The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / UK, Ireland  % width posts: 236

Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?!


mafketis 37 | 10,848
9 May 2024 #181
Maf also just stated

How did the computer turn on?

What (if anything) did the police say about that? That just sticks out as something to look into....

in case of Rotherham scandal all kinds of services failed - the police, social services...

Contrary to intuition... once one service fails, it's more likely that others will as well... (at least in my experience).

Not saying for sure that's what happened but this case.... lots of elements that raise concern.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #182
How did the computer turn on?

What (if anything) did the police say about that?

No idea, it doesn't look like they said anything about it...

That's all there is written about the reaction of the British police:

"The representatives of the British police didn't agree to talk to 'Intervention' in front of a camera. According to them Sandra died from natural causes. The investigation therefore was discontinued."

That's one of the things that are strange to me, btw. It's literally the job of the police press officer to talk to the media (yes, including in front of cameras)... Isn't in the UK also like that? 🤨

According to the detective the police assumed from the start that Sandra died from natural causes and hence all the negligence. Which is another strange thing - did they just walk into the room, look at a dead girl lying on the couch and just assumed that she died of natural causes and so they didn't bother to secure evidence, DNA? What the hell? Do they have X-rays in their eyes and can perform instant autopsy? lol

I mean, the fact that they didn't do the swab in case she got raped is honestly shocking to me. That's like the basic thing, one of the first things you would do in such a case, imho. Mind-blowing...
Ironside 51 | 12,447
9 May 2024 #183
Very suspicious.

That is also possible.
-----
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #184
I didn't start this, jon357 did and you continue

Yes you did "start" this.

You "start" ridiculous arguments with periodical regularity.

And the bizarre thing is that it's on the basis of one online article.

Negligence by the police is a possibility, but it would also require negligence by the doctor performing the post mortem and then by the Coroner. Such a combination is fairly unlikely

I said the same and outlined the way each stage can be challenged.

and the detective

A "private detective" who doubtless is making good money and can say what they like without consequences.

You should drop this. It is undignified l.
If there is any mystery, which there almost certainly isn't, there are correct channels to enquire. Clutching at straws, like suggesting her flatmates Lukasz and Alexander are the sons of important British people or suggesting that a Death Certificate doesn't contain a detailed cause of death are ridiculous.

It makes you look unpleasant and foolish.
Lenka 5 | 3,525
9 May 2024 #185
It makes you look unpleasant and foolish.

Are you looking in the mirror?

You give no other arguments besides your own belief. You don't address any of the points.
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #186
no other arguments

This isn't an "argument". It is a tragic death, almost certainly of natural causes.

You don't address any of the points.

The "points" that Paulina was ranting about have all been addressed. However she knows zero about the context and is basing her meltdown on one online article.

She doesn't mention the Coroner's verdict since she doesn't even know. For some reason the article doesn't mention it or ask about it, presumably because the journalist who wrote it doesn't know how the system works.

besides your own belief

It seems that article is written solely on the basis of the "belief" of a grieving mother and a "private detective" without reference to actual facts.

Paulina should be ashamed of herself.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #187
Yes you did "start" this.

You "start" ridiculous arguments with periodical regularity.

No, I didn't start any argument. I shared the news and you chose to comment on my post. Which is fine, that's what forums are for, so stop whining.

And the bizarre thing is that it's on the basis of one online article.

It's on the basis of a few articles and Polsat News "Intervention" TV reportage (the reporter went to London). You can watch it here (it shows the video of neighbours finding the body):

interwencja.polsatnews.pl/reportaz/2024-05-06/tajemnicza-smierc-19-latki-w-londynie-polska-prokuratura-reaguje/

and can say what they like without consequences.

Without consequences? Now the whole of Poland knows about this case. If it turns out that the detective is lying/scamming a grieving mother for money he will be finished. Everybody will know.

You should drop this. It is undignified

Drop what? Discussing events concerning Polish citizens? I will definitely not stop. I will discuss whatever I want and you have no right to tell me what to do.
Ironside 51 | 12,447
9 May 2024 #188
Are you looking in the mirror?

He said that in his judgment it is highly unlikely that there was something amiss,
Paulina didn't provide any evidence besides hearsay, some PD words that could be BS, and her mother who thinks there was something amiss but has no idea what.
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #189
No, I didn't start any argument

Yes you did.

You do it with periodic regularity and consistently refuse to admit you are wrong.

and you have no right to tell me what to do.

You should be ashamed of yourself for posting trash about a tragic death from natural causes. What was the Coroner's verdict?
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #190
Are you looking in the mirror?

It doesn't look like he does.

The "points" that Paulina was ranting about have all been addressed.

No, they haven't been.

She doesn't mention the Coroner's verdict since she doesn't even know.

As it was already explained to you - coroner's "verdict" is that Sandra's "heart stopped beating". Are you satisfied with such "verdict"? Because I'm not and Sandra's mother clearly isn't satisfied either.

For some reason the article doesn't mention it

Why are you lying?
Alien 21 | 5,178
9 May 2024 #191
Most interestingly, in March 2023, a 19-year-old Polish woman was found on a beach in the Netherlands and she also died of natural causes. Sudden cardiac arrest?
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #192
You should calm down and try to stop digging yourself into a hole over someone's tragic death.

What was the Coroner's verdict, or to use the correct term, their Finding of Fact, sometimes referred to in law as a Determination.

coroner's "verdict" is that Sandra's "heart stopped beating

That isn't a Coroner's verdict. There are three possibilities: accident/misadventure, unlawful killing and natural causes.

Why are you lying?

Why do you think I'm lying?
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #193
Yes you did.

No, I didn't.

You should be ashamed of yourself for posting trash about a tragic death from natural causes.

So according to you the mother is spreading "trash" about the death of her own daughter? Because I only wrote what she and the detective hired by her are saying.

Jon357, what you're trying to do now is honestly sickening. But you won't discourage me from writing about this case. You can post all kind of crap you want about me, but if I find out something more about Sandra's death I will write about it and you won't stop me. Especially considering that, as you wrote, there's nothing in English about this case.

Paulina should be ashamed of herself.

No, you should be ashamed of yourself.

That isn't a Coroner's verdict. There are three possibilities: accident/misadventure, unlawful killing and natural causes.

I can only guess that it was "natural causes" considering what the British police is saying, but clearly noone who knew Sandra is buying that. It doesn't look like the medical cause of her death was given.
Lenka 5 | 3,525
9 May 2024 #194
He said that in his judgment it is highly unlikely that there was something amiss,

And according to Paulina it is. It's not like Jon's opinion have any more bearing.

Paulina didn't provide any evidence besides hearsay, some PD words that could be BS, and her mother who thinks there was something amiss but has no idea what.

And besides mentioning few things that seem weird to her (like not checking smears etc.).
And while it may be death from natural causes, it may not be. Posting the concerns of family member of a Polish citizen is clearly something connected to the topic of this forum and this thread.

You should be ashamed of yourself for posting trash about a tragic death from natural causes

Ashamed of posting the concerns of person closest to the deceased?
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #195
@Paulina
This just makes you look bad.

Now what was the Coroner's verdict? The article doesn't mention it.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #196
Ashamed of posting the concerns of person closest to the deceased?

Jon357 is just being an obnoxious demagogue. He's trying to shut my mouth, but I'm not going to fall for that. Maybe he thinks I'm attacking his "home & country" lol even though I also criticised Polish police and society on this forum. He's weird like that.
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #197
Maybe he thinks I'm attacking his "home & country

Don't be silly. My "home & country" has been Poland for several decades.

The important thing here is facts. Not hearsay or emotion.

So what was the Coroner's verdict?
Lenka 5 | 3,525
9 May 2024 #198
So what was the Coroner's verdict?

You do realise that if there was a screw up that report would be part of it and as such it doesn't hold much importance?

My "home & country" has been Poland

Bukhara, you might be living in Poland but you are British to the core and your loyalty is clearly to UK
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #199
that report

The verdict isn't a "report". It's the finding of a court hearing at which the next-of-kin is present.

And of course there's no serious suggestion of a "screw up".
Lenka 5 | 3,525
9 May 2024 #200
And of course there's no serious suggestion of a "screw up".

There is definitely slight smell of suspicion.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #201
There are three possibilities: accident/misadventure, unlawful killing and natural causes.

No, actually there are more possibilities of conclusions (formerly called verdicts) like, for example:

- industrial diseases
- dependency on drugs or non-dependent abuse of drugs
- lack of care or self-neglect
- suicide
- lawful killing (formerly "justifiable homicide")

... and last but not least:

- open verdict (cause of death unknown or unstated)

And of course there's no serious suggestion of a "screw up".

Of course there is.

There is definitely slight smell of suspicion.

I'd say that it's defenitely more than just "slight".

Bukhara, you might be living in Poland but you are British to the core and your loyalty is clearly to UK

I have the same impression.
jon357 74 | 22,347
9 May 2024 #202
I'd forgotten about suicide and open verdicts. Not that your online article mentions the verdict at all.

In this case however there doesn't appear to be any grounds for suspicion. Presumably the dead woman's mother will appeal it however the findings will be in the basis of fact which may not satisfy her.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #203
I'd forgotten about suicide and open verdicts.

How convenient.
Suicide was ruled out though.

In this case however there doesn't appear to be any grounds for suspicion.

According to you. According to the mother, Sandra's friends (so people who actually knew her), the detective and the reporter (who actually went there) and me - there does appear to be grounds for suspicion. So let us agree to disagree, OK?

I will post an update in this thread when or if there's going to be more info.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
9 May 2024 #204
however the findings will be in the basis of fact which may not satisfy her.

And what is this supposed to mean?
Atch 20 | 4,152
10 May 2024 #205
coroner's "verdict" is that Sandra's "heart stopped beating".

That's the mother's paraphrasing. It's not the official verdict.

if there was a screw up that report would be part of it

Seeing as the police, the medical department and the Coroner deal with numerous such cases each year, it seems unlikely that there would be such a massive screw up.

@Paulina, you seem disproportionately upset, almost hysterical. You're accepting every word in the article, listening to a lot of hearsay and making a lot of assumptions. Without seeing the actual police report about the circumstances when they went to the flat you can't judge as to whether they should have secured the scene etc. Anyway, at this stage, discussing the details is becoming distasteful so as you say, let's leave it there and wait to see if there is any update.

In the meantime there is a mechanism for appealing a Coroner's verdict if the mother is not satisfied.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
10 May 2024 #206
That's the mother's paraphrasing. It's not the official verdict.

I know. But since we don't know the official conclusion made by the coroner that's all I can quote.

Seeing as the police, the medical department and the Coroner deal with numerous such cases each year, it seems unlikely that there would be such a massive screw up.

I'm sorry, Atch, but massive screw ups do happen in every country, even if in general, usually, the police and coroners are doing a good job. And we won't always know about such screw ups. We only know about this potential screw up, because the mother took it to the media. Not everyone has a parent who would have the balls and strength to do that, for example.

@Paulina, you seem disproportionately upset, almost hysterical.

Really? How does jon357 seem to you then? :))) After all that crap he wrote about me? He didn't seem to be "disproportionately upset, almost hysterical" to you yesterday? Sorry, Atch, but I don't think you're being objective.

We had an argument with jon357 yesterday. As usual he's getting on my nerves with his attitude, that's all.

whether they should have secured the scene etc.

You should always secure the scene and the evidence if you don't know why someone died. So what are you talking about?
Ironside 51 | 12,447
10 May 2024 #207
"disproportionately upset, almost hysterical"

He is right about it. I told you you are stupid, stupid.
---

Sorry, Atch, but I don't think you're being objective.

Of course not she hasn't agreed with you. lol!
---

he's getting on my nerves with his attitude, that's all.

So you admit to being hysterical - nice,
Paulina 17 | 4,459
10 May 2024 #208
Anyway, at this stage, discussing the details is becoming distasteful

Why on Earth is it "becoming distasteful"? What are you talking about?

let's leave it there and wait to see if there is any update.

That's what I wrote yesterday, but you're starting all over again today.

In the meantime there is a mechanism for appealing a Coroner's verdict if the mother is not satisfied.

We don't know if the mother knew about it at that time and, besides, she may not trust the British police and coroners at this point and maybe that's why she wanted to have a second autopsy in Poland. Either way, Sandra's body is apparently in Poland already, so it's done anyway.
Paulina 17 | 4,459
10 May 2024 #209
You're accepting every word in the article, listening to a lot of hearsay

No, I'm not. I repeatedly wrote that I'm giving the info that is available. And since the British police didn't respond in any way to the accusations of negligence I'm more inclined to believe the mother, Sandra's friends and the detective FOR NOW, that's all. If you prefer to believe the British police, etc. then that's your choice. It's your business.

Btw, this is what I wrote in my second comment in this thread in response to jon357:

For now it looks to me like shocking police incompetence. We'll see what Polish autopsy will show, but I don't know if it isn't too late - it's been 4 months already... :(

And as you can see my stance didn't change.
mafketis 37 | 10,848
10 May 2024 #210
massive screw ups do happen in every country, even if in general

English speakers on the forum tend to get very salty any time some aspect of their countries is criticized....

That's why the automatic assumption is that their system worked! It always works! And the search to find fault with some Polish person rather than admit that screw ups can happen and this hardly looks like an open and shut case.

That said.... there's always the possibility that further investigation (which I support) might uncover things that the mother might have preferred it didn't.

I'm just keeping an open mind in all directions.


Home / UK, Ireland / Polish immigrants in the UK - victims or criminals?!