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Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?!


jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #151
The detective said they weren't.

According to your online article.

She isn't reading comments on this forum, you messed up demagogue.

She certainly reads anything she can find about it online you argumentative stirrer.

And I'm mainly repeating what was written in Polish articles

Probably not the best way to go.

It's a tragic death which appears to be of natural causes. That is doubtless the worst thing to happen to the woman's mother in her life. It must be very hard for anyone to accept.

As mentioned here, the procedures around sudden deaths are rigorous. The Death Certificate contains the cause of death. If it appears in any way suspicious, the police have to act. Evidently it is not suspicious.

Bringing up online conspiracies about it on an internet forum just perpetuates the mother's pain.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #152
All Death Certificates contain the cause of death.

So what is the cause of death?

And where is that link I asked for?

So someone claims a neighbour said something about the state of a corpse that had been dead for days.

Yes. Those neighbours are the only witnesses. And the mother and the detective talked to them. The mother and the detective talked to Polish media. The representatives of the British police didn't agree to talk to Polish media, however, and so we have no other info.

Rather than trot out things you've read online

lol
I'm only repeating myself, because you don't seem to be reading what I'm writing. You could also simply read the article I linked to and it doesn't look like you did.

show a bit of decency and don't perpetuate a mother's grief.

I'm not perpetuating the mother's grief. Have you completely lost your mind from that British chauvinism? o_O
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #153
So what is the cause of death?

It's on the Death Certificate in black and white. The next of kin has a copy.

And the mother and the detective talked to them. The mother and the detective talked to Polish media

So what? It's what the police and Coroner think that counts.

because you don't seem to be reading what I'm writing

I'm reading your depressing hectoring and it's offensive rubbish.

And yes, you are perpetuating her grief by writing crap online.

The matter has been investigated fully.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #154
She certainly reads anything she can find about it online you argumentative stirrer.

And how do you know that? lol And does she even know English?

Probably not the best way to go.

Well, since the British media aren't writing about it and the British police press officer won't open his mouth to the Polish media that's the only way to go for now.

It's what the police and Coroner think that counts.

:D
Well, I'm not a telepath and I don't know what they "think" lol

The next of kin has a copy.

And the mother said that it didn't state why her daughter's heart stopped beating. So no wonder she "moved heaven and earth" to try and find out what happened.
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #155
lol

There you go again.

British police press officer won't open his mouth to

"Open his mouth"????

You assume it's a police matter.

And the mother said that it didn't state why her daughter's heart stopped beating

As you've been told several times already, all Death Certificates contain the cause of death.

Calm down and stop arguing for the sake of it. It makes you look foolish and given that this is about someone who died, disrespectful too.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #156
I'm reading your depressing hectoring and it's offensive rubbish.

What is so "offensive" about it? And which part is "rubbish"?

And yes, you are perpetuating her grief by writing crap online.

Of course not.

The matter has been investigated fully.

How do you know that? You don't. I don't know that either.

You assume it's a police matter.

Yes, I'd say a police investigation is a police matter :D
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #157
I'd say a police investigation is a police matter :D

There isn't a police investigation though, is there. The matter is closed. And less of the ":D" crap. It is disrespectful.

What is

And which part is

How do you

Are you single by any chance?
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #158
There isn't a police investigation though, is there.

The fact that it was closed doesn't mean that questions shouldn't be asked whether it was done right.

As you've been told several times already, all Death Certificates contain the cause of death.

So what is the cause of Sandra's death?

Calm down and stop arguing for the sake of it. It makes you look foolish and given that this is about someone who died, disrespectful too.

Jon357, it was you who commented on my post first. You didn't have to do that and you didn't have to continue this either.

You're making this girl's death all about your British pride which I find pretty sickening. You don't care about this girl and the truth - you just care about defending your countrymen. You don't even consider the possibility that something went wrong in that investigation.

And all I did was asking a question: "A shocking case of neglect by the London police?" It wasn't a statement - it was a question, because, obviously, I don't know what really happened. But I'd like to know and I hope that Sandra's family will get to know the truth about her death - whatever that truth may be.

Are you single by any chance?

Are you? 🤔
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #159
So what is the cause of Sandra's death?

You've been told several times now that it's on the Death Certificate. If you're so interested, why not ask her next of kin if she'll let you see it?

You're making this girl's death all about your British pride which I find pretty sickening. You don't care about

Hard to know where you pull that gem from. Especially since I criticise the authorities there all the time. In this matter though, it seems there's nothing controversial.

And all I did was asking a question: "A shocking case of neglect by the London police?

The matter is neither "shocking" nor "neglect"

I suggest we don't continue with this conversation since Ewa Nguyen, the deceased's mother does read things online about it and she is after all a bereaved mother.

Are you? 🤔

No, and wouldn't like to be. It does appeal to some though.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #160
If you're so interested, why not ask her next of kin if she'll let you see it?

Her mother already said that the cause of death wasn't given. You think she's lying?

Hard to know where you pull that gem from.

From many of your comments on this forum.

The matter is neither "shocking" nor "neglect"

If what the mother and the detective are saying is true then it defenitely looks like a shocking case of neglect on the part of the police and probably the coroner too.

Do you think the mother and the detective are lying to Polish media?

I suggest we don't continue with this conversation since Ewa Nguyen, the deceased's mother does read things online

Firstly, you don't know whether she's reading anything, whether she's reading this forum (highly unlikely) or even if she knows English. So stop lying.

Secondly, I'm only repeating what she said herself, so stop using a grieving mother in your argument against me, because it's just low and dishonest.
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #161
Her mother already said that the cause of death wasn't given

All Death Certificates contain the cause of death.

That must be the sixth time you've been told.

Firstly, you don't know whether she's reading anything

Yes, she does read about it online, according to things elsewhere on the internet. Did you think I made that up?

Now stop making a stupid exhibition of yourself. This is a serious matter involving a woman who died of natural causes whose grieving mother is having a very hard time accepting that.

Most of what little is findable online about it in English is down to you. Calm down and show some respect.
Lenka 5 | 3,525
9 May 2024 #162
All Death Certificates contain the cause of death.

If the cause is ' the heart stopped' then it's lame.

Now stop making a stupid exhibition of yourself

She doesn't. What's the problem in discussing the things we know? If you have information contradicting the mother's statements let us know and we may agree with you. But it must be something besides 'oh, our police wouldn't '

Calm down and show some respect

There is nothing disrespectful about discussing whether the matter has been investigated thoroughly.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #163
All Death Certificates contain the cause of death.

Unless they didn't manage to determine the cause of death. "Heart stopping to beat" isn't a cause of death. The heart always stops to beat when people die. So - do you think the mother is lying?

Yes, she does read about it online, according to things elsewhere on the internet. Did you think I made that up?

I wouldn't be surprised if you were making this up, considering what bullsh1t you're writing.

This is a serious matter involving a woman who died of natural causes

Yes, it is a serious matter - that's why I wrote about it. And you don't know if she died of natural causes. You just choose to believe that the British police did a good job. I, however, choose to believe the mother and the detective, until what they are saying will be somehow disproven.

If you have information contradicting the mother's statements let us know and we may agree with you. But it must be something besides 'oh, our police wouldn't '

Exactly.
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #164
If the cause is ' the heart stopped' then it's lame.

Which is why it certainly isn't the cause given on the certificate. They are generally very detailed.

I, however, choose to believe the mother and the detective, until

Feel free to 'believe' what you like on the basis of a short online article, however you are certainly writing without any context at all about the way things work there and you are certainly trying to argue for the sake of it.

As I say, disrespectful, undignified, hysterical and perpetuating misery.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #165
Which is why it certainly isn't the cause given on the certificate. They are generally very detailed.

So do you claim the mother is lying?

however you are certainly writing without any context at all about the way things work there

So are you. As Lenka put it, your only argument is that "oh, our police wouldn't". 🙄

you are certainly trying to argue for the sake of it.

No, I'm only responding to your posts lol You commented on my post first, remember? So why do you keep doing that? :)

disrespectful, undignified, hysterical and perpetuating misery.

That's what you're doing. Your blind defense of the British police is disrespectful towards Sandra and her family, undignified, hysterical and perpetuating the mother's misery.
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #166
So do you claim the mother is lying?

Grow up Paulina. This is now the seventh time it's been explained to you that Death Certificates contain the cause of death.

your blind defence of the British police

There you go again.

Try to show some dignity. You are making a public exhibition of yourself, and not for the first time. You do this with some regularity...
Atch 20 | 4,152
9 May 2024 #167
Sudden death from cardiac arrest is young people is a well known condition. It's comparatively rare of course but more common, ironically, in athletes or very physically active people. We've had a few cases in Ireland in recent years. The young woman was a dancer and clearly she was having regular check-ups, possible for the very reason that outwardly very fit young people have been known to drop dead from this heart issue.

As to semen on her clothes and her not having a boyfriend, perhaps she didn't want her mother to know about the boyfriend or know that she was sexually active.

Clearly, a post mortem was carried out because the article Paulina linked to, stated that her body will be dissected 'again'. Other than that, everything reported is simply heresay and it is impossible to determine anything concrete from it. As Jon says, cause of death will definitely be shown on the death certificate.

It may simply be that the poor mother can't accept that her lovely, young, apparently healthy daughter died suddenly.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #168
This is now the seventh time it's been explained to you that Death Certificates contain the cause of death.

And I'm telling you yet another time that the mother says that the cause of death, i.e. why Sandra's heart stopped beating wasn't given. Do you understand?

So, I'm asking you again - do you think the mother is lying?

Try to show some dignity.

How about you follow your own advice.

You are making a public exhibition of yourself

I am doing no such thing. You commented on my post first and you can stop anytime, so stop being a baby.

Sudden death from cardiac arrest is young people is a well known condition.

That's not the only problem with this case though - judging by the articles I've read.
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #169
wasn't given

Has she claimed that the Death Certificate doesn't give an exact cause of death? As far as I can see she hasn't said that at all.

And I'm telling you yet another time

Paulina, you really should drop this.
Atch 20 | 4,152
9 May 2024 #170
the mother says that the cause of death, i.e. why Sandra's heart stopped beating wasn't given.

Yes, but that's a layman's way of putting it. The post mortem will have had a clear result and it seems that result was natural causes and that there was nothing discovered which indicated a suspicious death.

Here is the detailed breakdown of what's recorded in the post mortem report and on the Death Certificate which the mother would have received.

coroners.leicester.gov.uk/faqs/when-a-death-is-reported/understanding-the-results/
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #171
As to semen on her clothes and her not having a boyfriend.

It was her friend who said that she had no boyfriend at that time, not her mother. And anyway, this should be investigated whether she had a boyfriend or not.

It may simply be that the poor mother can't accept that her lovely, young, apparently healthy daughter died suddenly.

It may also be that the British police did a bad job.

Has she claimed that the Death Certificate doesn't give an exact cause of death?

Yes:

"Koroner w raporcie napisał, że serce Sandry po prostu przestało bić - nie stwierdził dlaczego."

Translation:

"The coroner wrote in his report that Sandra's heart simply stopped beating - he didn't determine why".

Paulina, you really should drop this.

Drop what? You started it and you can stop it if you wish.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #172
And anyway, this should be investigated whether she had a boyfriend or not.

Sorry, I meant that this evidence should be investigated no matter if she had a boyfriend or not.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #173
The whole quote from Polsat News:

polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2024-05-06/interwencja-smierc-19-latki-w-londynie-polska-prokuratura-reaguje

"Coroner wrote in his report that Sandra's heart simply stopped beating - he didn't determine why.

- This is impossible. She danced for many years and every six months she had to do exercise ECG. Everything was OK, the heart was healthy and she could continue to exercise. This is a scandal in the British police, I couldn't imagine how you could do nothing in such a case. One flatmate said that the other flatmate also left the flat on December 17. But one of the neighbours saw that boy on December 20 using the computer. Here, in this flat - Ewa assesses."

(According to coroner's report Sandra died on December 17-18 and her body was found on December 23).
Ironside 51 | 12,447
9 May 2024 #174
I am sure it was patriarchy that killed her.
Serisylt thought that news doesn't always give you all the information or correct information.
mafketis 37 | 10,848
9 May 2024 #175
", the laptop found at the flat got plugged in 4 days later when Sandra was already dead for quite a while and allegedly there was noone at the flat"

And police did not investigage? That is a massive red flag.... (not to mention the semen on her clothes).

No police force is perfect and it's very likely that the overworked and understaffed and underfunded British police force just wanted to close out the case of an Eastern European migrant as quickly as possible.

Very suspicious.

And.... just to annoy people.... was she vaxxed?
Atch 20 | 4,152
9 May 2024 #176
just wanted to close out the case of an Eastern European migrant as quickly as possible.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. There have been plenty of deaths in the Polish community in the UK which have been investigated as suspicious.

she had to do exercise ECG. Everything was OK, the heart was healthy and she could continue to exercise.

Sadly Paulina, ECGs don't detect all heart problems. It's impossible to try a case on a forum like this without proper evidence, sworn witnesses, cross examination etc. It has been known for witnesses, when cross examined, to change their stories.

Just let it go and wait for the Polish prosecutor's opinion.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #177
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

But you and jon357 can jump to the conclusion about the mother?

Sadly Paulina, ECGs don't detect all heart problems.

As I already wrote it's not the only problem with this case, to put it mildly. Besides, the girl could get a heart attack during a rape. I remember a case of a woman who suffered a stroke during a gang rape (she survived).

It's impossible to try a case on a forum

Of course. I just wrote a post about what I read in press articles.

Just let it go and wait for the Polish prosecutor's opinion.

I didn't start this, jon357 did and you continue. I only shared the news.
Atch 20 | 4,152
9 May 2024 #178
it's not the only problem with this case

Negligence by the police is a possibility, but it would also require negligence by the doctor performing the post mortem and then by the Coroner. Such a combination is fairly unlikely.

Not jumping to any conclusions about the mother, poor lady. Just stating that it's not unusual for a parent in extreme grief to find it impossible to accept that their child died a natural death. They look for reasons 'why did this happen'?
mafketis 37 | 10,848
9 May 2024 #179
Negligence by the police is a possibility, but it would also require negligence

How short in supply is negligence in the UK police now?

This does not suggest a robust system that's working well...

lbc.co.uk/news/police-failed-to-solve-burglaries-england-wales-charge-rates-fell/
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #180
Negligence by the police is a possibility, but it would also require negligence by the doctor performing the post mortem and then by the Coroner. Such a combination is fairly unlikely.

Why do you think that?
For example, in case of Rotherham scandal all kinds of services failed - the police, social services...

Btw, how likely it is for a woman to suffer a stroke during a gang rape? How often do you hear about such stuff? I only heard about one such case. But it happened.

So it may be such "freak" case - I wouldn't rule it out. You never know and that's why you should investigate properly.

Not jumping to any conclusions about the mother, poor lady. Just stating

Maf also just stated that no police force is perfect and overworked and understaffed and underfunded police force may want to "get it over with" and close the case.

it's not unusual for a parent in extreme grief to find it impossible to accept that their child died a natural death.

I perfectly realise this. But the accusations of the mother and the detective concerning negligence by the police are serious. It's not just about coroner's report.


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