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Białowieża National Park in Poland


Ironside 49 | 10,204
14 Sep 2017 #61
I have no clue about the issue so I have no opinion. I wish that government would explain it batter than it does. After all that minister is some kind of experts on forestry a Professor. I assume that he knows what he is doing.
mafketis 23 | 8,207
14 Sep 2017 #62
Interesting article here on how the forest is already changed beyond recognition....

wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/co-naprawde-piszczy-w-puszczy/c9n5vwk

Instead of tourist trails there are now muddy ruts from heavy equipment. Instead of birds singing in the forest the whine of machines is heard, instead of deer, it's easier to see the orange coveralls of treecutters. Are these actions really for the good of the forest?

(Zamiast turystycznych szlaków, są tam dziś błotniste rowy po ciężkim sprzęcie. Zamiast śpiewu ptaków, w lesie słychać ryk maszyn. Zamiast saren, łatwiej zobaczyć ubranych w pomarańczowe kombinezony pilarzy. Czy rzeczywiście są to działania dla dobra puszczy?)

They're wrecking the forest because that's all PiS knows how to do, wreck things, Pride of Poland, rule of law, separation of powers, education, białowieża... I'm not gonna buy any of the "I had no idea!" crap from their supporters when it becomes clear to more people.
Ironside 49 | 10,204
14 Sep 2017 #63
Interesting article

onet.pl is a site firmly on the side of the total opposition. Paid by the German money. I don't think this article can be trusted.

Besides unless you're an expert in forestry you have no clue either if the action of the PiS grovemnat in this regard is for good or for bad.
mafketis 23 | 8,207
14 Sep 2017 #64
Besides unless you're an expert in forestry you have no clue

More experts seem to be saying that Szyszko is wrong than right - he doesn't even believe that it's virgin forest so I have my doubts about him...

Not to mention the 'forester's daughter' business which looked extremely crooked...
Roger5 1 | 1,458
14 Sep 2017 #65
The vast majority of scientists, both in Poland and abroad, have deplored the rape of the forest. Szyszko is totally outnumbered on this. It's like climate change. 99.9% of those qualified to comment accept it's happening, and then there are people like donald trump, who knows nothing, but declares it a hoax. I'll be in the forest the weekend after next, so I'll see for myself what's happening.
delphiandomine 83 | 18,192
14 Sep 2017 #66
More experts seem to be saying that Szyszko is wrong than right

It's not hard to figure out why Szyszko has this position. It's certainly not based on science, and his "religious" arguments don't hold up when you look at his personal history.

Not to mention the 'forester's daughter' business which looked extremely crooked...

Tip of the iceberg, if you ask me.
G (undercover)
14 Sep 2017 #67
The vast majority of scientists, both in Poland and abroad, have deplored the rape of the forest. Szyszko is totally outnumbered on this.

Really ? Do you have any statistics to back it up ? It rather seems to be split.

Dudes screaming about it are mainly the Belgium fascist, who will soon try to dictate us when and where we should be allowed to walk our dogs and fatal opposition clowns, who are getting more and more hysterical as their ratings are getting down to the new lows.

Gov should handle it better in regard to communication thought.
cms 9 | 1,271
14 Sep 2017 #68
The logging is strongly opposed by the WWF, UNESCO and Greenpeace. None of these entities are controlled either by the Polish opposition or by Brussels.

If opinion is split, could you name any organisations not connected with the government that support this logging ?
Chemikiem 6 | 2,115
14 Sep 2017 #69
spruce is definitely not a fire-adapted tree-

Yes it is.

Besides unless you're an expert in forestry you have no clue either if the action of the PiS grovemnat in this regard is for good or for bad.

You don't need to be an expert but PiS must think that people are really stupid if they believe that the only way to deal with the bark beetle infestation is to extensively log the forest. Białowieża is one of the last remaining parts of primeval forest left, it has been there for a very very very long time, so bark beetle infestation is nothing new. Somehow the forest has managed to survive all this time, so why would PiS try and convince people it needs to be logged now?

Make no mistake, this is about money and nothing else. It is criminal that this is being allowed to happen. Once it's gone it's gone forever.
mafketis 23 | 8,207
14 Sep 2017 #70
Białowieża is one of the last remaining parts of primeval forest left,

Szyszko claims it's not primeval at all but has always been managed.....
cms 9 | 1,271
14 Sep 2017 #71
So he should probably stroll over to the Foreign Ministry and have a word since their official website refers to it as Europes last natural forest ecosystem. In fact there are many such mentions in official literature.

BTW is G a cut price replacement for Polonius ? Difficult to get the staff these days.
Braveheart16 18 | 185
14 Sep 2017 #72
Supporters of PIS turning a blind eye to the logging.......sounds like what happened with the concentration camps during WW2..people turning a blind eye, very easy, very convenient so long as I and my family are alright, short term planning...very stupid...it really is quite sad and disgusting that people can be so selfish and greedy...they really don't deserve to be allowed a vote in politics or really offer any view whatsoever because these supporters really are unable to appreciate the bigger picture....very narrow minded and selfish....how sad and what do the Polish youth see in this...what do they learn from this sad episode...what do they think....who knows.
Ironside 49 | 10,204
14 Sep 2017 #73
You don't need to be an expert

No, you don't need to be an expert to express your OPINION on the subject. To make an informed comment you need to be one.

the only way to deal with the bark beetle

Well, do you have any data that would indicate that other methods would be sufficient in this case?

'Białowieża is one of the last remaining parts of primeval forest left'
Well, a whole bundle of good it has done to Poland. I mean all those people from different countries that are so concerned about Polish forest long after they striped their own landscapes bare. I mean - really?

Let Poles worry about that one - OK?

UNESCO and Greenpeace. N

Both are tools of some crazy ideological bias with one of then being as close to be eco-red-terrorist as they came.
The WWF I don't know about.
delphiandomine 83 | 18,192
14 Sep 2017 #74
Well, a whole bundle of good it has done to Poland.

Nothing much at all, just a growing tourist industry there that was on course to provide significantly more income than logging for locals.

Still, Ironside, we know your opinion on the matter: ideology matters far more than anything else.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,115
14 Sep 2017 #75
Szyszko claims it's not primeval at all but has always been managed.....

Why am I not surprised by this........

For me, this statement sums it up:-

" In neighboring Belarus, the Belovezhskaya Pushcha national park is also affected by the bark beetle, but the Belarusians are not undertaking any large-scale logging, Vasily Filimonov, chief forester of the Belarusian park, told Poland's Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper.

"The logging I observed a month ago in the Polish part of the forest is huge," he said, "disproportionate to the need to fight beetles."

politico.eu/article/poland-brussels-fight-over-primeval-bialowieza-forest
delphiandomine 83 | 18,192
14 Sep 2017 #76
For me, this statement sums it up:-

When even the Belarusians are criticising it, there's really something wrong.
Ironside 49 | 10,204
14 Sep 2017 #77
Vasily Filimonov, chief forester of the Belarusian park, told Poland's Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper.

Sure Belarusian voice and GW lol!
That GW is producing fake news that is they trademark now.
----
Sadly Poland has no opposition. well, I wonder what Kuziz has to say.. about that logging.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,115
14 Sep 2017 #78
other methods would be sufficient

Why do any other methods need to be employed? That forest has survived for all this time without intervention, which must surely tell you something, and undoubtedly has suffered bark beetle infestation before, so why not just leave it alone?

a whole bundle of good it has done to Poland.

Tourists pay quite a lot of money to have tours of the forest, I have seen them advertised. It is a jewel in Poland's crown.
Ironside 49 | 10,204
14 Sep 2017 #79
so why not just leave it alone?

I don't know. As I said I'm not an expert on forestry. As I see it the only opposition there is Kukiz15 says nothing on the subject.

Some commie organizations. fake news commie GW and total opposition i.e. traitors, criminals and tools are not a good source of info. they are not to be trusted/
delphiandomine 83 | 18,192
14 Sep 2017 #80
You know, it's sad to watch you support the Communist tradition of using natural resources for short term benefit, Ironside. You're always so anti-communist that you should be the first to recognise that Polish nature should be kept for future generations, rather than being destroyed for the sake of profits for the privileged few.

By the way, the Minister of the Environment now claims that it's being done for "public safety". One wonders why the forest can't simply be closed for humans if it's a public safety issue.
G (undercover)
14 Sep 2017 #81
Supporters of PIS turning a blind eye to the logging.......sounds like what happened with the concentration camps during WW2..

Just another example how crazy you lefties have become.

Said the "liberal democrat" :)))
Chemikiem 6 | 2,115
14 Sep 2017 #82
I don't know. As I said I'm not an expert in forestry.

Neither am I Iron, but common sense tells me that if bark beetle infestation is that devastating, then the forest would surely have disappeared a long time ago.What will disappear though is the wildlife the forest currently supports if logging continues to the extent it does now.

fake news commie GW and total opposition i.e. traitors, criminals and tools are not a good source of info. they are not to be trusted/

Do you trust and believe everything the government says? What makes you think this isn't all about the money?
delphiandomine 83 | 18,192
14 Sep 2017 #83
Do you trust and believe everything the government says? What makes you think this isn't all about the money?

Of course it's all about the money. It's very easy to figure out why when you know who is processing the wood.
Ironside 49 | 10,204
14 Sep 2017 #84
Do you trust and believe everything the government says? What makes you think this isn't all about the money?

No, I don't but as long as I won't receive a new data or info to the contrary I'll grant them benefit of a doubt.
Braveheart16 18 | 185
14 Sep 2017 #85
G undercover......I have to say that I have never met you before and you clearly don't know me so calling me a leftie is really a weak response to a topic which worries you.....I think you probably know that the logging issue is wrong but just can't bring yourself to admit it.....sorry but you really need to look at the evidence....
Chemikiem 6 | 2,115
14 Sep 2017 #86
I'll grant them benefit of a doubt.

Your choice of course but I cannot agree, and I would feel the same if this had happened under PO. You can disbelieve what UNESCO, Greenpeace etc say, but what cannot be ignored is the scale of the logging taking place. Take away the trees and you take away the Bison and other animal and plant species.
mafketis 23 | 8,207
15 Sep 2017 #87
PiS must think that people are really stupid

The polls would tend to suggest that they are right. As long as they get their 500 a month they dont' care what happens to some trees.... 500 a month and a compliant client class of voters is created.

people from different countries that are so concerned about Polish forest long after they striped their own landscapes bare.

That just makes białowieża more valuable as somehting that other countries don't have.

Take away the trees and you take away the Bison and other animal and plant species.

Bourgeois animals! Class enemies of the brave proletarian tree cutters!
Ironside 49 | 10,204
15 Sep 2017 #88
500 a month and a compliant client class of voters is created.

That is a vey nasty thing to say and untrue. PiS won long before 500 plus had been introduced. In fact there is no evidence that this plays a significant role in the support PiS enjoy. Apart of course for snarky remarks of the total opposition (traitors) and same snobby knobs. U shouldn't listen to them.

Stick to the topic please
gumishu 11 | 5,148
15 Sep 2017 #89
Tourists pay quite a lot of money to have tours of the forest, I have seen them advertised. It is a jewel in Poland's crown.

will tourists pay to see this?

dead spruce Białowieża

or maybe this

more dead spruce
Roger5 1 | 1,458
15 Sep 2017 #90
Yes. In the 'strict reserve' they allow fallen trees to rot where they fall, when they are windblown or diseased. They provide habitats for all kinds of insect and fungal life. The rotting trees feed the earth nutrients which plants use. Ruminants eat the plants and disperse the seeds through zoochary. Life goes on. The birch bark beetle has to live, too. The forest has survived for a long time. Only man can kill it.


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