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A devestating verdict on the Polish church


Harry
20 Dec 2010 #31
If not mind your business.

With pleasure. Now perhaps the Catholic church could be nice enough not to force its beliefs onto me and could be treated in the same manner which I am treated?
cheehaw 2 | 263
20 Dec 2010 #32
Are you Roman Catholic ? If not mind your business.

I've been ex-communicated. But yes, I was raised Catholic.

Minus the Black Virgin so common in Poland, we never did that here. have you ever met Jesus? Read the bible? if not, maybe you should mind your own business.
OP sobieski 107 | 2,128
20 Dec 2010 #33
So the religionists were only sleeping :)
Very funny that they refer to Father Wiśniewski as "this priest" and "these" accusations.
It has to be hard for them not be able to attack the author of the open letter, having a genuine anti-PRL and anti-Stasi background...

Instead they slander GW, which of course only published the letter. So could the religionists please answer Father Wiśniewski's main points? ( How hard it has to be for you Dmowski-ites not to be able to proof he is a freemason/jew/communist)
ender 5 | 398
20 Dec 2010 #34
Catholic church could be nice enough not to force its beliefs onto me and could be treated in the same manner which I am treated

No you piece of dung. You can be treated same way as I but whole church.

I've been ex-communicated.

That means you are not part of Catholic Church (possibly you not Christian anymore) go to hell, Roman-Catholic Church is not your business CLEAR?

So the religionists were only sleeping :)

Read own thread you moron, I pushed out of PF main window. There was you and other moron delph.
BTW looks like your medium knowledge of Polish language is better then you think, delphiandomine with has 'badly' Polish is even better then yours he was able to read with understanding pretty long article from szmatławiec GW within 8min. Don't tell me about Google translation here is sample he he:

List, who had just met, "Gazeta", the Dominican Father Louis Wisniewski sent in September to the Vatican representative in Poland.

cheehaw 2 | 263
20 Dec 2010 #35
go to hell

funny thing, I have been to hell and back and I can verify that most of your popes are in hell.
ender 5 | 398
20 Dec 2010 #36
most of your popes are in hell

I have seen them there as well. Your point is? Mine is it's not your business anymore. Just because you blow couple priests doesn't mean whole institution is evil.
OP sobieski 107 | 2,128
20 Dec 2010 #37
Obviously you belong to the 110% of priests Father Wiśniewski is refering to. Namely the xenophobic, nationalistic, antisemitic and Dmowski-ite brand.
Just renewed your subscription to Julius Streicher's "Nasz Dziennik" did you?

By the way, you did not (and nobody of the religionists) answer to Father Wiśnieswski's open letter?
Ran out of arguments, maybe?
Has to be hard to attack this guy, isn't it?
f stop 25 | 2,513
20 Dec 2010 #38
Calling Polonius3, Sokrates and all the dumb American Polacks - where are you?

there is something wrong with you
ender 5 | 398
20 Dec 2010 #39
Obviously you belong to the 110% of priests Father Wiśniewski is refering to.

I wasn't part of mass forover 25 years and within those 25y I visited 3 catholic cathedral, orthodox monastyr, 2 mosques. What you say to that biach.

you did not (and nobody of the religionists) answer to Father Wiśnieswski's open letter

and I wont until I read it but not crap from szmatławiec GW. Have you heard?: Wyborcza kłamie.
cheehaw 2 | 263
20 Dec 2010 #40
I have seen them there as well. Your point is? Mine is it's not your business anymore.

I'd have to argue with you there.. and say.. it is actually everyone's business because the Catholic church is extremely influential, it affects the lives of catholics and non-catholics alike.

At any rate I never once made a derogatory statement concerning your priest, as my polish is not fluent enough to read the article. Like I said, a translate widgety at the news site would be a good idea. If he is being accused of being an anti-semite however, he's probably doing something right, since every non-jew and their mother is accused of being an anti-semite these days.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Dec 2010 #41
Anotehr exercise in hypocrisy by professional Church-bashers. Gazeta Wybiórcza (Poland's non-Gentile press organ) is continuing the line of the long defucnn Trybuna Ludu. Trybuna used to shed crocodile tears over how backward the Polish Chruch was and had nothign but words of praise for the 'progresive' Church of France and other Western countries. Was the communist organ concerned with the Church's development? Of course not. They knew that all the trendy innovations would only undermne the Chruch and they were right. Look what has happened to the 'progressive' Catholicism of France.

Funny that Father Ludiwk accused the Chruch of becoming politicised, but only as regards thsose who support PiS or Radio Marya. The priests and bishops who favour Tusk's platform and like Wybiórcza were somehow let off the hook.

Wybiórcza zeroed in on the Chruch a while back when it turned out that 10% of the clergy had played ball with the SB. But Wybiórcza never blinked an eyelash over the much higher percent of collaboration amongst writers, journalists, actors, academics and others. Not to mention the percentage of Michnik's compatriots who were Stalin's willing henchmen. That is routinely swept under the rug.
jonni 16 | 2,485
20 Dec 2010 #42
Gazeta Wybiórcza (Poland's non-Gentile press organ)

Poland's most popular newspaper. Educated Poles evidently prefer Gazeta Wyborcza's point of view to yours.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Dec 2010 #43
Apparently not that educated after all. Do they know how Michnik & Co. hijacked the newspaper. Wałęsa appointed him to head the Soldiairty as the organ of the entire anti-ciommunsti oppositon, but crafty little Adaś and his fellow-ethnic comaptriots turned it into a private corporation called Agora. Since the paper stopped serving the Soldiarity movement and effectviely became the organ of KORite types, Wałęsa had to withdraw the Solidarity emblem from the paper's front page. By then, the GW corproate structures and distribution network had been firmly developed and reading Wybiórcza had become de rigueur for egghead circles and wannabe intellectuals or 'wykształciuchy' as they're called in Polish.

Niech żyje salon!
ender 5 | 398
20 Dec 2010 #44
Poland's most popular newspaper.

Old slogan, intelligent don't believe in this crap anymore only retards, even commies don't trust this szmatławiec. Badly we still have in country some old idiots and young idiots, luckily most of the last one will change mind when they start reading other sources but for some there is no hope. Kto się pizdą urodził ten kanarkiem nie umrze.

yep GW to: Cała prawda, tylko prawda, gówno prawda.

Adaś and his fellow-ethnic comaptriots turned it into a private corporation called Agora

It's a waste of time.
jonni 16 | 2,485
20 Dec 2010 #45
Old slogan

And still true

intelligent don't believe in this crap anymore

They just buy it and read it

luckily most of the last one will change mind when they start reading other sources

Which doesn't detract from the popularity of GW

Traded on the Warsaw Stock Exchange, by the way, not owned by any mysterious cabal.
Barney 15 | 1,476
20 Dec 2010 #46
Did anyone else apart from Aphro point out that its good that this criticism came from within the church?

Was the communist organ concerned with the Church's development? Of course not.

In Ireland there was the exact opposite of persecution, what should be state institutions were handed over to the Church and it failed. The political influence has delivered nothing of substance either materially or spiritually, a bit like the evangelical movement in the US.

The Church should play a role in advancing the wishes of the flock, a role that is political by nature they should not however be allowed to dominate that debate.

Remember not only was Christ the first Catholic He was also the first Socialist.
ender 5 | 398
21 Dec 2010 #47
At any rate I never once made a derogatory statement concerning your priest, as my polish is not fluent enough to read the article.

I'm sorry you sound like commie so I was trying to make you mad. Thing is I don't like Catholic Church but I KNOW it's lesser evil then people who manipulate facts and wash youngsters brain. It happen it's GW whose owner is Jew and communist. Honestly my vision of state and community is totally opposite to stand of Holly Church ;-).

No death penalty. Nobody has right to decide about life of ANY human.
Some wronged people feel it's not right so law should let PERSONALLY kill offender.
Everyone who killed other human should get LIFE prison.
Woman should be allowed abortion only when pregnancy is effect of parthenogenesis. In other cases BOTH PARENTS has to decide about abortion one NO is NO for abortion.

Euthanasia, suicide people have right to decide about themselves.
Only adult people have right to have any partnership they want hetero, homo, polygamia it's their problem. Religious organizations (catholic church included) have rights to own rules as long they not killing people or forcing kids to marry old perverts.

Pretty simple. With such view I think CC is THE BEST option.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
21 Dec 2010 #48
and I wont until I read it but not crap from szmatławiec GW. Have you heard?: Wyborcza kłamie.

So, you're refusing to comment because it was published in Gazeta Wyborcza?

What a surprise - any excuse.

Poland's most popular newspaper. Educated Poles evidently prefer Gazeta Wyborcza's point of view to yours.

Indeed. The fact that they constantly denounce it means that there must be something of substance there - otherwise they'd just ignore it.

Wałęsa appointed him to head the Soldiairty as the organ of the entire anti-ciommunsti oppositon, but crafty little Adaś and his fellow-ethnic comaptriots turned it into a private corporation called Agora.

I take it you missed the part where Walesa embraced the free market.

Wałęsa had to withdraw the Solidarity emblem from the paper's front page.

Or could it be that they refused to back 'workers' with no interest apart from securing high salaries and pensions for themselves, along with working as little as possible for the highest possible reward?

By then, the GW corproate structures and distribution network had been firmly developed and reading Wybiórcza had become de rigueur for egghead circles and wannabe intellectuals or 'wykształciuchy' as they're called in Polish.

Ah, the jealousy is strong! Then again, I suppose Michnik and friends never ran away to the USA, unlike others.

Badly we still have in country some old idiots and young idiots, luckily most of the last one will change mind when they start reading other sources but for some there is no hope.

Yes, you're right. Hopefully, these idiots will realise that Gazeta Polska and the like are manipulating them soon. I doubt though - as you say, there's no hope.

Did anyone else apart from Aphro point out that its good that this criticism came from within the church?

I see none of the usual NASZA POLSKA POLSKA KOSCIOL NASZA POLSKA ANTI HOMO POLSKA crowd have commented on the article yet.

It happen it's GW whose owner is Jew and communist.

Uh - Agora is publicly traded. I hardly think all the owners are "jewish communists".

An open question : does anyone actually know any Jewish Communists?
ender 5 | 398
21 Dec 2010 #49
So, you're refusing to comment because it was published in Gazeta Wyborcza?

When you lie all the time people wouldn't trust you even when God start talking through you. Simple Watson. One notice if the letter is open why szmatławiec did not publish it whole, isn't it OPEN letter I want to read it all not pieces chosen by Jewish moron from GW.
Olaf 6 | 956
21 Dec 2010 #50
That means you are not part of Catholic Church (possibly you not Christian anymore) go to hell, Roman-Catholic Church is not your business CLEAR?

I think it must've been her conscious decision and actually it is not easy to get out of this club. Apostasia causes to be

ex-communicated

. But it doesn't give Cheehaw any more or any less right to say her opinion, Ender. It is everyone's case as long as the Church interferes in matters that are not part of sacred life/religion but politics, business, social affairs and other aspects that religion should avoid to stay truthful to the principles it teaches. Too bad the Catholic CEOs forgot this. It is business like every other, only they don't pay taxes and abuse peoples good hearts giving fake feeling of support and caring in return. But I can only admire their effectiveness in their business sector, they have monopoly in Poland and some other countries.

The negative opinions of this priest are one of the few that start showing up, from inside the organization and that is why they create so big attention.
ender 5 | 398
21 Dec 2010 #51
examples please or admit you talking crap. Abortion for example is moral case it's politicians who try to change people mind in this case if some people treat embryo as piece of meat they shouldn't waste it (you know CO2 footprint) next day breakfast hungry or not.

Did you hear CC calling to people doing abortion? If not fak off.

The negative opinions of this priest are one of the few that start showing up

mistake it's been managed.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
21 Dec 2010 #52
The fact that you keep using "Jewish" to describe someone as if it's some sort of inferior race suggests that the only "moron" is you.
ender 5 | 398
21 Dec 2010 #53
Is Adam Michnik Jew or not? He says he is Jew so what's your problem commie. Did you hear me saying anything wrong about Janusz Korczak the grate human? I know couple other great humans who happened to be Jews. So what is your problem?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
21 Dec 2010 #54
Is Adam Michnik Jew or not? He says he is Jew so what's your problem commie.

He says he's a "Pole with Jewish origins". That doesn't make him Jewish, but it certainly makes him Polish.

Unless of course, you think "Jewish origins = Jew" - in which case, you admit that many of Poland's greatest figures aren't actually Polish at all. Like Mickiewicz, who was Polish of Lithuanian origins. Or even Pilsudski.
ender 5 | 398
21 Dec 2010 #55
Like Mickiewicz, who was Polish of Lithuanian origins. Or even Pilsudski

Of course they are Lithuanian they said so but to understand it you need to know Polish history. For me A. Michnik is Jewish Jew I can say Pole with Jewish origin about Jerzy Urban but never about A. Michnik he gives all Jewish bad name.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Urban
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
21 Dec 2010 #56
I understand it just fine - it's utter nonsense to use someone's origins against them in Poland, because there are so many people with different origins.

Even if Michnik is a "Jewish Jew" - what's the issue? Why does his religion have anything to do with his politics?
ender 5 | 398
21 Dec 2010 #57
Even if Michnik is a "Jewish Jew" - what's the issue? Why does his religion have anything to do with his politics?

Ask his father and brother. I'm not going to explain details so shortly he is destroying Poland as country or he is trying one of the barrier is CC in fact anything and anyone with clear rules.

Good night i'll be watching you, Harry and sobieski to be honest I think all you three are Jewish
Olaf 6 | 956
21 Dec 2010 #58
Abortion for example is moral case

- But still a case to be heard by the people interested in hearing a priest about that. You yourself wrote before:

That means you are not part of Catholic Church (possibly you not Christian anymore) go to hell, Roman-Catholic Church is not your business CLEAR?

- So why you desperately try to preach your shallow slogans to the people that obviously oppose it and are not interested (hence are outside Church) in the mischevious revelations of the RCC? You just contradicted yourself. You are a hypocrite. If Cheehaw cannot say anything about the Church than use your own made-up rule, shut up and stop whining about anything that is not Church. Here's a nice quote for you, consider it a free advice: "Get thee to a nunnery!" (Hamlet)

You should accept the fact that the Church has always had problems with science and logic so why then listen to people that are not experts in any of these fields? The Church is also an institution with absolutely NO morality in the common sense associated with the Church but having nothing to do with it. That is the foundation of this religion. Read the Bible first. Tons of examples of slaughter (e.g. Moses got angry when he got back from the mountain with commandaments and saw the golden god the people made in the meantime - he ordered to kill everyone there - 3000 men, women and children, nice start of keeping to the commandaments, huh?) and other things like having sex w. your own children (two daughters get their father drunk to have sex with him). THAT you call the moral source and guidance for life? Good luck then - but first do read the rest, I won't spoil you the ending.

Did you hear CC calling to people doing abortion?

Yes! I do not visit churches on masses and yet I hear that all the time. How come then?

For me A. Michnik is Jewish Jew

Anyhow, strangely YOU divide people on that basis. And there are two things wrong about you: First, you divide people. Second, you divide them on the basis of supposedly being Jewish. No use talking to you.

No you piece of dung

- That is the level of dispute you represent. Good luck with your hatred, narrow-mindnes, xenophoby, anti-semitism and probably something more.
cheehaw 2 | 263
21 Dec 2010 #59
Truth be told ender, I am a rock solid Christian who left the church in search of truth, not religion. The Lord is my life. I think the Catholic church has done quite a lot for the civilized world, and never forget the crusaders who held back the muslims for so very long, a thing people love to use as a way of making the church look bad.. but the church did what it had to do so it and it's people were not enslaved by muslims. I give the Catholics and their solidarity in these types of situations a heap load of credit. I also think the hard line the church often takes in matters of things like abortion and euthanasia are correct, for civilization to continue morality in life's most basic matters must be upheld. However, I strongly disagree with the'religion' of the church.. the pope is NOT God nor his only representative on this earth. They teach catechism and want to hide the bible away. 500 years ago the RCC would have burnt at the stake any person who owned a bible, that is the biggest mistake they ever made and it cost the church a lot, the reformation resulted from these erronoeus teachings of church first and Jesus second, not to mention the fact that these days they even prefer the virgin mother as savior to the lord jesus himself, a co-redemptor. It's bullcrap, they made a lot of stuff up out if thin air to profit and empower themselves.

My catholic family more or less disowned me for several years after I left the church, ender. but nonetheless, I am aware that there are many many fine people in the RCC and if I had to choose between a society of homosexuals and jews or the church and it's hardline minions, I would choose the church, simply on principle. I could survive among them, the others are more interested in perverting and demoralizing my children than helping them one little bit.

my grandfather was an orphan, raised by the Catholic church, I actually owe quite a bit to them. I am not angry at them, we simply disagree, politely, on the true path to salvation.

Remember not only was Christ the first Catholic He was also the first Socialist.

and that is why he said that we should not pay heed to doctrines of men and if a man wants to eat he should work, right?
Ironside 50 | 10,810
21 Dec 2010 #60
Why does his religion have anything to do with his politics?

You can answer that one delph ! What does your religion or your origin have to do with your political standing ?:)


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