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A devestating verdict on the Polish church


OP sobieski 107 | 2,128
23 Dec 2010 #151
In the case of the church we are talking only about human imperfaction - whats new ?

Only the Polish church seems to be perfect. No pedophile priests in this country. What a relief.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Dec 2010 #152
They just hid the register, sobieski :)
OP sobieski 107 | 2,128
23 Dec 2010 #153
Anyway as a compensation they have geothermal energy in Toruń :))))))
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Dec 2010 #154
Real racism is waste of time so I don't bother with that. However oftentimes accusation of racism is overused so the meaning got cheap and is almost useless.

If you know what is real racism, then why do you worry about accusations? ... Why should you be accused, unless you display hurtful hatred or activity. Do not be hurtful to another. It doesnt need to be someone colored. Maybe sometimes terms are misplaced ... but when hurtful things happen, they are equally unacceptable. Specially when some people measure others in terms of color and origins of ethnicity or other things over which they didnt have any control on - and neither did you.

Thanks for the lecture, Grandpa.

Its not a lecture ... its a thought to be placed on a forum. I do not like to say things I do not believe in, or just to throw trash around for no reason.

've got one of those

nice...good for you.

Turtles?

No ... turtles are much more dignified. They are faithful to their purpose mostly.

When humans stop being humane, they are something worse.

Take this, something not from a Kindergarten: People are mostly dynamic. They either rise and keep rising in their goodness...or fall and keep falling. We need to choose a direction, and no matter how slow we rise, its still a positive direction.

Its something life taught me, and I learn from other people's experiences aswell.
OP sobieski 107 | 2,128
23 Dec 2010 #155
Still... why the nationalists, antisemitists, religionists, smolenskists...lunar twin fans...Dmowski-ites...(one club in the end) did not answer to Father Wiśniewski's accusations?

It has to be hard...to deny what he is telling...
Or is it ?
Where are the fanatic religionists?
frd 7 | 1,399
24 Dec 2010 #156
Bratwurst Boy:
Any patriotism is called by lefties nationalism anyhow....

yep, a beer for this nice gentleman!!

Any doubt is called leftism by nationalists.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
24 Dec 2010 #157
Where are the fanatic religionists?

It's the usual story - when someone in the Church says something that they don't want to hear, they ignore it. Same with the cross scenario - they refused to accept the authority of almost everyone because it didn't agree with their agenda.

Yet, they call themselves Catholic. They make me sick.
Ironside 50 | 10,810
24 Dec 2010 #158
Only the Polish church seems to be perfect. No pedophile priests in this country. What a relief.

Well, look into Belgium, plenty of pedophiles there, and not only among clergy. Some citizens as a sport have taken to keep children in their cellars to satisfy their perverted needs !

National trait ?

I-S, it still isn't the universal truth at all. You need more than that to validate your case.

Well, it is universal enough! Look for perfection and you will find nothing !
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Dec 2010 #159
The truth, I-S? You are implying only one and that can't be based on numerous, co-existing belief systems. That's the problem with the RCC, it's too self-righteous. Hardly renowned for its demure.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
24 Dec 2010 #160
The lack of bad priests in Poland points to the problem being cultural, not necessarily clergical.
Ironside 50 | 10,810
24 Dec 2010 #161
That's the problem with the RCC, it's too self-righteous. Hardly renowned for its demure.

What is the problem with the RCC? That they say - we are the best ? What should they do ?
Talk about a many truths ? What would be the point then ?
Olaf 6 | 956
24 Dec 2010 #162
Belief is not truth,

- Very true! I'm glad you wrote that. Either you KNOW or you BELIEVE. This is fundamental difference between believers [in anything, even spaghetti monster]

Aramic (primitive version of Arabic

Aramaic. Not primitive version of Arabic, different language, precedessor of Hebrew and Arabic. But apart from this linguistic bit - I really liked what you wrote. Thanks.

A place where people visit for nothing more than very materialistic and selfish purposes.

- as one said: They gather once a week to compare clothing. :)

Yet, they call themselves Catholic. They make me sick.

- Maybe this is today's version of a Catholic? I know decent ones, really but vast majority is not even close to the ideals they supposedly cherish.
Bzibzioh
24 Dec 2010 #163
Belief is not truth

Either you KNOW or you BELIEVE.

If you can prove it - it’s science, not faith.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
24 Dec 2010 #164
faith

Faith without credibility or validity is blind-faith/superstition
kondzior 12 | 1,196
24 Dec 2010 #165
You either have a blind faith or hve no faith at all.
The point is, as far as religion is concerned, one need to ignore all the irrelevant, earthly science. Don't look after any proofs, just have faith.
Bzibzioh
24 Dec 2010 #166
Faith without credibility or validity is blind-faith/superstition

That's what faith is all about: it should be blind by definition.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
24 Dec 2010 #167
Father Wiśniewski's critique may be a thought-provoking stimulus aimed at helping the Church get its act together. Assuming that his remarks were sincere and that he wasn't put up to it by someone. Au contraire, Gazeta Wyborcza - its feigned solicitide over the Church resembles that of Trybuna Ludu's -- so concerned about the Polish Church becoming more trendy and progresssive like that of Western Europe.... Luckily under Hlond, Wyszyński and Glemp, the Church stayed on course and still enjoys a position of authority in Poland. Sure it has problems. We are not a church of angels, B16 said recently. Rather than sweeping controversies under the rug (like Michnik does about in reference to his Stalinist family roots), let's hope the problems are weeded out the Church can more effectively perform its mission of evangelisation.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
24 Dec 2010 #168
Au contraire, Gazeta Wyborcza - its feigned solicitide over the Church resembles that of Trybuna Ludu's -- so concerned about the Polish Church becoming more trendy and progresssive like that of Western Europe..

Perhaps you might want to look at what's been happening in Western Europe before talking. The Catholic Church is in a position of weakness in Italy, Spain and Ireland - but is in a position of relative strength in Germany and the UK. Why? Simple - the Church was forced to reform in those countries, while in the countries where they were dominant, no-one stopped their abuse of power until it was too late.

You're not in Poland, so you clearly don't see what's happening - young people are abandoning the Church in droves. Is that good for the future of the Church? No.

Luckily under Hlond, Wyszyński and Glemp, the Church stayed on course and still enjoys a position of authority in Poland.

And it is steadily losing that position through its own unwillingness to deal with the difficult problems that it has. Are you really so out of touch that you can't see this?

Rather than sweeping controversies under the rug (like Michnik does about in reference to his Stalinist family roots),

What does Michnik have to do with anything? The thread is about the Catholic Church, not Adam Michnik.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
24 Dec 2010 #169
it should be blind by definition.

No ... that is how faith is sometimes misinterpreted :)

Not primitive version of Arabic, different language, precedessor of Hebrew and Arabic.

But Hebrew was already there when Jesus spoke Aramaic. Arabic was not there through. Thus logically it should be the predecessor of Aramaic isnt it? By the way Jesus was not believed to be a descendant of David by the Jews due to his features which resembled the lower section of people (he was as much an Arabic low income carpenter as it could get). I've got good deal of investigation there to come up with this.

Its a semitic language which is said by some researchers to be the predecessor of Hebrew too, but as Hebrew was there and Arabic was not there - so you see, got my point? By the way I read a good research trying to prove just this and it sounded pretty logical. Also, it did not have any religious sentiments working to make a biased point aswell! Lol!

Come to think of it ... the Blonde Jesus potraits we sometimes see is nothing but a fake. I cant help think if actually one of those who beat Jesus would have looked as one of the "Jesus Euro-Potraits" we paint of him. That would be quite a grave joke!
OP sobieski 107 | 2,128
25 Dec 2010 #170
I read today that the Army Bishop (I passed the Army Cathedral last week when he got his cushy job, what a concentration of Army bigwhigs and Church purple) told that that being Catholic is not a private affair. He seems to have missed the Age of Enlightenment, because I grew up with the very idea that your religious beliefs are your private business.

The arrogance emanating from somebody who symbolizes the arrogance of the Polish church is still breathtaking. Of course he did not mention the Polish kowtowing to the Yanks in Afghanistan. That is perfectly religiously acceptable.

I also saw in our Flemish TV news the archbishop in Saint Michael's Cathedral in Brussels in his midnight homily talking about the sexual abuse by priests. And encouraging the faithful to go to the authorities in such cases. Could you ever in Poland imagine Glemp doing that? Or the Geothermal Manager talking about this on his radio station?

What a contrast.
Ironside 50 | 10,810
25 Dec 2010 #171
I also saw in our Flemish TV news the archbishop in Saint Michael's Cathedral in Brussels in his midnight homily talking about the sexual abuse by priests

There you go, not only you have a problem due to specific Belgian trait, but also Enlighten Flemish Church is full of perverts, only they were interested in a such modern church, congrats!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
26 Dec 2010 #172
So - if modernisation results in child abuse, how can you explain the sexual abuse cases in the Irish church, which hasn't modernised?

Let's face it- it's only the Church's influence in Poland that's stopped sex abuse cases here from becoming public. That, and the existence of some unfavourable laws towards the media.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
26 Dec 2010 #173
Seanus wrote:

That's the problem with the RCC, it's too self-righteous.

wouldn't you be if for 2000 years you got away with absolutely everything imaginable?

Ironside wrote:

What is the problem with the RCC? That they say - we are the best ?

that wouldn't be unique to the RCC, that would summarize "religion" in general, for every religion along with their believers think their religion is "the best".

delphiandomine wrote:

young people are abandoning the Church in droves. Is that good for the future of the Church? No.

good for humanity? Yes.

lodz the boat wrote:

(he was as much an Arabic low income carpenter as it could get

anyone that can turn water into wine and part seas, walk on water......it's hard to classify such a man as "poor". i'd assume that if he got hungry, he could turn a rock into a loaf of bread as well.

lodz the boat wrote:

Come to think of it ... the Blonde Jesus potraits we sometimes see is nothing but a fake.

there you go! now you're on the right track!
George8600 10 | 637
26 Dec 2010 #174
To all the people calling Jesus an arab, you realize that with this logic Jews (including the modern ones whom claim to be descendant of the settlers of Israel) are arabs as well?
convex 20 | 3,978
26 Dec 2010 #175
Depending on which definition you use, they are indeed. Spending some time in Europe doesn't change your ancestors. They're all Semites.
ender 5 | 398
26 Dec 2010 #176
the archbishop in Saint Michael's Cathedral in Brussels in his midnight homily talking about the sexual abuse by priests

it's nothing comparing to what rabies are able to do (child molesting, death camp survivor's money fraud) and the recent human organ trading. Thanks God for Catholic Church conservatism.
OP sobieski 107 | 2,128
26 Dec 2010 #177
and the recent human organ trading

I thought these accusations were made agains the Kosovo prime minister. And Kosovo is -as afar as I know - a Muslim state ?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Dec 2010 #178
Kosovo is not a Muslim state. Many Albos are Christian (most not), as are Serbs for the most part. The allegations were made by the Council of Europe and not the RCC. Thaci was clearly a part of it as he is scum.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
26 Dec 2010 #179
if you want some example from anglican church let me know it will be my pleasure.

So - you need to attack the Anglican church to avoid accepting what Wieniewski is saying? Cute.

Perhaps you might want to worry about what's going on in Poland, rather than thinking about Anglicans.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Dec 2010 #180
And you'd say that they lead lives worthy of the utmost moral respect, ender?


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