn't mean ****.

it's about 200 zloty if we are careful, 300 if we are not,

You obviously buy ****** food and don't eat out much. 1 trip to a decent restaurant in the city square will easily run you 100 zs alone for 3 people. It's not much by western standards but when poles are making 4k 5k on average brutto it's not all that.

Considering poland officially has developed market status according to mercer, what you wrote is b.s. Germany, UK, Sweden, france etc spending a thousand plus Euro a month on feeding, housing and caring for all the the turd world bums vs Poland giving 500zs plus to families, even though polands economy relative to population isn't far off from those countries who have 2x 3x as many people and about 3 4x the gpd of Poland. In terms of sheer gdp it's the 8th largest. It can definitely afford to give 120 EU plus to families. Hell Poland is even looking to spend billions on new f35 on top of the two billion investment into fort trump. Poland today is not the same country as Poland in 1995 or even 2005.

Oh and who said I dont live in Poland?
10iwonka10 - | 396
10 Jun 2019  #1,025
@Dirk diggler

As I said this before this moaning about 500zl is petty and out of proportion. Someone would think it is incited by PO supporters....not happy they did not introduce it first.

You are right Poland is changing very quickly. I think there is growing group in Poland of rich and very rich people. It is enough to have a look at property prices.....houses in Krakow - prices easily start from 1-2 mln zl. Every time I visit Poland I can see difference and to be honest it is difference for better- maybe except this constant moaning of people:-).
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,377
10 Jun 2019  #1,026
Exactly... They're just mad because PO didn't think of it first...

They act as if 500 zl will spell the doom for Poland. Well it certainly won't considering the economy is healthy and Poland has been on a boom for close to 3 decades constantly growing. Compared to what other countries spend on people who don't even deserve it 500 z is nothing. Also, governments can still function at a deficit like france, us, etc. does. Difference is Poland has a solid tax base and more importantly government companies and corporate taxes.
mafketis 20 | 7,058
10 Jun 2019  #1,027
Poland has been on a boom for close to 3 decades constantly growing

That is not the PiS party line at all.... you need to get with the program comrade!
10iwonka10 - | 396
10 Jun 2019  #1,028
I also think that there is one basic true which seems to be missing somewhere. For majority of people the most important is their quality of life :

low unemployment,
economical stability,
good standards of life,
safety,
freedom of press, speech

not necessary which party has majority in the Parliament, government. So some people can call it 'populism' but there is nothing negative about it- populism is for people for masses, for majority to be happy and to lead comfortable life . Should not it be the main aim to achieve for government elected by these masses?

Instead of creating 'elites' with superior attitude who know better.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,377
10 Jun 2019  #1,029
Of course not. Populism literally means appealing to popular demands. It's been turned into something negative by (((media))) because they realized bringing in infinite turd worlders, teaching kids how to masturbate at 10 and raising taxes for the middle classes isn't all that popular. Meanwhile, protectionism, patriotism, strong border control and conservatism is popular especially in poland
Dougpol1 30 | 2,853
12 Jun 2019  #1,030
As I am aware UK has no problem with birthrates Poland has so .....that is why this benefit has been introduced

Why should I subsidise someone elses's child? How ridiculous. And for the man in Premysl or wherever it was, photographed with a grinning ape-like Duda on town hall interior steps, when the 500 plus was introduced, it was a case of 7 kids.

The man simply said "Thank you President Duda, for allowing me to put food in my childrens' mouths". He wasn't working of course - that would be pointless with 7 kids to "supervise" according to the original article. Now, there is a man in Licolnshire who has 17 children or thereabouts - and has never claimed a single handout in his life, but he can afford to have so many children. Don't have children if you're going to neglect them because you can't feed them.

Poland is a land of hand-outs, and I deplore it - for PIS policies breed lazyness. Raise the minimum wage, plus social credits for those in work and raise the tax threshold - sure. But handouts send the wrong message, are fiscally unsustainable, and the next generation will regret it. That is guaranteed.

Maybe the electorate aren't mature enough to grasp the above - as it's so simple there must be some reason why government have not gone down that route - it's probably because they want to keep the poorer in society at heel and subservient to them..
Miloslaw 6 | 1,818
12 Jun 2019  #1,031
Poland is a land of hand-outs, and I deplore it

But handouts send the wrong message

Blimey Doug!
Are you starting to understand the advantages of Capitalism over Socialism?
Dougpol1 30 | 2,853
12 Jun 2019  #1,032
Capitalism over Socialism?

As I stated before, Britain is the 5th largest economy in the world. There is no excuse for lack of social justice there - although the conservatives are bent on denying it to millions of people.

Poland on the other hand is a land of political opportunists who need shooting ( in the non-literal sense - which is what the phrase pertains to in the Oxford dictionary)
Miloslaw 6 | 1,818
12 Jun 2019  #1,033
@Dougpol1
So, Socialism for Britain, because we can afford it, but not for Poland, because they can't?
Doug, there is no stomach for Socialism in either country.
Dougpol1 30 | 2,853
12 Jun 2019  #1,034
not for Poland

Poland has always had socialism. It's not a real market economy. If it were, there would be maybe 10 coal mines today, not to mention the other ridiculous waste that goes on, such as the ZUS employment scandal, where whole districts of small towns are made up of inhabitants who work in "local administration".
Miloslaw 6 | 1,818
12 Jun 2019  #1,035
Poland has always had socialism

Socialism has no place in Poland.
It just does not suit the culture of the people.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,377
12 Jun 2019  #1,036
Why should I subsidise someone elses's child? How ridiculous.

Indeed. Yet you apparently have no problem with turd world invaders coming over and taking care of their soccer team full of kids. Cognitive dissonance. Perhaps theres a certain shade of skin where you go from having no problem supporting someone elses kids to problem. Or you just don't like polish kids....

Poland is a land of hand-outs, and I deplore it -

And UK, France, Germany aren't? You know UK does the same thing except on a far larger scale. The benefits you can get compared to Poland aren't even in the same ballpark. Cognitive dissonance again. When it's Poland it's bad, when UK does it no problem. Didn't you exclaim that you can't wait to enjoy your UK pension/handout,?
Dougpol1 30 | 2,853
13 Jun 2019  #1,037
Not a handout. Worked for 37 years now, and contributed by NIS/ZUS.
cms neuf - | 867
13 Jun 2019  #1,038
Socialism in 2019 does have a place in Poland

The govt policy is to tax banks, supermarkets, high earners and use the dividends from poorly run state owned companies - the resulting cash is then distributed evenly into the population with nothing asked in return,

This policy is extremely popular with ordinary Poles. It seems free money has a greater power than their cultural beliefs.

Can you find a better example of socialism in Europe today ?
Dougpol1 30 | 2,853
13 Jun 2019  #1,039
It just does not suit the culture of the people.

Obviously you don't know the citizenry very well. That's all I can say. Of course, Pomerania and the cities think differently, and wish to keep hold of their own money more. But PIS always stick their noses in where public money shouldn't.

One simple example is that most pop bands cant afford to play Gdynia beach festivals anymore because of the taxes involved. pIS again - apparently.
gumishu 11 | 5,007
13 Jun 2019  #1,040
I would say WELCOME TO CAPITALISM.

this is not capitalism - what you are writing about is a welfare state
gumishu 11 | 5,007
13 Jun 2019  #1,041
One simple example is that most pop bands cant afford to play Gdynia beach festivals anymore because of the taxes involved.

are you sure this is about state taxes and not about local taxes
10iwonka10 - | 396
13 Jun 2019  #1,042
Can you find a better example of socialism in Europe today ?

Very easy....France, UK, Germany......lots benefits for nothing.
cms neuf - | 867
13 Jun 2019  #1,043
Certainly not the case in either Germany or the UK where I have lived - you have means tested benefits, benefit caps and a contributory system. It is not funded by special taxes on banks or retailers and the govt there does not treat state companies as ATMs.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,664
13 Jun 2019  #1,044
i think it's hilarious when mutts from an immigrant background with no identity start whining about immigrantsin other countries
cms neuf - | 867
13 Jun 2019  #1,045
Exactly - there are plenty of other threads about immmgrants - this one is about Polish politics and the biggest question of the moment is how to fund Kaczynski 5 - not refugees from Eritrea
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,664
13 Jun 2019  #1,046
yes but CMS neuf, Dirky has to turn every discussion round to his obsessions, (black men , sex, and butts)
Dougpol1 30 | 2,853
13 Jun 2019  #1,047
are you sure this is about state taxes and not about local taxes

100 percent gumishu. PIS introduced a state law where beach festivals and other activities are now taxed at central level. Zilch to do with the local authorities - who obviously want to promote such beach festivals.

A case of two authorities pulling in opposite directions and only one of the policies makes sense if you want more local business - but PIS are too dim and greedy to see that. Typical socialism - "Hey! You're making money selling beer to tourists! As well as the tax from the sale of that beer, give us some extra taxes for allowing people to have fun."
gumishu 11 | 5,007
13 Jun 2019  #1,048
PIS introduced a state law where beach festivals and other activities are now taxed at central level. Zilch to do with the local authorities

I see - I wasn't aware of any such laws

his one is about Polish politics and the biggest question of the moment is how to fund Kaczynski 5 - not refugees from Eritrea

Morawiecki was clear about the KaczyƄski 5: it is going to be at least partially funded by debt - a handful of European countries run on debt but this is not the way to go (see the Greek, Italian, Spanish or even French scenario)
10iwonka10 - | 396
13 Jun 2019  #1,049
@cms neuf
'Means tested benefits'- Big family , parents don't work ( too stressed, back pains.....standard excuses) so they receive free house and weekly benefits. That is how it is in UK. Is it the same in Poland ? Really....

This forum should be about Poland but saying IT IS ONLY IN POLAND ..when it is not true makes all this discussion bit childish. Poland is in EU and in Europe not just some isolated country on deserted island so things have to be compared.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,377
13 Jun 2019  #1,050
Dirky has to turn every discussion round to his obsessions

Kind of how you turn every discussion to your obsession. Me. Sorry but my current gf and side piece is already enough to have a daily headache.

I wasn't even talking to you, responding to your posts, etc yet you bring me in. That convo w cmf and maf wasn't even today or on this page.

And polands economic situation and gdp to debt ratio isn't nowhere near italy portugal Greece or even France. Germany and UK now even has problems thanks to all the turd worlders they let in who have two left hands and don't want to work.

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