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Białowieża National Park in Poland


CasualObserver
19 Apr 2018 #451
Poland should stop paying in to the EU.

Poland receives much more than it pays in - it's the biggest recipient of EU funds.

But Poland can easily invoke Article 50 and tell the EU it's leaving, if it wants to. Why not? Is it because they really do need the money after all, very much indeed, and the tariff-free access to EU markets? The EU is not just about funds, it's mostly about access to trade and markets.

Germans, French have much more to loose than Poland if they want to take to blows.

I don't think so, mate. The Russians don't share a border with those countries and consider it their front porch and 'sphere of influence'. But carry on with the daydreams.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,536
19 Apr 2018 #452
It WAS the biggest beneficiary - it received almost all the money it was going to and the rest paid till 2020.

It's so sad watching the eu try to make receiving funds contingent on having an agreeable political position (basically having a leftist party as the elected majority and a leftist president). Now theyre even going after obran - and good this will only further unite all the people who voted for him and the large majority in parliament. The eu has become waaaaay too politicized. Never was it stated that a country has to take in migrants and cannot log a forest as a condition of receiving eu funds. EU only enforces rules as it feels - namely again if the country is riled by eurocrats ur fine... like Spain you can get away with violently suppressing referendums and no one will care about th4 gdp to debt requirements. No they won't enforce laws against eurocrats. But go against the eu and they'll tell.you funds and contingent on receiving migrants which was never agreed upon or written as a rule. But the eu feels it can make up rules and enforce them if the country is going against them and resist their attempts to destroy sovereignty. But kiss the eus behind and you can treat the citizenry and use unethical and illegal actics against the local political opposition
Atch 17 | 3,234
19 Apr 2018 #453
It WAS the biggest beneficiary - it received almost all the money it was going to

I explained this to you before:

"Poland will still get funding and will be eligible for rebates. And very importantly the EUbudget only finances projects in policy areas where all EU countries have agreed that if they join forces at Union level, they can achieve better results at lower cost than if they acted at a national level. Consider it as a club where the benefits of membership are greater than than the cash value of the membership fee"

Now theyre even going after obran

Earth to Dirk, come in Dirk - they've been going after him as you put it, for at least two years already. To paraphrase the Good Book, 'the mills of the EU grind slowly but they grind exceedingly small' :)

And why do you mention migrants in every thread?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,038
19 Apr 2018 #454
Because he is a migrant himself.
CasualObserver
19 Apr 2018 #455
It's so sad watching the eu try to make receiving funds contingent on having an agreeable political position

No, it's just about having a functioning democracy with an independent judiciary and rule of law. As set out in the Lisbon Treaty that Poland willingly signed.

That's how UK can have a right-wing conservative govt for most of its time in EU, so can Ireland, so can Estonia etc.

Notice how the EU is not 'after' Austria, despite a hard shift the right? That's because the Austrian govt hasn't taken over the judiciary and doesn't rush through reform votes in the middle of the night.

To people like Dirk, politics is 'leftist' if it is anywhere left of the Putin model and the Trump 'oaths of loyalty'.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,536
19 Apr 2018 #456
Because it all boils down to that elephant in the room. EU wants to force poland to take in large groups of migranrs. Also the word migrant was the most commonly used word in news headlines in 2017. So it's obviously an important topic and its what will ultimately determine Europe's future. Look in how short of a time how many problems have comr out of the migrant crisis in countries that accepted them. What's it been less than 5 years and in that time you have dozens of terrors attacks, hundreds died due to said attacks, thousands upon thousands of grope/rape cases, billions to help support people who arent even citizens and entered illegally - Germany spends more on migrants than education, and all the discrimination people have felt from the migrants including a guy beat up.for wearing a yarmulke - if he was a woman he couldve easilt been raped...

And atch those rebates and other bs will not be worth tens of billions of euros as the structural and other funds. Therefore imo, poland shojld.just wait it out till 2020, take the money and run unless the eu begins to stop pushing a leftist agenda upon people.

And no the eu has NEVER stipulated that funds would be cut if democratically elected parties act out campaign promises - in this case pis undoing the court stuffing of po and all the other illegal stuff. Never has eu said that receipt of funds are contingent upon how elected politician(s) act. Funny how eu never said when po was using much of the same tactics as pis is today as far as treating media and opposition. Tusk was merkels lap dog so they got away with it along with the millioms embezzled from eu funds.

And the reason why eu doesnt sweat austria or other countries is because theyre not as vocal nor are they rebelling against the eu order quite like hungary and poland. In fact article 7 was triggered against poland before hungary. And what is the whole point of sanctioning hungary Now? Its because eu is mad that obran won and can now finally make the changes he wants. And he's vocal about it thats why they hate him. He's an inspiration to europeans who want to take their continent back and they dont appreciate that.

This logging thing is just another pretext. I guaruntee if it were germany or sweden or brussels or some other eurocrat country logging stuff the eu wouldnt say a thing much less try to fine them. They only.enforce laws they want and Spain was a perfect example.of how far theyll let things slide for a loyal.eurocrat
Atch 17 | 3,234
19 Apr 2018 #457
This logging thing is just another pretext.

For you to talk about migrants :))
CasualObserver
19 Apr 2018 #458
I guaruntee if it were germany or sweden or brussels or some other eurocrat country logging stuff the eu wouldnt say a thing

You really don't follow events very closely, do you?

Basically all EU countries regularly breach EU environmental laws, and receive judgements. Here are recent cases against UK, Netherlands, Italy, Germany, Sweden, Belgium: ec.europa.eu/environment/legal/law/press_en.htm

The difference with Poland is that it is unprecedented for a state to IGNORE the judgement, and carry on knowingly breaking the EU law they signed up to. This is why the case went to the higher court.

Why do you even bother commenting on things that you know virtually nothing about? It's ridiculously easy to flag up your lack of knowledge and torpedo what you say. You sound like a Commie era spokesman claiming "everything's fine in the shipyards". Stick to what you know about - some of it's useful. You comments on this subject are neither knowledgeable or useful.
mafketis 23 | 8,543
19 Apr 2018 #459
Why do you even bother commenting on things that you know virtually nothing about?

What's left?
Ironside 49 | 10,375
20 Apr 2018 #460
Poland receives much more

Let, clear that misunderstanding once for all. Those funds are peanuts. We are talking about a whole country. It is more complex more, more interconnected and more two way street that a simple issue of given grants to an individual or a firm.

Those funds are no charity, it is a compensation to Poland for opening a 40 million market to the EU firms.
Clearly those funds are doing more harm than good.

But Poland can easily invoke Article 50 and tell the EU it's leaving, if it wants to. Why not?

Because is addicted to those funds like a junkie.
Corruption, behind the scene strong groups of interest are putting pressure on whoever is in charge to keep that pipeline open.

The EU is not just about funds, it's mostly about access to trade and markets.

In this case it seems to be one way highway. France and Germany not so long ago introduced laws that curtailed free access to trade and markets for successful Polish companies. Poland should retaliate but as always we are back at the square one - pussies, fools or corrupted scum in charge.

As to being next to Russia. The EU has nothing to do with Poland security and never will . If anything German Russian games are rather detrimental to it.
CasualObserver
20 Apr 2018 #461
Those funds are peanuts....Those funds are no charity, it is a compensation to Poland for opening a 40 million market to the EU firms.

Those funds are 100 billion euros over the next 7 years. That's about 4% of annual GDP, which is a big amount, not peanuts.

Also, Poland's 38 million popultion (not 40 m) are not exactly high spenders because of the low wages - it's not a lucrative market for selling. However, in return Poland has tariff free access to a market of 500 million (the EU), which means it has an export advantage due to low wages in Poland and high sales value abroad.

So Poland gains a huge advantage by being in the EU. If it wasn't, it would have trade barriers at every border and be trying to sell to Ukraine and Belarus, which are not exactly lucrative markets compared to the wealthy Germans, British and French who will buy Polish goods and invest in production in Poland.

So I'm not sure where you get the 'one way highway' from. How do you think Poland avoided recession after the 2008 crash? It was selling to the rest of the EU!


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