Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?!

Hello Cojestdocholery It is likely to have been 1946-50 Do you know if the Polish Embassy in London would be able to help with my father`s personal info and timeline from all those years ago?

I doubt it. It only means that he could be one of those people who were forced to escape from Soviet occupied Poland. It is possible on fake papers. It would be rather diffcult to find out if his name was a fake.

Not impossible but you would have to put a lot of efford into it. For start you could ask the Polish Embassy for a directions - where to start.

I think this forum would be of a limited use to you. It is an American forum.

maybe spend some more time with your half sister she might remember a tiny thing ...

there are plenty of Brits here. You might contact the Polish Cultural Centre i think its in Kensington or Hammersmith.

they would at least know about this kind of thing, where to look, and maybe have more time for it than embassy staff who are really only there to represent their living citizens.

@Urzula
If you do a DNA test from ancestry.com or 23 and Me (do both if your budget allows), it will flag up any other people who've done the test who are relatives, close or distant.

This may help to provide some answers or point you in a useful direction.

@Cojestdocholery I didn`t know this was an American forum, it says Polish forum in my search bar. Thank you @ rozumiemnic for that info, I will give it a go.

@ jon357 I have already done that, thank you

Hammersmith..

A particularly grisly murder.

The dismembered corpse of a 67 year old man was found in various parts of a nature reserve near Manchester last week.

It sparked a forensic search to identify the victim as well as a manhunt for the perp/s.

Two men were charged in court today. Their names are Michal Jaroslaw Polchowski, 68, and Marcin Majerkiewicz, 42.

They spoke in the commital hearing at magistrates court via an interpreter. I suspect the trial (if they plead not guilty) will be an interesting one.

bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-68904933.amp

"After the discovery of a lower back, buttocks and thigh, which were found wrapped in cellophane, police cordoned off the area for two weeks to search for the remaining body parts".

The victim was a Mr Everett, aged 67.
amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/30/victim-named-salford-human-remains-investigation-manchester

A shocking case of neglect by the London police?: 😳😢

o2.pl/informacje/smierc-sandry-w-londynie-bedzie-sekcja-w-polsce-wiadomo-co-z-dna-7025444898376192a

A 19-year-old Sandra Nguyen from Warsaw who was studying architecture at the Kensington University was found dead on December 23 last year in the flat she was renting in West Kensington, London. She lived there with two male flatmates.

She was supposed to come to Poland for Christmas, but she never got there.

Her mother got worried because Sandra wasn't picking up the phone for a few days, which was unusual for her and so she asked the girl's neighbours to enter the flat. They found her dead lying on the couch in an unnatural position and with bruises on her face, forearms and legs.

The London police quickly decided that the girl died from natural causes even though her body wasn't checked for rape (no swabs were done, even though her mother asked for it) and semen was found on her clothes that were there at the flat (she had no boyfriend).

The London coroner stated that her heart stopped beating, but he didn't say why it stopped. Her mother said that Sandra danced for years and she had her heart checked every 6 months - everything was OK. According to toxicology tests there were no substances in the girl's blood that could cause her death.

The two male flatmates weren't even questioned by the police even though they claimed they left the flat before Sandra's death - and yet, the laptop found at the flat got plugged in 4 days later when Sandra was already dead for quite a while and allegedly there was noone at the flat.

The death scene wasn't secured and the flatmates were let in inside a day after Sandra's body was found.
The private detective hired by the mother said that it's possible there was a party at the flat - there were 5 glasses found there and the police didn't secure them, they didn't secure the DNA. The sheets with spots that could suggest that something happened there weren't secured either. The detective said that he got the material too late - it was already useless.

The London police officers didn't want to talk in front of the cameras. The flatmates didn't want to talk to Polish media either. The UK investigation was discontinued and so the mother asked in April this year the Polish prosecutor's office in Warsaw to start their own investigation.

On April 24 Sandra's body was transported to Poland and is being prepared for another autopsy.

I tried to find some info about this case in the British media, but all I found was this:

ground.news/article/mysterious-death-of-a-19-year-old-girl-in-london-polish-prosecutors-office-reacts

And it's just a short summary from Polsat News...

A 19-year-old Sandra and when she was 11 years old: 🕯️

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I doubt it. You probably mean the Metropolitan Police, and they (as well as the Coroner, a senior judge) have very strict protocols to follow.

The involvement of a "private detective hired by the mother" is a red flag here.


Why the hell should they?

This just sounds like a grieving mother unable to accept her daugfhter's death.

@jon357, I had a feeling that your comment will look like that...


It doesn't look like they followed them at all.


To explain what happened? It looks like even the mother wasn't informed why her daughter died.


Why?

For now it looks to me like shocking police incompetence. We'll see what Polish autopsy will show, but I don't know if it isn't too late - it's been 4 months already... :(

Not really the point, is it?

It does seem a bit lack considering we are talking about young girl with no substances in the system. Unless there is proof of natural causes shouldn't it be treated as suspicious death?

I had a feeling you would. That's why you posted a non-story.


How do you know? On the basis of something a grieving mother and her 'private detective' said?


To a camera crew? That's not how things work.

If there was the slightest possibility of a cover up, the media would be all over this. They love nothing more than suspicious deaths and ways to criticise the authorities. It isn't, and it's not even in the local news, however if you're concerned, feel free to contact the IPCC.

If that's a non-story for you then you're one messed up individual.


Yes, because they're the only ones talking.
So all I know for now is what they're saying.


That's how it should work in a normal, democratic country in such a case when there's a suspicion of police neglect.


They are - in Poland.


And how do you know that?

Btw, it wouldn't be a "non-story" for me if it happened in Poland either. Even though I had family members in the Polish police. I know how police anywhere can suck sometimes.

Tough.

Any unexplained or sudden death in the UK triggers three things. Firstly, an investigation by the CID. Secondly a post mortem by a forensic pathologist. Thirdly an inquest held at a Coroner's Court.

It is worth mentioning that the deceased person's family are routinely involved in all three stages. If for any reason they are unhappy with the police investigation they can flag it to the IPCC. If they are unhappy with the results of the post-mortem they can ask for a second one. If they are unhappy with the verdict of the court they can raise an appeal. All of these things are free and are taken seriously.

There's also the Police and Crime Commissioner for the region as well as the Victims' Commissioner; they can both become involved at the request of a family member of a deceased person and they take things very seriously.


They certainly can, however the combined chance of police error, a forensic pathologist missing signs of a suspicious death and a Coroner's Court all getting it wrong are vanishingly small.

As I say, it's a non-story that is being pushed by a 'private detective'.

@jon357, if it was such a "non-story" I doubt the Polish prosecutor's office would get involved.


It doesn't mean it can't happen. Besides, I don't know if the mother knew about all those procedures. She came from Poland when she found out about her daughter's death, she didn't live in the UK.

Why didn't they say what was the cause of her death? Why did she have bruises on her face, legs and arms? Why the flatmates weren't questioned? Why DNA wasn't secured? Why the police didn't unblock Sandra's phone (the family can't get into it)?

Well, if that's the case then there's nothing simpler then the police press officer telling this to the Polish media and explaining the cause of death of a healthy 19-year-old girl.

They have to if a case is brought to them.


She would certainly be supported by Polish speaking police staff. London does not lack Poles, including people who have moved there and are serving as police officers. She would also be entitled to support from the Polish Consulate.


The police don't. The Coroner does, and it is a matter of public record. Coroner's verdicts canot be concealed. And of course all Death Certificates contain the cause of death.


Do you think they weren't?

Not "healthy" if she's dead, and the police don't "explain" causes of death.

Perhaps there's a factor in this that both you and I are unaware of. The most likely factor is that the death wasn't suspicious.

You mean Polish men who say that "Polki tylko wyjadą do UK to się z Arabami puszczają. Dziwki."?


I'm sure they would be terribly helpful, as always lol


So what was the cause of her death?


Until the British police says otherwise and explains why they are not suspects in this case, I will think they weren't questioned.

A strange and pointless comment; also a spectacularly ignorant one.

Don't assume that all police are male. Nor do they make value judgements about people's lifestyles. 37% are female. Roughly the same percentage are univerity graduates.


You tell me. It's on the Death Certificate which the deceased's next of kin is given when reporting the death to the BDM Registrar and of course the Coroner's verdict is a matter of public record.


Feel free to think.


Evidently it isn't a "case". Has the woman's next of kin been in contact with the local MP?

Then what was the illness that killed her? What was she suffering from?


The police should know the cause of death though and tell the girl's mother what was the cause of her daughter's death.

And if they don't know what caused her death then the investigation should be continued.


Those flatmates were sons of some rich or influential people, for example? 🤔

As you were told, the cause of death is on the Death Certificate.


Girl? The woman's next of kin would be given this information after the post mortem and would be required to inform the BDM Registrar when reporting the death and obtaining the Death Certificate. She would need a hard copy of the Death CErtificate to arrange burial/cremation or to have the body shipped abroad.


The UK is not Poland and this is irrelevant. For such a conspiracy to take place, it would need to be multi-agency and involve many people of different professions.

If there's anything seriously amiss, there are procedures to deal with that; those procedures are probably the most transparent in Europe if not the world.

No, that's a real life comment.


Majority are though and you have no idea who the mother was dealing with and if she was "supported by Polish speaking police staff" at all.


Of course they do lol 🤦 Especially men in such cases.


Didn't you read what I wrote? The mother said that according to the coroner her daughter's heart "stopped beating". He didn't say why it stopped beating. If it was your child you wouldn't want to know WHY the heart of your 19-year-old daughter stopped beating, especially considering the suspicious circumstances?

By whom? A serving British Police Officer? I suspect not; he, she or they would certainly be fired.


He (or she) would't. That is on the Death Certificate.


Perhaps there were none.

Sometimes, the most likely explanation is the most obvious one. What cause of death is listed on the Death Certificate?

Yes, jon357, every male police officer is saying such things publicly and into the face of his boss, so he could get promptly fired, of course :))) On what kind of planet are you living? Isn't it called "La La Land" by any chance? ;D


Yes, the UK has it's own issues from what I've heard and read. That's why I have two other theories.


So how "many people of different professions" where involved in Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal? 🙄


I'm guessing that this is what the mother meant.


Judging by what the mother said the only information given was that Sandra's "heart stopped beating".

A quick look online shows a comment from the woman's mother. She was informed by the Coroner that the bruises occurred while the body was being moved.

She does not however mention the cause of death which is on the Death Certificate. Nor does she suggest that the flatmates Aleksander and Lukasz were not interviewed. She does mention that the police and Coroner ruled out suicide and homicide and were satisfied that the death was not suspicious..

Interestingly, the deceased woman had to have an ECG test twice yearly which suggests that she had heart problems.


Cobblers. And the fact that you know about the issue in that small town suggests very much that it's in the public domain.


Death Certificates are somewhat more detailed than that.

You are clutching at straws and are insulting both the dead woman and the professionals involved.

The grieving mother is free to believe that everyone is lying to her without motive; this is not rare. Perpetuating her grief by posting nasty conspiracy crap online shows you up badly.

But you just like making arguments for the sake of it.

Link?


What? Bruises on her face? Moved by whom and when? What are you talking about? The neighbours said that she had the bruises already when they found her lying dead on the couch.


Because according to Polish articles the cause of death wasn't given. It wasn't stated why the heart stopped beating.


What heart problems? Wouldn't that be given as the cause of death then? "The heart stopped beating most probably due to..." and not just "the heart stopped beating". Also, her family said that her ECG tests were showing that everything was OK.

All Death Certificates contain the cause of death.


So someone claims a neighbour said something about the state of a corpse that had been dead for days.

Rather than trot out things you've read online, perhaps show a bit of decency and don't perpetuate a mother's grief.

How long did it take for the public to find out about it? The authorities failed those girls. The UK isn't perfect, jon357. There are no perfect countries and there are no perfect nations. Although you apparently think that the UK is and the British are perfect and everything in UK is perfect - I'm not sure why you're clinging to this belief so hard...


The detective said they weren't.


Stop it, jon357. Really - stop it. You don't have to go so low. And for what? For such a "non-story"?


She isn't reading comments on this forum, you messed up demagogue.
And I'm mainly repeating what was written in Polish articles. The British police is free to deny all of that, but I don't see them doing that.