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'Fort Trump' Military Base in Poland


Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
30 Sep 2018  #211
Frankly spoken, if the place of the base really is of no bigger importance, there is no military need for a "Fort Trump" in Poland at all....that leaves only a political one...
G (undercover)    
30 Sep 2018  #212
It's of no big importance operationally speaking. It's a geo-political thing of course.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
30 Sep 2018  #213
Which geo-political thing exactly?

Poland is already a NATO member with it's own army plus NATO deployments on it's soil. What else could there be? What would a "Fort Trump" in western Poland change?
G (undercover)    
30 Sep 2018  #214
Poland is already a NATO member

LOL ! The whole NATO thing is full or parasites and Trojan horses.

Let's say it's AD 2025, there are some "troubles" between Poland and Russia and the Russians are starting massing the troops in western Belarus. So Poland call NATO for help. What happens ? The most realistic scenario:

Belgium: uhmm what we really need is... peace... and... and you won't achieve that deploying tanks... (besides they don't have a signle friggin tank ! Seriously, go and check)

Italy: let's not forget that the main issue are refugees, the cold war is over, now NATO must face other threats
Hungary: yes, we must help our brothers !!11 (and all they can send is about 1 friggin battalion)
Germany: Poland is a member of NATO, there's no doubt about it but we need more dialog with Russia. Only dialog can solve this problem.

next +20 similar speeches...
and here comes the only voice that really matters:
USA: big question mark - average Joes over there are tired of the whole NATO thing, they see Europe as the defense parasite (can't blame them for that) and often have no clue what's the diff between Holland and Poland. If you add to that homo like reactions of many European countries, there's no guarantee they will lift a finger.

With the permanent presence in Poland, they will become automatically involved, If they like it or not. That's what the whole thing is about.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
30 Sep 2018  #215
Pessimist! :)

But your hypothetical situation is not a really one. As long as Russia is only gathering troops like...say...for a maneuver, there is nothing even "Fort Trump" can and would do, besides maybe ordering some military excercise on their part too. There won't be any other involvement.

(A similiar situation already happened in the recent years as in NATO deployments reacting to russian actions).

A serious question here asking for a serious answer: Do you really believe that Russia will attack and invade Poland?
delphiandomine 85 | 17,658    
30 Sep 2018  #216
With the permanent presence in Poland, they will become automatically involved, If they like it or not. That's what the whole thing is about.

Of course, they could elect to stay in the barracks and stay out of it. Russia doesn't need or want large swathes of Poland, but they do want a land corridor to Kaliningrad. Securing that would severe NATO's land link, and with Finland and Sweden neutral, it would push the Baltics into a clear policy of Finlandization, which would be a win for Russia.

I find it difficult to believe that the Americans would support war with Russia over a 60km strip of land in the middle of nowhere.
G (undercover)    
30 Sep 2018  #217
Pessimist! :)

Not at all, after Crimea, some things were "tested" and the outcome was more or less as described.

As long as Russia is only gathering troops

How do you know they are "only gathering troops" - will you wait till first shots are fired ? Somehow western Germans wouldn't have been too happy if the US, UK and others adopted that approach during the cold war.

there is nothing even "Fort Trump" can and would do

There's a damn lot of that. It places on the Russian side responsibility for potentially triggering off the WW3 and they are not really dreaming about it. Any Russian leader thinking seriously about something, which might bring open confrontation with US, will get poisoned (or "accidented") by their own people: generals, oligarchs etc.

Do you really believe that Russia will attack and invade Poland?

Not much but there are other "scenerios".

1. They might collaps the financial markets here just massing the troops along the borders and making some "hawkish" speeches. If you add to that half assed reaction of NATO... would you be willing to buy Polish bonds then ?

2. Quick, limited "Georgia style" intervention. Why ? "Victory over NATO" - that would be Crimea X 100 on the "domestic market". - that's the reason why I personally believe that unless NATO becomes at least 10% of it was during the cold war, we should just leave this mess. It's better to declare neutrality than to be in ineffecive alliance, 39 comes to mind.

I can't imagine any full scale NATO-Russia (or rather US-Russia) conflict but I won't be surprised If one day I wake up and hear that Russians took Estonia over night. That's the thing, with NATO turned into some metrosexual discussion club, you can achieve that without starting the real full scale conflict.

Of course, they could elect to stay in the barracks and stay out of it.

Just like US dudes in South Korea could "elect" to stay out if it If Kim invades... From now on, I am ignoring your "input" here, it's a waste of time.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,658    
30 Sep 2018  #218
Clearly for all your "expertise", you know nothing about what happens in these actual situations.

Is there oil or other significant natural resources worth something? Will American mothers want their children used as cannon fodder to defend Poland? Or will they fall back to the Odra and reinforce it to prevent the war spreading?

There is absolutely no reason for America to get involved, especially as Russia will have seized control and neutralised the Suwałki corridor in the time it takes them to wake up.
G (undercover)    
30 Sep 2018  #219
Why don't you focus on teaching kids ? You have no clue to the point there's no way to even replay to your "comment". You could as well write there "ughh ! ughh !".
delphiandomine 85 | 17,658    
30 Sep 2018  #220
Greggy, Greggy, focus on the post, not on the poster.
G (undercover)    
30 Sep 2018  #221
What can I say about the post ? The whole "Suwałki corridor" is a media nonsense. And Yanks, if you like them or not, will never run away as that would destroy their "strategic image" and ruin their alliances for decades. Russians and Americans just put their flags across the globe and the other side don't move into a territory that has the presence of the opponent. There's nearly 50 years of the cold war to back it up.

While NATO by itself is not any real guarantee anymore. They made a joke out of it, even added Albania...
OP johnny reb 16 | 3,136    
2 Oct 2018  #222
What would a "Fort Trump" in western Poland change?

Germany has repeatedly become a military power which we are seeing Germany in charge of Europe again.
A rearmed Germany will become one of the United States biggest nightmares.
Even after WW2 when President Roosevelt and Churchill vowed never to let Germany rearm again it would be very easy for Germany to do today.

Throw in the new Nord Stream 2 Pipeline and it becomes very clear what a Fort Trump would change in western Poland.
Poland's prime minister has warned that this pipeline will make Ukraine's gas pipeline system obsolete which would allow Russian troops to march into the interior of Ukraine and dig in.

Do you have to ask what a Fort Trump would change if Russia was knocking on Poland's back door.
The U.S.A. has offered little support to Ukraine which makes many Eastern Europeans trust in Germany to defend Ukraine from Putin.
Those trusting Germany to protect Ukraine should remember just 90 years ago Germans weapons manufacturer Gustav Krupp made a deal with Stalin which led to the starvation of 7 million Ukrainians, the end of German democracy and the rise of Hitler.

Poland should more then welcome a Fort Trump.
Tacitus 2 | 860    
2 Oct 2018  #223
which makes many Eastern Europeans trust in Germany to defend Ukraine from Putin.

Germany is under no obligation to defend the Ukraine militarily. The Ukraine is not part of Nato, nor has Germany - unlike the USA, UK and France - signed a guarantee for its' borders. Berlin has supported the Ukraine because it is a fellow European country and thus the violation it suffered by Russia is a dangerous precedent. But never did we promise them active military protection. If the Ukrainians ever feel let down, they should direct their anger towards those who failed to live up to their promise (USA, UK, France).

None of what you said has anything to do with a hypothetical "Fort Trump" though. This Fort will not defend the Ukraine, and Poland is covered by a lot of different defensive agreements.
TheWizard - | 241    
2 Oct 2018  #224
Yes Ukraine has not escaped Russia's claws yet. They gave up the only bargaining chip they had at the very start. Obviously Russia is not a country you give up weapons to because it promises something. Now all this time later we see the result.

Secondly they in uki land haven't learned that Germans were never their friends, rather their death. How silly. So now in 2018 i see what resembles nazi flags still being used in their symbols. That will help them by calming Russia. Lol.

They haven't grown up, its not a country.
OP johnny reb 16 | 3,136    
2 Oct 2018  #225
None of what you said has anything to do with a hypothetical "Fort Trump" though. This Fort will not defend the Ukraine

That is not what I said.
I said,

Poland's prime minister has warned that this pipeline will make Ukraine's gas pipeline system obsolete

Once established and fortified in Ukraine Poland would be very grateful to have a Fort Trump at that point one would think.
With Russia knocking on one border and Germany on the other you bet a Fort Trump would be Poland's only hope.
The recent publicity of Charlemagne and the Imperial Crown demonstrates the rise of the Holy Roman Empire that nobody here wants to talk about.
The game plan is coming together very nicely for Germany's seventh and last rise.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
2 Oct 2018  #226
A rearmed Germany will become one of the United States biggest nightmares.

A good reason not to force the "2%" on them...but to support their mounting de-militarization, won't you agree?

The U.S.A. has offered little support to Ukraine which makes many Eastern Europeans trust in Germany to defend Ukraine from Putin.

No...Ukraine is f****. That's also the reason it won't be a member of NATO and EU anytime soon...

The red line is Polands eastern border...not Ukraine...

This Fort will not defend the Ukraine, and Poland is covered by a lot of different defensive agreements.

Right. A "Fort Trump" won't help Ukraine either...build in western Poland it won't make one jota difference for Ukraine and the Russians. They know the red line too...

The game plan is coming together very nicely for Germany's seventh and last rise.

Why would the seventh be the last one?

Have you reading "The Trumpet"? Are you a believer of the PCOG? Really? :)
TheWizard - | 241    
2 Oct 2018  #227
Yep, eastern Poland is the red line. The Ukraine is just really trying to build a nation, this makes them weak for Russia. If Ruski can keep interfering and keep Uki economy and currency garbage like it is now there will be less and less western interest in it. Add to this the unhelpful symbolism from some nationalists, corruption from hell and what i see as confusion as to ones national identity and ukiland is ripe for Russia to stick another straw in and start sucking even harder. ( insert slurping sound here).
OP johnny reb 16 | 3,136    
3 Oct 2018  #228
Have you reading "The Trumpet"?

Nope, I have been reading and studying Revelations in the Holy Bible.
All this was prophesized thousands of years ago.
It is just prophesy coming true isn't it.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
3 Oct 2018  #229
Only for believers....

And the Bible mentions Germany where exactly? What is the Bible telling about the six rises before the seventh and last one? God using it to punish the Israrelites...come on!

You know...that's all interpretation and you have a really hard core believer to think they are talking about modern Germany.

It's abit like Crowie talking about the Sarmatians! :)
Chemikiem 5 | 1,480    
3 Oct 2018  #230
Have you reading "The Trumpet"?

Yes he has. Almost all of his post # 222 is from this link:-

thetrumpet.com/17677-germany-and-russias-secret-genocide

I don't like to see people passing off other peoples ideas as their own, it is plagiarism, and Johnny does this all the time. He is the king of copy/paste.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
3 Oct 2018  #231
I KNEW IT!!!!

It's so crazy stuff...The Trumpet founder was even to crazy for his own church so they disowned him...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Church_of_God
cms neuf - | 770    
3 Oct 2018  #232
One thing that worries me about Trump is that whatever comes next might be worse :) i dont know how many Americans have these whackjob religious views but extrapolating from my facebook friends it could be 50 million !
OP johnny reb 16 | 3,136    
3 Oct 2018  #233
Trump did not come up with this, it was President Duda that suggested to Trump to build Fort Trump not the other way around.

it could be 50 million !

Many many more then that cms.

I don't like to see people passing off other peoples ideas

I don't like people that make up lies about me posting under different names.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,091    
3 Oct 2018  #234
thetrumpet

Never heard of the trumpet but im half way through the article and havent found any inconsistencies yet..

Ahhh nvm here comes the prophecising.. damn it was for the most part a good article

Moscow's order, the German Communist Party pronounced the Social Democrats 'enemy No. 1,' drove a significant proportion of the workers into the Nazis' arms, split the vote of democratic and socialist forces, and contributed to Hitler's triumph at the polls in 1932" (Pariahs, Partners, Predators: German-Soviet Relations, 1922-1941).

And whaddaya know, social democrats are still enemy number one with merkel the biggest threat to polands and the rest of europes unity and security
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
3 Oct 2018  #235
I don't understand Dirk, because the Moscow and german Commies declared the german social democrats their enemy #1 they are now the biggest threat to Poland the rest of Europe?

Where is the sense in that?

Shouldn't it be the other way around? The enemy of the commies is my friend?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,091    
3 Oct 2018  #236
They, meaning spd and csu/cdu union/grand coalition whos de facto leader is merkel supported bringing in millions of migrants to germany and europe and as a result weve had an enormous increase in terrorism, crime, rapes etc aimxe 2015 and europe is more divided than ever as a result. If schengen is ever eliminated or the eu project ends it will because of the big divide on migrants. Had they not agreed to accept tons of third worlders back in 2015 we wouldnt have this disunity in the eu today nor the countless terror attacks, cars driving into crowds, rapes, murders by newly arrived migrants, etc
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
3 Oct 2018  #237
That was Merkels lone decision and she is the leader of the CDU (or what's left of it)....

Remember chancellor Willy Brandts famous "kneefall" in Warsaw? SPD!

Declaring the SPD your enemy helps only the commies...again!
OP johnny reb 16 | 3,136    
5 Oct 2018  #238
In defense of Germany Bratwurst Boy..... I just read an article today about the cost differences in what Trump wants to sell LP gas to Germany for and what Russia is selling it to Germany for.

I was surprise to learn that Trump wants to sell it for 30% more.
Never did I realize there was that much of a difference.
When you are talking BILLIONS of dollars I guess I may have to look at this a little harder not to be so bias on the subject.

I ask myself if Trump would pay someone 30% more if he had a supplier that would sell it for 30% less. Hmmm
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
5 Oct 2018  #239
...a normal business leader would try to make his offer more attractive to a possible new customer. But Trump is now president of the United States, he believes he has much better means now at his proposal to force his offer onto a customer. That is scary.

I'm counting the time Germany makes itself independent from the raw resources traders...like Saudi Arabia...Russia...and now Trump.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,091    
5 Oct 2018  #240
ask myself if Trump would pay someone 30% more if he had a supplier that would sell it for 30% less.

Yes if protection is part of the package.


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