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Election marathon 2018-2020 in Poland


mafketis 21 | 7,458
26 Feb 2019 #121
PiS has announced their bombastic programme of giving away money to the public (voters)

while no money for disabled people and teachers.....
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
26 Feb 2019 #122
PiS managed to put off so many different groups in Poland that they will never get more than 35% now. And pro-PiS country voters and a few urban conservatives are not enough to give them victory.

while no money for disabled people and teachers.....

And a few more groups, too.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,113
26 Feb 2019 #123
PiS has announced their bombastic programme of giving away money to the public (voters), they stand a good chance for achieving that goal.

Money talks and bullsh1t walks..........
I haven't as yet heard mention of how this is to be funded.
Ironside 48 | 9,900
27 Feb 2019 #124
It doesn`t work as long as Poland is a member of the EU.

EU has nothing to do with it.

Because the German parliament, the German government and the German public believed this to be the right decision.

Exactly. Has any foreign country were trying to teach you how to run your own affairs? eh?

those most primitive or aggressive PiS members

Dude, what is a difference between them and you ? I don't see any, well there is one - they are in charge and you are not and you whine like a little Biatch.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
27 Feb 2019 #125
EU has nothing to do with it.

By joining the EU, Poland agreed to conform to European laws. If they are broken, the country is held responsible.

Please, stop reasoning like a little boy who, angered by his mates, leaves the sandbox with his toys and goes home. PiS acts according to this rule and one day they might cause Polexit just like British elites who also had been spitting on the EU for decades and one day they realised with horror it gave effects.

Dude, what is a difference between them and you

How about you and me?? No difference at all. I constantly whine about PiS, you constantly whine about me. :):) Thank you. )

Hey do you remember your furious defence of that former communist oppressor of Solidarity opposition? How about it? Just curious.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,608
27 Feb 2019 #126
Money talks and bullsh1t walks..........I haven't as yet heard mention of how this is to be funded.

They are going to dig up between 30 and 40 billion zloties out of the black hole which is situated somewhere between Warsaw and Cracow.

PiS managed to put off so many different groups in Poland that they will never get more than 35% now.

A prediction of Jadwiga Staniszkis says that PiS is de-railed once people start to demand more and more on seeing that money is being handed around and PiS would no longer be able to comply with it.

you constantly whine about me. :):) Thank you. )

He's been always like that. A golden boy and a true Polish patriot who loves Poland, but chooses to live outside Poland and hate all those who live within. Do you live in Poland, Pawian?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
27 Feb 2019 #127
that PiS is de-railed once people start to demand more and more on seeing that money is being handed around and PiS would no longer be able to comply with it.

Yes, this is their problem, as the last government kept a lid on salaries. PiS are now discovering that the ridiculous boom in salaries in the private sector combined with some large price increases means that they've now got to find a way to quieten the public sector workers. I'm not sure they will be quiet - not after this "giveaway". One of the best and experienced teachers I know just quit mid-year and without notice after being offered a corporate job for 3x her teaching salary, because there's zero prospect of teachers getting a real raise.

The whole thing screams of Kaczyński panicking after the poll showing KE to be ahead of PiS.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
27 Feb 2019 #128
He's been always like that. Do you live in Poland, Pawian?

Yes, I have been his/her arch f(r)iend for over a decade now. :)
Thanks God, yes, of course. :)

that they've now got to find a way to quieten the public sector workers. I'm not sure they will be quiet - not after this "giveaway"

Yes, I expressed hope the teachers` strike should be really long.

The whole thing screams of Kaczyński panicking after the poll showing KE to be ahead of PiS.

Not only him. They are all sh tting in their pants now. The slogan : "The cell is waiting" might unexpectedly come true for a few of them one day. :):)
Ironside 48 | 9,900
28 Feb 2019 #129
By joining the EU, Poland agreed to conform to European laws. If they are broken, the country is held responsible.

Dude, are you broken? There c3terian agreements but I'm talking about interfering into internal Polish affairs, like fixing courts or laws or whatever. You might agree with the attempted change or not that is not the point. My point is that should be left for the Polish people to decide without all that foreign clamor and pressure and whatnot.

What are you a bit a slow on the uptake? Have no clue about the world and the way things are working? Being a Soviet slave for too long and it has left a lasting impression? Maybe you are just a tool? Whatever it is there is something wrong with you. I no one can have a rational debate with you.

I constantly whine about PiS, you constantly whine about me. :):

I'm not. I'm disappointed. How can you make rational political choices if you just don't know nothing and understand even less. Hell, your debate skills are no existed.

but chooses to live outside Poland

That is your argument? Lame.
Bagel
28 Feb 2019 #130
who cares about politics life is full with other things
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
28 Feb 2019 #131
My point is that should be left for the Polish people to decide without all that foreign clamor and pressure and whatnot.

It seems you are not able to follow logical arguments. Or you are just fixed in denial of everything I say, which is even more probable, because I don`t believe you could be so limited after all.

When I said that Poland must conform to European laws, especially those concerning independent judiciary, it is because majority of Poles voted that when they held a referendum about accessing the EU.

It is so logically obvious that I don`t know why you are arguing at all.

who cares about politics life is full with other things

Some people care about stamps, other about sex, still other about politics. Some care about all three. That is why this world is so interesting to live in. :):)
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
28 Feb 2019 #132
Maybe you are just a tool?

No, it is you who is working as a tool. You and we know whose. You are one of those useful fools whose goal is to conflict Poland with the EU so that Poles are left alone one day when Russia decides to recreate her empire even further.

Classic Targowica treachery comes to my mind when I read your antiPolish rants. Get lost, traitor. I have come back and I won`t allow you to do more damage here.
Atch 17 | 2,915
28 Feb 2019 #133
You are one of those useful fools

I'm not sure about the useful bit! :D To be fair, I don't think Ironside is paid by anybody. I mean really Pawian, if you were employing him as an agent of some kind, would you continue to pay for a service of that quality :)) Mind you the eejits at the Kremlin or wherever they are (dearie me, it's hard to keep track of who's who in the world of epsionage and misinformation) anyway, the assorted eejits who organize such efforts are pretty inept. They're not very good at this sort of thing. Now if you want somebody stabbed with the point of a poisoned pencil or something, that's their thing, but when it comes to trolling they're very clumsy indeed.
Spike31 2 | 884
28 Feb 2019 #134
Konfederacja, a real alternative to PiS on a right side of Polish political scene was established by RN, Korwin, Braun, Skuteczni this week.
So don't just focus on smokes and mirrors created by PO-PiS on this thread :-)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
28 Feb 2019 #135
Konfederacja, a real alternative to PiS

A real alternative that is polling a couple of percent. It's nothing more than a means to get Korwin-Mikke and Robert Winnicki to the trough, given that both of them have no chance of getting into the Sejm at the next elections.
Ironside 48 | 9,900
28 Feb 2019 #136
When I said that Poland must conform to European laws, especially those concerning independent judiciary,

Could you point me to a specific legalization that states that any bill of the Polish Parliament concerning judiciary (for example) has to be approved by the EU?

I'm not aware that such paragraph or agreement exist. IF I'm wrong would be so kind and quote an article, paragraph or passage from the treaty or an agreement between Poland and the EU that would correct my allegedly erroneous believe?

My argument is based on an assumption that Poland is not a direct vasal of the EU and retained a certain amount of the independence. At least in regard to internal issues.

IF that the case. You're in the wrong assuming that the EU can and have a right interfere into internal Polish legislation. Hence you suffer from a extensive servitude syndrome. Hey if you are butler at heath you should look up to me your better not some foreign crook.

conflict Poland with the EU so that Poles are left alone one day when Russia

OK, you used words like an argument and a logic in your post. So, I'll not ask IF YOU heard about those words. Yet seems obvious that you don't understand meaning those words convey.

EU has little to do with Poland's security. In a potential conflict with Russia the EU plays not part. IT is NATO you're looking for while talking about an alliance to protect Poland against Russia or anyone for the matter.

You sound really confused and not quite there. while imagining that you make some kind of an argument. You're not! Logic? Yes, you should study it.

Targowica treachery comes to my mind when I read your antiPolish rants. Get lost, traitor.

Indeed. Condoning foreign interference into internal polish affairs that should be sorted out between Polish people is in fact treachery. So if anything you are a traitor.

@Atch I think Irish government should pay you not to post. You make Irish people look bad.
Top of the morning to yer! lol!
Spike31 2 | 884
28 Feb 2019 #137
A real alternative that is polling a couple of percent

Every project starts small before it become big. The EU parliament elections will be a test for this new formation. Korwin by itself has 2 MEPs in Polish parliament and 2 more in the EU parliament. So I believe that Konfederacja can achieve much better results.
Tacitus 2 | 889
28 Feb 2019 #138
has to be approved by the EU?

You are deliberately distorting the issue here. Poland agreed to adhere to the principles of the rule of law and guarantee the independence of the judiciary when it joined the EU. This is a binding agreement that lasts for as long as Poland is in the EU. It is not the EU which is the problem here, it is the PiS government.
Ironside 48 | 9,900
28 Feb 2019 #139
You are deliberately distorting the issue here.

Am I? Could you be more specific here rather than hide behind meaningless rhetoric?

Poland agreed to adhere to the principles of the rule of law and guarantee the independence of the judiciary when it joined the EU.

That is just a general formula that still doesn't give the right to some random foreign entity or random people to arbitrary decide on what constitute breach of that declaration. There isn't any defined independent body that has that right to do so. Nor there is a legal path that would make clear what to do in a case some EU country wouldn't abide by such principles.

All interpretations are left for the politicians. It removes that issue from a sphere of a law or legally binding international agreements into a murky, grey zone of play of interests.

Please, do not bring up principles here.

It is not the EU which is the problem here, it is the PiS government.

Yes, I know that issue has been used as a tool against PiS grovemnat and has nothing to do with some lofty principles or agreements.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
28 Feb 2019 #140
I know what logic means. But never forget that I always have a broad perspective in mind when I discuss things. I didn`t talk exclusively about a purely military conflict. There are also economic conflicts and hybrid ones too. If you don`t catch it, it is not my fault.

Condoning foreign interference into internal polish affairs that should be sorted out between Polish people is in fact treachery.

Yes, funny, the point of seeing depends on the point of sitting. I prefer to side with the EU to avoid siding with the Kremlin, while you on the contrary.

To be fair, I don't think Ironside is paid by anybody.

Well, he probably isn`t :) but does everything to sound like one. Whenever I read his arguments/ reasoning, I get sick that such an intelligent person, who claims to be closely connected with Poland, might be so stupidly blind as to promote that anti-Polish agenda. It is simply incomprehensible.

if you were employing him as an agent of some kind, would you continue to pay for a service of that quality

Well, I suppose that real trolls are paid for much lower quality posts than our Iron. Not all Internet users are uni professors, so anything goes. He could earn quite a lot if he applied to the Factory in Sankt Petersburg. :):)
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
28 Feb 2019 #141
formula that still doesn't give the right to some random foreign entity

Stop ranting, you are wasting time. The EU simply defended the Polish Constitution breached by PiS government. PiS understood its mistake and partly withdrew from faulty legislation. Simple? Simple.

The new legislation is also important for another reason - Jarosław Kaczyński's political party has publicly acknowledged its mistakes. The authors of the legislation state in it that the version passed in December 2017 may violate the constitution. The same ones whose legitimacy had been disputed multiple times by the ruling party.

oko.press/new-legislation-on-supreme-court-published-pis-officially-gives-up-eu-has-no-plans-to-quit/
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
28 Feb 2019 #142
Korwin by itself has 2 MEPs in Polish parliament and 2 more in the EU parliament. So I believe that Konfederacja can achieve much better results.

Yes, but Korwin, the politician, is quite a controvercial person, actually very radical. E.g., he claimed that women are less intelligent than men. Paradoxically, I know women who like him and vote his party at each elections. They do it because they like elegant males - Korwin always wears a bow. :):)

theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/14/polish-mep-janusz-korwin-mikke-punished-saying-women-less-intelligent-men

A far-right Polish MEP who said women must earn less than men because they are weaker, smaller and less intelligent has been handed an unprecedented punishment by the European parliament.
Spike31 2 | 884
28 Feb 2019 #143
@Pawian, Korwin's controversy comes from the fact that he is honest, too honest for a politician ;-). It says a lot about the state of modern democracy that being honest places you firmly in a 'controversial' box.

And yes, he quoted politically incorrect statistics which says that "women on average have lower IQ than men". So blame God/mother nature/natural selection/patriarchy (or whatever you believe in) not Korwin for simply stating that fact :-P

He also said that women have higher EQ, emotional intelligence.

PS: he didn't say "they must earn less because" but "they earn less because". There's a big difference between those two statements.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,473
28 Feb 2019 #144
I'd say it's the opposite. Women may have higher iqs but they're restricted due to their emotions, feelings, etc.
Tacitus 2 | 889
28 Feb 2019 #145
Are you sure that you are not describing yourself here?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,473
1 Mar 2019 #146
I make decisions based on facts, data and reason, not emotion or feelings. That's why I'm able to back up my positions with evidence. Most waahhhmen arent able to do that. Nor are liberals as most their positions are based upon feelings and emotions, not facts or data. They make choices based on feelings which are increasingly manipulated by liberal Zionist owned media. That's so many otherwise intelligent women in w Europe think helping turd worlders, even grounding a plane so an afghan rapist isn't deported, is noble. Thankfully most Slavic women are above such nonsense. Institutions that our European ancestors built over eons have been destroyed in part by such waahhhmen, especially the liberal feminist type.
Ironside 48 | 9,900
1 Mar 2019 #147
that "women on average have lower IQ than men".

How statistic can measure IQ? That would be a research. Never mind.

Regardless above sentence is false. Women's IQ on average doesn't differ significantly from men's IQ. A difference appears on extremes.

I prefer to side with the EU to avoid siding with the Kremlin, while you on the contrary.

How came you are unable to understand a simple sentence. You don't side with any force outside Poland otherwise it makes you a traitor. Polish people should sort out their differences without intercession from abroad. IF someone invite or welcome a foreign interference on his behave automatically becomes a traitor scum. There is only a one sure way of dealing with traitors. A rope.

The EU simply defended the Polish Constitution breached by PiS government.

The EU has no mandate nor right to do anything of that sort. Besides Polish Constitution cannot be 'breached' due t o the fact it is useless piece of post-communist nonsense. Its incoherent and crappy.

Anyhow, it is immaterial what PiS does or doesn't and what Constitution is or isn't. That doesn't matter. It belong to debate between Polish people. Foreign factors shouldn't interfere that is my point. Whoever invites or begs foreigners to intervene on his behave is a traitor regardless of his stated reasons. As such should have be dealt with suitably.
Tacitus 2 | 889
1 Mar 2019 #148
I make decisions based on facts, data and reason, not emotion or feelings.

I don't know who you are and how you hacked this account, but you should have a look at the accounts' post history. Then you'd see that the previous owner constantly wrote rants about muslims regardless of the topic of the thread, and refused to see reason when others pointed out that his views lacked any base in reality.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
1 Mar 2019 #149
It belong to debate between Polish people. Foreign factors shouldn't interfere that is my point.

As long as Poland is in the EU, PiS can`t do whatever they want. Thanks God and amen.

PS. Poland isn`t a superpower and, with our position and history, either we are in the EU and NATO or in Russia. The choice is simple. You see nothing wrong with being in Russia and that`s treachery for me because the only way for the Kremlin to control Poland successfully is by means of the extermination of patriotic elites and Siberian gulags, like in the past. You want the history to repeat, I don`t. So far the EU hasn`t been sending Poles to Gulags for being insubordinate. Do you really believe the Kremlin will act likewise? Of course not.

That is why you sound like a traitor to Polish interests..
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
1 Mar 2019 #150
Whoever invites or begs foreigners to intervene on his behave is a traitor regardless of his stated reasons. As such should have be dealt with suitably.

I remember how PiS went to the US to beg for their intervention. Have you forgotten?

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