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Election marathon 2018-2020 in Poland


OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  17 Feb 2019  #91
I have a particularly strong dislike for Rydz-Śmigły and the fools that supported him, but Mościcki and his followers weren't any better.

Yes, Rydz was a stinking coward who left the fighting army and tried to escape to Romania.
That is why it is so painful to see streets named after him in Polish cities. I would prefer to see Snowman Street or Santa Clause Street instead of Rydz Śmigły Street. Pathetic.

with the exception of the non-stop boasting about Poland's alleged strength.

Yes, it is pathetic too, this is propaganda directed at typical PiS voters, simpletons without any idea whatsoever. PiS told them that Poland must rise from her knees and they swallow it like geese.
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
17 Feb 2019  #92
Rydz was a stinking coward who left the fighting

whoever he was and he wasn't that great, he wasn't a coward that's for sure, he was a parotitic officers who shouldn't be ever promoted to be anything more than a three star general.

it is pathetic too, this is propaganda directed at typical PiS voters, simpletons without any idea whatsoever

Why do you think you are any better? Just cause you support PO? I would think that anyone who isn't put off by PO's bland display of incompetency, lack of values and corruption is the greatest moron on the planet.

From my point of view (someone who doesn't side with any of the outgoing partisan squabbles) you are not only pathetic but totally clueless or delusional pesano..

The onus should be on problems and solution to those problems not finger wagging, finger pointing and finger showing i.e. all that useless partisan BS. Those who participate in such a nonsense should be ashamed of themselves unless their are really just deluded peasants. Then they don't know any better.

Yet, I restrain myself time and time again and talk to you (most of the time) as if you were my equal. I don't look down on people just because they have lower IQ, less money, class or whatnot. I try to treat them in a courteous manner even thought sometimes as it happens I'm curt with them on the account of me loosing my patients with obstinate fools who don't know much and understand even less.

I don't look down on them at all if they are nice enough.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
17 Feb 2019  #93
IronsideGeez you're so lame

That`s funny, I mentioned Piotrowicz, a former communist prosecutor who accused Solidarity opposition members and got awards for dutiful work, today he`s in PiS, and you reacted so emotionally. Why? Is he your relative?
Torq 26 | 2,363    
17 Feb 2019  #94
he was a parotitic officers

Pair'o'tit-ic? You mean he had a pair of tits? I must say you have developet quite a sophisticated vocabulary recently, Iron. ;)

their are really just deluded peasants

But you see, Iron, we ARE peasants. Poland is, by and large, a peasant country. 90-95% of our society has peasant roots, and uprisings, wars and persecutions throughout our history mean that most of our nobility and inteligentsia were either banished or killed. Very few noblemen, like you, survived, and those who did decided to leave us, peasants, to our own devices and emigrated (like you did). :(

I don't look down on people just because they have lower IQ, less money, class or whatnot.

That's what I have always admired about you, Iron. The fact that you're such a gentlemen. Never putting people down!
dolnoslask 5 | 2,272    
17 Feb 2019  #95
Very few noblemen, like you, survived, and those who did decided to leave us, peasants, to our own devices and emigrated (like you did). :(

But Dolno returned to the family homeland to fill the space made by the ironside, oh the circle of life.

Now peasants where were we , time to get back on topic.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
17 Feb 2019  #96
I would think that anyone who isn't put off by PO's bland display of incompetency, lack of values and corruption is the greatest moron on the planet.

The funniest thing is that now you are talking about PiS. They have surpassed PO on a scale unknown in Poland before.
Torq 26 | 2,363    
17 Feb 2019  #97
Now peasants where were we , time to get back on topic.

Right. It is surprising though that with so many of us, peasants, the only genuine peasant party (PSL) gets relatively few votes. Oh, well... it's all too complicated to my incorrigibly peasant mind.

*off to listen to some peasant music*

youtube.com/watch?v=IsUxZC9dUgo
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  23 Feb 2019  #98
Two pieces of news today.

It is surprising though that with so many of us, peasants, the only genuine peasant party (PSL) gets relatively few votes.

PSL joined the European Coalition and now nearly all opposition parties are united before European elections. That`s good. PiS may lose.

PiS leader announced new benefits for families and the elderly which will cost the budget 30 billion. That`s bad. PiS may win.
cms neuf - | 687    
24 Feb 2019  #99
It was up to 40 billion by the evening news. I can live with the extension of 500 plus but the other elements especially no tax before age 26 are truly Venezuelan.

40 billion works out at 4000 zloty extra to be funded by the 9 million Poles who are actually working. Or VAT increases ?
Spike31 2 | 699    
24 Feb 2019  #100
I can live with the extension of 500 plus but the other elements especially no tax before age 26 are truly Venezuelan

On the contrary. 500+ is sounds more "Venezuelan" to me and reducing the tax is a step in the right direction. A country is rich by the accumulated wealth of its citizens and not by the amount of taxes and contributions the administration takes from citizens. Citizens knows better what are their needs, and how to spend their own money, than the government.
mafketis 17 | 6,510    
24 Feb 2019  #101
PiS leader announced

that they simply campaigning for the votes of low information low future orientation voters by promising to hand out freeeeeeee moooonnnneeeyyyyyy!!!!!!!

I hope it won't work - they've been rocked by scandals and the revelations that party boss JK is carrying on business negotiations while sort of representing the government despite having no registered business entity and no formal position with the government that would allow him to do so in a non-corrupt manner.

it won't matter for the core PiS voters, but it should drive off most of the swing voters that put them over before...
Jaskier    
24 Feb 2019  #102
especially no tax before age 26 are truly Venezuelan

It works against gaining better education. Finishing studies, especially medicine or law, doesn't leave a lot of time to enjoy it. You can spend 7 years working without paying tax or study...

On the other hand the ones who have to work to study will have a bit more money in the pocket.
Tacitus 2 | 803    
24 Feb 2019  #103
despite having no registered business entity and no formal position with the government

It is quite ironic that someone who supposedly despised the SU and the Communists is so quick to copy their power structure. Poland has both a PM and a president, but JK is still the one who really counts. Just like the SU, in which the General Secretary of the Communist Party had all the power, despite not necessarily holding the highest official position.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
24 Feb 2019  #104
40 billion works out at 4000 zloty extra to be funded by the 9 million Poles who are actually working.

Yes, someone will have to pay for those promises.

A country is rich by the accumulated wealth of its citizens and not by the amount of taxes and contributions the administration takes from citizens

Yes, PiS lowered a few minor taxes but the main 23% VAT and income tax have remained the same since 2011 despite PiS`s promises.

konkret24.tvn24.pl/polityka,112/rzad-pis-obnizyl-kazdy-istotny-podatek-sprawdzamy-slowa-premiera,912287.html

they simply campaigning for the votes of low information low future orientation voters by promising to hand out freeeeeeee moooonnnneeeyyyyyy!!

I hope the announcement of new benefits will resonate positively with such groups as teachers, nurses, court workers and others who have demanded rises for years. E.g., I expect the teachers` strike to be really long now. :):)

it should drive off most of the swing voters that put them over before...

Centre voters were put off long time ago by PiS`s mad attitude: primitive lies and manipulation in state media, including neobolshevik propaganda of success, attack on independent judiciary, conflict with the EU, frauds and corruption, general incompetence. The only thing they seem to be able to do is giving away money.

It is quite ironic that someone who supposedly despised the SU and the Communists is so quick to copy their power structure.

Not only this, they have copied a lot of things from communists, that is why they are considered neobolsheviks by me and many other decent guys.
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
24 Feb 2019  #105
It is quite ironic that someone who supposedly despised the SU and the Communists is so quick to copy their power structure.

Is it? Those structures has no changed since communist times. Zero surprises here.

Any party that has been in power failed to change/build anew a state and power structures. All they did was use it to their advantage. PiS is not doing anything new or unique.

re considered neobolsheviks by me and many other decent guys.@ pawian

Anyone who supports PO is not a decent dude unless he is a bona fide moron.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  24 Feb 2019  #106
Now, you have to change that PO into EC, European Coalition. :):):) Those guys are a new entity which is able to remove PiS from power. Let`s pray for their success. I hope you still remember the words of Polish prayer.

BTW, you still haven`t told me why you reacted so emotionally and abused me when I mentioned that one of important members of PiS was a communist prosecutor who oppressed anticommunist activists in 1980s.

Second BTW, did you hear it has been recently found out that another prominent PiS member was a mole employed by communist secret service? And that PiS covered him for decades?
Tacitus 2 | 803    
24 Feb 2019  #107
Those structures has no changed since communist times.

Except there were no attempts to subvert the democratic power structure. The power resided with politicians who openly stood for election. PiS deceived many voters by promising that their candidates for president and PM would be independent from JK, because they knew many would otherwise not vote for them, due to JK's unpopularity.

All differences regarding actual PiS policies aside, it is nothing short of bizarre that the true leader of Poland did not stand for general election. It is unworthy of a country that takes pride in being a democracy.
Spike31 2 | 699    
  24 Feb 2019  #108
In Germany, Angela Merkel stayed in power for 19 consecutive years since the year 2000 (only Vladimir Putin can match her record). And she would probably ruled for another decade or so if not for "refugee" crisis.

And, since the role of the president of Germany is purely decorative, she had a total political monopoly and all the power in her hands.

Why don't you admit that it's not the "state of democracy" nor "rule of law" is the main concern about Polish politics but the fact that Germany is losing its political influence in Poland?
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
24 Feb 2019  #109
European Coalition. :):):) Those guys are a new entity which is able to remove PiS from power.

Sure, they are brand new like you. The same rotten context in a new box. Indeed they are able after a long training and preparation to walk and chew a gum at the same time a whooping success on the world scale.

Except there were no attempts to subvert the democratic power structure.

I'm not sure what do you mean by 'subvert' if you use as a synonym of overthrow or dissolve democracy.

Regardless, there is nothing much that can be overthrown. The way institutions were subverted before PiS might be different but not less crooked. The only difference is that before people in power succumbed to Germany whereas PiS don't.

Last but not least any foreign country shouldn't butt in into internal Polish affair - that is the crux of the matter.
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
24 Feb 2019  #110
Do you also agree that Poland should stay out of the affairs of other countries?
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
24 Feb 2019  #111
Last but not least any foreign country shouldn't butt in into internal Polish affair - that is the crux of the matter.

It doesn`t work as long as Poland is a member of the EU. When it leaves, due to PiS`s ignorance and stupidity, you can demand it to be followed.
Tacitus 2 | 803    
25 Feb 2019  #112
In Germany, Angela Merkel stayed in power for 19 consecutive years since the year 2000

Merkel has been chancellor since 2005. And she has in all those years stood for elections. There were never any attempts to deceive the voters about her influence.

And she would probably ruled for another decade or so if not for "refugee" crisis.

Well, she did a terrific job before that, and it is worth remembering that her approval ratings went through the roof in early 2015 when she brokered Minsk II. There is nothing wrong with reelecting a popular and successful politician as long as it happens democratically. The problem is not that JK is still the most powerful politician in Poland, his lack of honesty is. He should have run for PM or president in 2015, instead he chose 2 puppets because he knew that PiS would struggle with him. Yet those two politicians who were elected by the Polish people are still following his orders. He is more like Putin who made a puppet president when the constitution banned him from another term, though perhaps even more egregious because he has no formal position within the government.

And, since the role of the president of Germany is purely decorative, she had a total political monopoly and all the power in her hands.

Far from it. The power of the German chancellor has several checks and balances, mostly through the federal nature of the political structure. She also shared power with a coalition partner.

In short, there are no similarities parallels between Merkel and JK.
Spike31 2 | 699    
  25 Feb 2019  #113
Merkel has been chancellor since 2005.

Yes, correction: she's a been a leader of CDU since the year 2000 and a chancellor since 2005.

And she has in all those years stood for elections

Same as with PiS in Poland. They won the general elections and gained a majority in the Parliament.

There were never any attempts to deceive the voters about her influence.

Neither with PiS. Polish voters knew exactly who they're voting for. Kaczynski and PiS were like Steve Jobs and the Apple - everyone knew who is the leader and the spiritus movens of the party.

As a side note: I voted for a National Movement, yet I do accept the results of the democratic elections.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Movement_(Poland)

Far from it. The power of the German chancellor has several checks and balances, mostly through the federal nature of the political structure

So did she ask anyone for permission when she let in 1.5 million of "refugees" [many of them without any papers] to Germany? Why didn't any of those "checks and balances" work during that disastrous situation?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,658    
25 Feb 2019  #114
So did she ask anyone for permission when she let in 1.5 million of "refugees" [many of them without any papers] to Germany?

As if you care what happens to Germany....please stop your crocodiles tears...you called it a "wasteland"!
Ziemowit 12 | 3,201    
25 Feb 2019  #115
I voted for a National Movement

Does such a body exist in Poland? If so, from which list did their candidates start to the Sejm in the last election?
Spike31 2 | 699    
25 Feb 2019  #116
It does exist. It's a political alliance of [real] right wing parties and political organisations such as ONR, MW and UPR. Currently it forms a base for ProPolish Coalition that is: RN+KORWIN +Braun+Godek+Skuteczni

In the last election their candidate R. Winnicki started from Kukiz15. Now he is a non-attached MP, a leader of National Movement and of the leaders of ProPolish coalition.

It's worth noting that a KORWIN party has also took part in both general election and the EU parliament elections and placed 2 MP's in the EU parliament. Leader of a Korwin party is a member of ProPolish coalition.
Tacitus 2 | 803    
25 Feb 2019  #117
Polish voters knew exactly who they're voting

And yet both the candidates for PM and President assured the voters that they would be independent from JK. Instead they are his pawns. If people had no problem voting for JK he should have run for office.

Why didn't any of those "checks and balances" work during that disastrous situation?

Because the German parliament, the German government and the German public believed this to be the right decision. And it was in hindsight the best option in a bad situation.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  25 Feb 2019  #118
Polish voters knew exactly who they're voting for. Kaczynski and PiS - everyone knew who is the leader and the spiritus movens of the party.

Not exactly. In 2015 PiS applied the so called policy of love - e.g, controvercial politicians were ordered to shut up. Radical Macierewicz wasn`t to become the Defence Minister, PiS lied that mild Gowin was their candidate.

rp.pl/Polityka/151009658-Gowin-kandydatem-na-ministra-obrony.html

They are trying to use the same method now. E,g, suddenly, after 3 years of brawls, PiS began to love the EU. Also, those most primitive or aggressive PiS members got a ban on public appearances. I hope voters won`t let PiS take them for a ride again.

newsweek.pl/polska/zabawa-w-chowanego-pawlowicz-i-tarczynski-ofiarami-cenzury-w-pis/jpwcpy2
Ziemowit 12 | 3,201    
  25 Feb 2019  #119
In the last election their candidate R. Winnicki started from Kukiz15. Now he is a non-attached MP,

One nationalist in the 460-seat Polish Sejm (who has crawled up in there on the back of rock musician Paweł Kukiz) is not too many!

suddenly, after 3 years of brawls, PiS began to love the EU.

Beata Szydło who ordered to remove EU flags from government buildings when she was PM now wants to become a European MP. Absolutely ridiculous! [Do you remember her:'The name is Szydło. Beata Szydło'?]

I hope voters won`t let PiS take them for a ride again.

I'm afraid they will. Soon after PiS has announced their bombastic programme of giving away money to the public (voters), they stand a good chance for achieving that goal. Another thing is they have copied the scheme from the opposition PO programme. I say, Our Dear Leader Chairman Jarosław Kaczyński has again proved to be king of the marionettes!
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  26 Feb 2019  #120
Beata Szydło who ordered to remove EU flags from government buildings when she was PM now wants to become a European MP.

Their hypocrisy is disgusting. I don`t remember that James Bond imitation but sth else: We deserved those bonuses!!! after it was revealed her ministers had received large sums of money for nothing.

Soon after PiS has announced their bombastic programme of giving away money to the public (voters), they stand a good chance for achieving that goal.

Let`s be optimists. :):) United pro European opposition is expected to win the coming EU elections because people fear Polexit made by mad PiS. New benefits won`t change voters` preferences who have already become aware of PiS`s anti-European agenda. More and more people realise that PiS are useful idiots who are pushing Poland back into Kremlin grip.


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