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Białowieża National Park in Poland


Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #421
@Casual Observer

Then they can fine us, which they threatened to do but are too weak and impotent to carry out. All bark no bite just like with the migrants, the logging, abortion, court reforms, etc etc.

Till then well keep doing what we want, keep getting billions in eu funds, tell the eu to shove it, while timmermans affirms poland faces no cuts to eu funds amd article 7 is doomed

Hhahahahahaha play with the big boys? You mean the lefty cucks who cant even control their own borders and let radicals set up shop, rape their women, bomb their buildings? Please lol eu is weaker than ever and the fact that poland amd v4 played it like a lil ***** proves that
mafketis 23 | 7,892
29 Jan 2018 #422
therapy shrinks etc are for only weak minded people and cucks who think theyre one of 70 genders or have some newly discovered disorder

You are one angry little cub scout, some therapy might get to the root of it which would spare you the trouble of projecting your unresolved feelings of rage onto the Polish nation (which has bigger fish to fry than being your emotional proxy).

Then they can fine us, which they threatened to do but are too weak and impotent to carry out

It would be a very unwise person who ever signs a contract with you, as you'll feel entitled to ignore it the moment it becomes inconvenient.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #423
Onto the polish nation? Nah more like against anyone who threatens the sovereignty of poland and the traditional conservative christian anti migrant society to which the vast majority of polish citizens belong

Again let the eu fine poland then if they dont like it. Kick us out..suspend our voting rights... do your worst. Except theyve tried and failed, again and again. Now theyre even affirming poland can keep doing what it wants and itll.still get eu funds rofl!!! Thats the reality man
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #424
You are one angry little cub scout

He spends a lot of time ranting on the internet, doesn't he? Numerous threads at once, always asserting 'us', 'our' in relation to Poland, when he lives in the USA.

I think he's one of these poor kids from immigrant families who have an identity problem. Can't fit in in America, so he thinks he's really Polish, when in reality he doesn't fit in there either. Doesn't really know who he is, poor kid.

Nah more like against anyone who threatens the sovereignty of poland and the traditional conservative christian

Not a fan of the Tatars, then? They'll be sorry to hear that...
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #425
Oh I know who I am - a Polish citizen who is applauding the efforts of PiS pwning the EU, a born and raised Polak who is laughing at the EU's impotence for allowing Poland to do whatever it wants while still receiving billions in EU funds - which timmermans just affirmed. What a bunch of cucks in the EU - no wonder their whole system is failing now

Not a fan of the Tatars, then? They'll be sorry to hear that...

Tatars are great - they too fought against the Muslim Turksih invaders on behalf of the Commonwealth. Perhaps again we'll join forces against the invaders. Unlike the muslim migrants in France, Germany, etc. the Polish Tatars don't pop out 10 kids, draw welfare their whole life, bomb buildings, mow people down with vans, shoot up cafe's and concerts with AKs, don't carry scabies or other diseases, etc.

You're just salty that Poland can keep doing whatever it wants and the EU can't do **** - they're all bark, no bite. No fines, no sanctions, all threats taken back, and billions of eu funds will continue to pour in according to timmerman's recent statements
vczvz
29 Jan 2018 #426
"Otherwise, it can get used to speaking Russian again."

you mean ukrainian cause as far as iunderstand russia hasnt even went in there yet except crimea so why would poland be any different? even without nato I mean.
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #427
Oh I know who I am - a Polish citizen

Dual citizen, living in USA.

There's a word for you, sunshine: 'diaspora'. That's what you are.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #428
Dual citizen, living in USA.

Yes, with Poland being one of the countries of my citizenship. Therefore giving me more rights and privileges than any non-citizen resident in Poland. This is a moot point really. Seems to me you're just jealous/angry that I can exercise my right to vote in Poland and you can't - just like a bunch of other loudmouths here who are merely residents yet are twice as opinionated as any PL citizen.

This has what to do with logging and the EU's impotence exactly? Last time I checked the EU threatened to fine Poland for all sorts of things - NONE of which came to fruition... pathetic lol
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #429
Polish Tatars don't pop out 10 kids, draw welfare their whole life, bomb buildings, mow people down with vans, shoot up cafe's and concerts with AKs, don't carry scabies or other diseases, etc.

Very true. You can't get AK's in many European countries. You can in American though, where those good white Christians like to spray them around concerts, schools, pretty much anywhere.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #430
Except blacks according to FBI statistics have by far the highest homicide rates, despite being only about 13-14% of the population.

This has what to do with EU's failure to force it's will upon Poland exactly?
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #431
Therefore giving me more rights and privileges than any non-citizen resident in Poland

Actually, as an EU citizen I've got a few nice cards to play that ou don't have. Y'see, Poland doesn't recognise dual citizenship, so in Poland, you're not an American, with no consulate rights. You can be imprisoned, made to pay taxes, conscripted into the army if they bring it back, and basically shat on, while we EU citizens can breeze in and out as we please. Sweet!

There's an EU hearing in February about the logging case. The fines have been issued, but are pending depending on whether the logging stops or not. So nobody's won anything yet. Except Szyszko's out of a job, which i think you'd call 'losing'.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #432
Except as a Polish citizen I also have EU citizenship = )

Y'see, Poland doesn't recognise dual citizenship, so in Poland, you're not an American, with no consulate rights.

Completely innacurate. In fact, it clearly states in the Polish constitution as well as the MFA's website.

Which doesn't really matter anyway, as I am a Polish citizen by birth and blood.
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #433
Except blacks according to FBI statistics have by far the highest homicide rates

Yeah, I hear about all those black school shootings by teenage black kids. And I heard about that black guy in a hotel in Las Vegas, emptying machine guns into a concert. I saw that guy on TV. Very black, he was. Looked like Jay-Z. Just like him. And I saw that black guy in Charlottesville, driving that black guy's car. So many crazy black guys!

Completely innacurate. In fact, it clearly states in the Polish constitution as well as the MFA's website that Poland DOES recognize dual citizenships

Citation, if you please.

Cos Polish authorities don;t recognise your dual citizenship. You can HAVE it (i.e. not have to rescind a passport), but not exercise dual rights:

A Polish citizen may hold Polish citizenship and the citizenship of another country at the same time. If an individual holds dual citizenship - Polish and that of another country - the individual has the same rights and obligations in respect to the Republic of Poland as a person who has only Polish citizenship. This means that a Polish citizen cannot rely with legal effect on the citizenship of another country and on the rights and obligations resulting thereof in dealings with Polish authorities.

Except as a Polish citizen I also have EU citizenship = )

Yeah, but because other EU nationals DON'T have Polish citizenship, they have more freedoms in Poland than you do as a dual national, becuase they can exercise EU and national rights, outside of the Polish system.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #434
Yup, that's why the FBI says that blacks commit more homicides than any other race despite being only 13% of population.

Here's a few other facts:

·There are dramatic race differences in crime rates. Asians have the lowest rates, followed by whites, and then Hispanics. Blacks have notably high crime rates. This pattern holds true for virtually all crime categories and for virtually all age groups.

·In 2013, a black was six times more likely than a non­black to commit murder, and 12 times more likely to murder someone of another race than to be murdered by someone of another race.

·In 2014 in New York City, a black was 31 times more likely than a white to be arrested for murder, and a Hispanic was 12.4 times more likely. For the crime of "shooting"-defined as firing a bullet that hits someone-a black was 98.4 times more likely than a white to be arrested, and a Hispanic was 23.6 times more likely.

·If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent.

·In an all­-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.
Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.
In 2001, there were 600,593 blacks in state and federal prisons and 35.4 million blacks in the US population, for an incarceration rate of 1,695 per 100,000. The white incarceration rate was 236 per 100,000.

they have more freedoms in Poland than you do as a dual national, becuase they can exercise EU and national rights, outside of the Polish system.

Oh really? They have more freedoms huh? So why for example are they not allowed to vote in a presidential election in Poland then?

This means that a Polish citizen cannot rely with legal effect on the citizenship of another country and on the rights and obligations resulting thereof in dealings with Polish authorities.

No ****.... regardless, I, along with the 38 million other Polish citizens living in PL, have more rights under the Polish constitution and Polish law than a mere resident - including voting. It's the almost same in every country - if you go to Mexico as a Mexican-American the Mexican authorities look at you as a Mexican citizen and you have the privileges and obligations of such...
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #435
regardless, I, as a Polish citizen, have more rights under the Polish constitution and Polish law than a mere resident - including voting.

*Only* voting in domestic elections, actually. I can vote in EU elections. But the real killer is that in return for that domestic vote, you get all of the responsibilities too, while I can walk away! Now THAT'S a good deal, my son!
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #436
I can vote in EU elections

Big deal so can I, as a card holding EU citizen

*Only* voting in domestic elections, actually

Polish citizen, unlike resident, can vote in any election i.e. presidential which a resident cannot vote in.

Straight from US embassy - Polish citizens who became naturalized American citizens after January 8, 1951 do not lose their Polish citizenship under Polish law, unless they formally renounce Polish citizenship with the consent of the Polish government. In addition, children born to one American citizen parent and one Polish citizen parent usually are both American and Polish in accordance with the citizenship laws of the respective countries.

Now can we go back to talking about the EU's impotence and incompetence? This isn't a thread about citizenship - it's about 'Bialowieza National Park in Poland' - which the EU has threatened (one of many threats) to fine Poland but did nothing (just like they did nothing about all the other threats)
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #437
which the EU has threatened (one of many threats) to fine Poland but did nothing

wait - till - february.

The EU HAS fined poland, but the fine is pending good behaviour. If PiS do as they're told and accept their obligations, then no fine. If the 'hippies' you hate so much give footage to ClientEarth Polish lawyers to show the EU court that logging is continuing, then it's 100k euro per day.

So we'll both just have to wait and see. You can go out and make some of your 'tech sales', to fund the copious quantities of skunk that make you so angry, dense and forgetful.

Polish citizen, unlike resident, can vote in any election i.e. presidential which a resident cannot vote in.

Polish resident, unlike citizen, has supora-national court and consulate support to defend them against any Polish domestic charges, doesn't have to pay tax in Poland, and gets free healthcare without paying for it domestically. If a Polish fits me up and puts me in jail, I have the consulate defence to help me get out, because my non-Polish citizenship and rights are valid. Yours are not, because you're a Pole in Poland, not an American. Yee-haw!
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #438
The EU HAS fined poland, but the fine is pending good behaviour

No it hasn't. No $100k a day fine was issued for logging, no $2 bil euro for refusing to take in migrants, NOTHING lol... The only thing on the table now is Article 7 which the EU knows is doomed. And more recently Timmermans kissing both of Poland's cheeks by saying PiS can keep doing what it wants with the courts, migrants, etc. and they will STILL continue to receive EU funds.

100k euro per day.

Guess theyll have to ramp production to account for an extra fixed cost then.

'hippies' you hate so much give footage to ClientEarth Polish

I'm sure they'll continue to arrest trespassers and those disturbing the peace as they did before.

If a Polish fits me up and puts me in jail, I have the consulate defence to help me get out, because my non-Polish citizenship and rights are valid.

Wanna test that theory?

As a cudoziemiec, the courts would do whatever they want with you - not to mention the people you'd be locked up with. The consulate can only make sure that you're not having your human rights violated. However, you'd be tried according to the laws of Poland - not another country. So your lack of citizenship would actually make things worse for you. Plus, your residency would likely be compromised or even cancelled.

fairtrials.org/arrested-abroad/arrested-in/arrested-in-poland
Although there is a presumption that people should be given bail (i.e. that they should be released pending trial), but it is often harder for most foreign nationals to get bail. There is a common tendency to assume that if you do not have a place of residence in Poland, you are more likely to flee if released before your trial.
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #439
No it hasn't. No $100k a day fine was issued for logging,

Wrong. The fine level was set (100k, euros, not dollars baby, ours are worth more!), the date was set, and all that is needed now is evidence of contravention for the fine to kick in. Hence the word P-E-N-D-I-N-G that I used (see, you're still learning new words, great!).
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,502
29 Jan 2018 #440
The fine lebel was set over a year ago and nothings been brought up since and no fine or even a repeated threat has been brought up since last year

100k eu is nothing. They can just cut 100k worth more of trees to account for an extra fixed cost

The pm publicly said that theyll continue to fell so what is the eu waiting for? Looks to everyone that this fizzled out jist like their 2 bil eu fine for refusing to take in parasites terrorists and ninja women
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #441
The fine lebel was set over a year ago and nothings been brought up since

Wrong again. The fine level was set in November (less than 3 months ago). There is a hearing to assess infringment next month.

100k eu is nothing.

Oh really? This is 414,000 zloty PER DAY. So, if evidence shows that logging was continuing since end of November, then so far the bill is 24.8 MILLION zloty. That's just until today.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
29 Jan 2018 #442
What is it about joining the EU that you don't get,

Ha! Post of the thread so far. You are missing the point a little though. Some are here, or enter on this board to have an argument with themselves, not to be reasonable or logical, or enter into debate about the EU and all it entails.

Dirk likes to play the "concerned citizen" when in fact his views count for nothing, because he doesn't live here and likely never will.
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #443
Your typing is getting quite sporadic and disjointed now, so whatever you're 'enjoying' there at home is beginning to kick in! Yay for you! Dat's some GOOOOOD SHEEEEEET, yeah?!

We'll see. Personally, yeah, I think Poland will just refuse to pay (or pay all), and it will drag on for years. Maybe until the next budget round, or change of government. But the damage to Poland's reputation is quite profound - it's being seen less as a partner and more of a buffer. It's a shame, as Poland could have been a major player within the EU, and was shaping up that way, but yer pays yer money and teks yer choice.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
29 Jan 2018 #444
anti migrant society to which the vast majority of polish citizens belong

To their eternal shame. I would kick my wife into touch if she was one of those people. I couldn't live with some old hypocritical bigot lacking any brain cells.

Each to their own I suppose. I hope it chokes them.

a bunch of other loudmouths here who are merely residents yet are twice as opinionated as any PL citizen.

Someone has to educate his neighbour about the wrongs and rights of the matter Dirk. Happy to be here.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,916
29 Jan 2018 #445
next budget round

Bingo. The EU doesn't need to fine Poland at all, it will simply be enough for the net payers to refuse to contribute anything to Poland. As soon as the PiS puppets realise that there's no EU funds to divert into their pockets, they'll soon find a new party led by more...pragmatic leadership.
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #446
Again, this thread isn't about citizenship, residency, where a poster lives, etc. Idk why people get so hung up on that instead of the topic at hand.

This is where you're mssing a fundamental point. Poland is in the EU, Bialowieza Forest is in the EU's Natura 2000 network, and so all EU citizens are contributing financially to regional development around Bialowieza, and to the management of the Natura 2000 network. All citizens in the EU also have 'ownership' of sites under the Habitat and Birds Directive.

So, citizenship matters, because it is citizens of Poland and the EU (especially net contributors: UK, Germany, France etc) who are part-funding development and conservation around Bialowieza.

Everyone who is resident in EU states is financially involved, in some small way. That includes pretty much everyone who has contributed on this thread - all except you. You live in the USA, you don't pay into the EU or Polish tax system, so none of your money goes anywhere near Bialoweiza.

That's why citizenship matters, and that's why your voice is the least important in thsi conservation, because you don't put your money where your mouth is. I do, Dougpol does, Delph does. You don't. You're an outsider.

Please keep to the topic of the thread
Ziemowit 13 | 3,829
17 Apr 2018 #447
The loging in Białowieża Forest was illegal in respect to the EU law - says the European Court of Justice today. Poland will not be fined, however, since the logging was stopped immediately after the new Minister of Environment, Henryk Kowalczyk, took over from the previous clown Minister of Environment Jan Szyszko.

Amen to that.
Ironside 49 | 10,108
17 Apr 2018 #448
The EU

Has no jurisdiction in Poland. No in regard in managing forest, logging and such.

be enough for the net payers to refuse to contribute

Oh shut up. That founds done more harm and good to Poland. If you look at the overall picture Poland doesn't need that few cents. IF they stop founds, Poland should stop paying in to the EU. Germans, French have much more to loose than Poland if they want to take to blows.

The only issue is here that PiS are pussies and PO are scum that can be bought and sold like a chattel.
cms neuf - | 1,337
17 Apr 2018 #449
Given that they turned up in court to defend themselves, that would indicate that the government accepts that the EU has some jurisdiction in this matter.

Driving round Poland on the last few months I am appalled by the amount of deforestation that I have seen both swathes of woodland and trees next to the road being cut down. Anybody Have some reliable info about how many trees have been affected in this way?
CasualObserver
19 Apr 2018 #450
Has no jurisdiction in Poland. No in regard in managing forest, logging and such.

Wrong. Bialowieza is not a timber farm. It is effectively an EU-designated reserve under the Habitats and Birds Directives. Poland happily signed up to this, and took the funding every year since. So there's your jurisdiction - willingly accepted by Poland.


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