A devestating verdict on the Polish church

Very true, frd! The govt has chosen not to push the church away due to the money involved. Think of it this way, I-S, people have more direct contact with the church than they do with their govt or local MP. If you are a contributor to their cause, wouldn't you like to know where that money goes?

- Outsiders, insiders - soon there is better people, worse people, black, white, brown, etc. - As I said, this creates divisions! Where's the "love thy brethren" attitude, huh?


- Yes, totally. It affects everyone in Poland politically, financially, socially and legally. That's not secular Poland as in constitution (I think there is written Poland is a secular country).

Well, I'm sure you know!


In what way ?

I can't see how my personal imperfections are any business of the church, I-S. If indeed I am aware of them, I can work them in my own way, right?

Maybe, maybe not ....however monies for the Chruch are given on voluntary basis!


Where indeed ? Why do you ousiders are always pointing out something you are not able to grasp or understand it in a wrong way ?
I don't have to love someone whose intensions are not good !


divisions are there regardless !


I meant that the church are people, and people have their imperfections !

- Not true. If you pay taxes in Poland, you contribute to the RCC too inevitably, whether you like it or not.


- So creating more instead of diminishing is ok? Congrats.

Given on a voluntary basis, exactly. Why, I-S? Why would you give to the church? To further what end?

Priests have their imperfections too, spot on. So you are investing in what exactly?

Olaf's already answered in how many ways in the long run. And small details? I can add that every Pole while growing up has Catholic Religion classes in school, is pretty much surrounded by crosses. Every person has got catholic friends and family members.

And whatever your religion and point of view is you are gonna live your life being affected these people and therefore by religion. There's always gonna be pressure from those around you. I can't image how could one live in a catholic country and not be affected by catholicism.

By the way I'm not saying Polish religion is bad, I'm not saying beliefs of Poles are bad, tradition is very important. I've been to catholic funeral, I've been to an atheist funeral - the only thing that is more sad than atheist funeral is probably atheist wedding. The tradition that is following catholic religion in Poland is huge and makes these celebrations grand and unforgetting.

The Nationalists are not patriots. Sometimes some people think that Nationalism is another way of saying about Patriotism. NO! ... In my way of looking at it, the nationalists are people who use the sense of patriotism in their favor to pass on with their own ideologies which take the shape of fanaticism.

Patriotism is loving ones country, culture and beauty. Nationalism is a political ideology which promotes racism, facism and a stupid superiority complex!

About the Church: Useless and complete failure for its main purpose. A place where people visit for nothing more than very materialistic and selfish purposes. No real love for the Palestinian Carpenter with low socio-economic background, who spoke Aramic (primitive version of Arabic - he didnt even speak proper hebrew, the language of the well to do Jews). My heart goes out in respect towards Jesus Christ ... but feels grieved on how be became a political toy for some who used his name for their own ulterior motives.

A very well-written post, £ódź :) You have summed it up in a nutshell :)

to support an institusion which promotes goodness and the truth :)


See, it a good thing. You could live in muslim country and pretend to be muslim.

Goodness? You should watch the QI debates and listen to Stephen Fry/Chris Hitchins and see just how good they are ;) ;)

The truth of what? They are but one religious organisation with one set of beliefs. Belief is not truth, I-S. Simple point!

Boat, you missed ... the boat. I disagree with you completely.

But I can prove it. First tell me which part of Poland do you live in?

From the outside looking in ;)

~


If you want to lay down in the middle of the street and close your eyes, I'd be happy to show you.

not true !


Well, you are looking for a fault anyway, you can always finds something, I call it bi'ching !


the truth as it gets, simple point !

That doesn't make the "large flat" argument any stronger, so I consider that the nonsense.

Don't be absurd.

That's a great distinction, Lodz.

It's chicken sh*it!

Any patriotism is called by lefties nationalism anyhow....

yep, a beer for this nice gentleman!!

*shares beer with Bzibzi*

:)

Yes, this is due ofcourse. Sit in some German bar having beer and then lick those chicken shyte.

Because, not any "patriotism" is known as nationalism. I am not an ultra-liberal either. However, I just happen to practice balance - and balance is what keeps feelings from becoming extreme (and anything extreme looses its form and becomes something else. Nationalism is not patriotism - it is something else).

You never know, I'm going to Germany next year :)


Since when?

:s This is what a great distinction looks like:

Since I started to know the world. What makes you think about me being an ultra liberal? ... Yes I have liberal views, also some conservative views. I like some ideas of capitalism while I appreciate some socialist values aswell.

Racism has no place in a civilized person's life, because it makes your world constrained. Thoughts become blurred, and mind becomes programmed. It stops one from a complete realization of his/her potentials as a human being.

Extremism in any condition takes a human away from being humane. A human who is not humane is not a human. While a human who forgets some barriers to being humane again, leaves being humane and is a retraintless liquid without shape of meaning. So ... an optimal point is necessary. And all this is not as complicated as one might think...

Life can be good, if we let it be.


Good for you. I am sure there must be some good people there aswell. People who are respectful of others, and who regret their past thoroughly, not just by words by with good deeds.

I-S, it still isn't the universal truth at all. You need more than that to validate your case.

Real racism is waste of time so I don't bother with that. However oftentimes accusation of racism is overused so the meaning got cheap and is almost useless.


Thanks for the lecture, Grandpa.


That's very patronizing.
Oh, and I'm not going to check on remorsefulness of German people; I'm going to see my family's castle ... yep, I've got one of those :)

You're really pulling out the childish idiocy today. Where'd you learn this one, in kindergarten? :s What are humans if not human? Turtles?? Just stop with the stupid Lib platitudes...