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A devestating verdict on the Polish church


Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Dec 2010 #121
Very true, frd! The govt has chosen not to push the church away due to the money involved. Think of it this way, I-S, people have more direct contact with the church than they do with their govt or local MP. If you are a contributor to their cause, wouldn't you like to know where that money goes?
Olaf 6 | 956
23 Dec 2010 #122
I just don't like you outsiders

- Outsiders, insiders - soon there is better people, worse people, black, white, brown, etc. - As I said, this creates divisions! Where's the "love thy brethren" attitude, huh?

if you are not part of the church and you live in Poland it still does affect you

- Yes, totally. It affects everyone in Poland politically, financially, socially and legally. That's not secular Poland as in constitution (I think there is written Poland is a secular country).
Ironside 50 | 10,810
23 Dec 2010 #123
What form of human imperfection are you alluding to, I-S, and what is the relation to the chur

Well, I'm sure you know!

it still does affect you.

In what way ?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Dec 2010 #124
I can't see how my personal imperfections are any business of the church, I-S. If indeed I am aware of them, I can work them in my own way, right?
Ironside 50 | 10,810
23 Dec 2010 #125
If you are a contributor to their cause, wouldn't you like to know where that money goes?

Maybe, maybe not ....however monies for the Chruch are given on voluntary basis!

Where's the "love thy brethren" attitude, huh?

Where indeed ? Why do you ousiders are always pointing out something you are not able to grasp or understand it in a wrong way ?
I don't have to love someone whose intensions are not good !

this creates divisions!

divisions are there regardless !

business of the church,

I meant that the church are people, and people have their imperfections !
Olaf 6 | 956
23 Dec 2010 #126
however monies for the Chruch are given on voluntary basis

- Not true. If you pay taxes in Poland, you contribute to the RCC too inevitably, whether you like it or not.

divisions are there regardless !

- So creating more instead of diminishing is ok? Congrats.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Dec 2010 #127
Given on a voluntary basis, exactly. Why, I-S? Why would you give to the church? To further what end?

Priests have their imperfections too, spot on. So you are investing in what exactly?
frd 7 | 1,399
23 Dec 2010 #128
In what way ?

Olaf's already answered in how many ways in the long run. And small details? I can add that every Pole while growing up has Catholic Religion classes in school, is pretty much surrounded by crosses. Every person has got catholic friends and family members.

And whatever your religion and point of view is you are gonna live your life being affected these people and therefore by religion. There's always gonna be pressure from those around you. I can't image how could one live in a catholic country and not be affected by catholicism.

By the way I'm not saying Polish religion is bad, I'm not saying beliefs of Poles are bad, tradition is very important. I've been to catholic funeral, I've been to an atheist funeral - the only thing that is more sad than atheist funeral is probably atheist wedding. The tradition that is following catholic religion in Poland is huge and makes these celebrations grand and unforgetting.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Dec 2010 #129
the nationalists

The Nationalists are not patriots. Sometimes some people think that Nationalism is another way of saying about Patriotism. NO! ... In my way of looking at it, the nationalists are people who use the sense of patriotism in their favor to pass on with their own ideologies which take the shape of fanaticism.

Patriotism is loving ones country, culture and beauty. Nationalism is a political ideology which promotes racism, facism and a stupid superiority complex!

About the Church: Useless and complete failure for its main purpose. A place where people visit for nothing more than very materialistic and selfish purposes. No real love for the Palestinian Carpenter with low socio-economic background, who spoke Aramic (primitive version of Arabic - he didnt even speak proper hebrew, the language of the well to do Jews). My heart goes out in respect towards Jesus Christ ... but feels grieved on how be became a political toy for some who used his name for their own ulterior motives.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Dec 2010 #130
A very well-written post, £ódź :) You have summed it up in a nutshell :)
Ironside 50 | 10,810
23 Dec 2010 #131
Why, I-S? Why would you give to the church? To further what end?

to support an institusion which promotes goodness and the truth :)

I can't image how could one live in a catholic country and not be affected by catholicism.

See, it a good thing. You could live in muslim country and pretend to be muslim.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Dec 2010 #132
Goodness? You should watch the QI debates and listen to Stephen Fry/Chris Hitchins and see just how good they are ;) ;)

The truth of what? They are but one religious organisation with one set of beliefs. Belief is not truth, I-S. Simple point!
Bzibzioh
23 Dec 2010 #133
About the Church: Useless and complete failure for its main purpose. A place where people visit for nothing more than very materialistic and selfish purposes.

Boat, you missed ... the boat. I disagree with you completely.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Dec 2010 #134
I disagree with you completely.

But I can prove it. First tell me which part of Poland do you live in?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Dec 2010 #135
From the outside looking in ;)
cheehaw 2 | 263
23 Dec 2010 #136
a political toy

~

In what way ?

If you want to lay down in the middle of the street and close your eyes, I'd be happy to show you.
Ironside 50 | 10,810
23 Dec 2010 #137
Not true. If you pay taxes in Poland, you contribute to the RCC

not true !

So creating more instead of diminishing

Well, you are looking for a fault anyway, you can always finds something, I call it bi'ching !

They are but one religious organisation with one set of beliefs. Belief is not truth, I-S. Simple point!

the truth as it gets, simple point !
z_darius 14 | 3,968
23 Dec 2010 #138
Funny - when people use gossip and suppositions against the people who thrive on it, they seem to complain and howl. It's the exact same reason that Palikot has so much fun winding up Kaczynski supporters - they like to spread nonsense, but they can't stand when the nonsense is used against them.

That doesn't make the "large flat" argument any stronger, so I consider that the nonsense.
trener zolwia 1 | 940
23 Dec 2010 #139
Nationalism is a political ideology which promotes racism, facism and a stupid superiority complex!

Don't be absurd.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
23 Dec 2010 #140
Patriotism is loving ones country, culture and beauty. Nationalism is a political ideology which promotes racism, facism and a stupid superiority complex!

That's a great distinction, Lodz.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,385
23 Dec 2010 #141
It's chicken sh*it!

Any patriotism is called by lefties nationalism anyhow....
Bzibzioh
23 Dec 2010 #142
Any patriotism is called by lefties nationalism anyhow....

yep, a beer for this nice gentleman!!
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Dec 2010 #144
Any patriotism is called by lefties nationalism anyhow

yep, a beer for this nice gentleman!!

Yes, this is due ofcourse. Sit in some German bar having beer and then lick those chicken shyte.

Because, not any "patriotism" is known as nationalism. I am not an ultra-liberal either. However, I just happen to practice balance - and balance is what keeps feelings from becoming extreme (and anything extreme looses its form and becomes something else. Nationalism is not patriotism - it is something else).
Bzibzioh
23 Dec 2010 #145
Sit in some German bar having beer

You never know, I'm going to Germany next year :)

I am not an ultra-liberal

Since when?
trener zolwia 1 | 940
23 Dec 2010 #146
That's a great distinction, Lodz.

:s This is what a great distinction looks like:

Any patriotism is called by lefties nationalism anyhow....

Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Dec 2010 #147
Since when?

Since I started to know the world. What makes you think about me being an ultra liberal? ... Yes I have liberal views, also some conservative views. I like some ideas of capitalism while I appreciate some socialist values aswell.

Racism has no place in a civilized person's life, because it makes your world constrained. Thoughts become blurred, and mind becomes programmed. It stops one from a complete realization of his/her potentials as a human being.

Extremism in any condition takes a human away from being humane. A human who is not humane is not a human. While a human who forgets some barriers to being humane again, leaves being humane and is a retraintless liquid without shape of meaning. So ... an optimal point is necessary. And all this is not as complicated as one might think...

Life can be good, if we let it be.

I'm going to Germany next year :)

Good for you. I am sure there must be some good people there aswell. People who are respectful of others, and who regret their past thoroughly, not just by words by with good deeds.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Dec 2010 #148
I-S, it still isn't the universal truth at all. You need more than that to validate your case.
Bzibzioh
23 Dec 2010 #149
Racism has no place in a civilized person's life, because it makes your world constrained.

Real racism is waste of time so I don't bother with that. However oftentimes accusation of racism is overused so the meaning got cheap and is almost useless.

A human who is not humane is not a human.

Thanks for the lecture, Grandpa.

I am sure there must be some good people there aswell.

That's very patronizing.
Oh, and I'm not going to check on remorsefulness of German people; I'm going to see my family's castle ... yep, I've got one of those :)
trener zolwia 1 | 940
23 Dec 2010 #150
A human who is not humane is not a human.

You're really pulling out the childish idiocy today. Where'd you learn this one, in kindergarten? :s What are humans if not human? Turtles?? Just stop with the stupid Lib platitudes...


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