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Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?


MareGaea 29 | 2,752
13 Apr 2010 #61
The idea is just too stupid to consider

It's more like stupid paranoya. Plain old paranoid thinking that the world is against you and they all want to get back at you.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
Jed - | 165
13 Apr 2010 #62
to only consider innocent and pure-as-virgin-snow propaganda version.

It doesn't mean that dirty-as-devil-black version is better...
wildrover 98 | 4,451
13 Apr 2010 #63
nobody is so stupid as to dare starting a war over this.

And this includes Russia...
ThePotatoe 2 | 38
13 Apr 2010 #64
i know what happened...
presidents plane was passin over Xaviers institute..
cyclops was target practising..
he aimed towards the plane and Ka BOOM
sorry..storm was not there..
Olga 1 | 330
13 Apr 2010 #65
The best predictor for someone's motives are past actions. So for Putin you need only look as far as Politkovskaya and other outspoken journalists, Yushchenko (dioxin poisoning), Litvinenko (polonium 210--of all poisons, oh my!). Why you think so many Russians (Putin's foes) flee to London? Putin is not a difficult man to decipher if you understand his mentality.
Jed - | 165
13 Apr 2010 #66
Why you think so many Russians (Putin's foes) flee to London?

Yes, London is full of Russian bloody hyenas .... Good for Russia to keep them outside.
Olga 1 | 330
13 Apr 2010 #67
Can you comprehend what you talking about? What are you?

Yes, I know exactly what I'm talking about. Try to not get so emotional--Putin certainly isn't. Putin's hero is Stalin (well known fact) and Putin's goal is to create Imperial Russia II with himself as czar. West stands in the way, so get rid of neighboring western influence in Georgia (recall tanks), Ukraine (recall attempted assasination of pro-west Yushchenko and election of Kremlin-backed Yanukovich), and now Poland (convenient "accident" removing pro-West pain-in-the-ass Kaczynski). Hitler and Stalin too had similar ambitions, Putin is simply following "tradition." Anyway, one does not become a lietenant colonel in the KGB and a two-term Russian president (soon third term once Medvedev is out) by being a wallflower with a high moral character. Why do you think everyone is so afraid of Putin (and YES, the world IS very afraid of him--with Russians the most scared because of the killings in Russia of Putin's opponents. This is not about Russia-Polish relations; this is all about politics and power.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
13 Apr 2010 #68
And what do you suppose Mr Putin is going to do about the Polish people that are part of the investigation into the crash...?

Are they all going to die some mysterious death in a car accident , or be shot by unknown assasins...???

Perhaps they will be simply brainwashed...?
Olga 1 | 330
13 Apr 2010 #69
do not underestimate the russian zest for revenge

Zest--you took the word right out of my mouth. Exactly that with Putin. Medvedev is simply his sock-puppet, as most people know.
richasis 1 | 420
13 Apr 2010 #70
Yes, London is full of Russian bloody hyenas .... Good for Russia to keep them outside.

Agreed. Good for Putin for finally getting rid of those who betray Russia.
Besides, it proves to be an internal affair hardly the scope of this event.
Olga 1 | 330
13 Apr 2010 #71
Are you aware that your ideas (such ideas) lead Poland and complete NATO/EU in military conflict with Russia? Are you aware that, if you are right, Russia in fact attacked one NATO country and started war, possible even nuclear war? Because Russia was motivated by revenge on Kaczynski, by your words?!

Communist Bloc Eastern Europe is a "preferable" option to WWIII, and Putin knows that's how the world feels. So they will let him have it in order to avoid war. As for future of Eastern Europeans & Russians--back to behind Iron Curtain. Proletariat serfs, like before.
Jed - | 165
13 Apr 2010 #72
As for future of Eastern Europeans & Russians--back to behind Iron Curtain. Proletariat serfs, like before.

Looks like you were frozen in Stalin times and preserved very well...
Olga 1 | 330
13 Apr 2010 #73
Not me, Comrade. Putin.
czar 1 | 143
13 Apr 2010 #74
poland is still suffering from the katyn today
russia is still benefiting from katyn since stalin times
stalin and katyn were based on revenge
wildrover 98 | 4,451
13 Apr 2010 #75
In case people are not aware...its very easy to bring down an aircraft , especially when its flying low on approach to an airport , one man with a hand portable missile can do it , not a problem..!

Doing this without leaving any shred of evidence is another matter..it just would not be possible...

This sad and terrible tragedy for Poland is simply a series of human errors made entirely by Polish people....

The Russians had no hand in this....
Jed - | 165
13 Apr 2010 #76
Not me, Comrade. Putin.

Never heard anything like that from mr putin. He is not an angel but it doesn't mean he is a devil.

You struggle against your own dreams and nightmares using stamps from old soviet newspapers. Relax - you are safe.
Olga 1 | 330
13 Apr 2010 #77
czar
Edited by: czar Today, 12:52 #75
poland is still suffering from the katyn today
russia is still benefiting from katyn since stalin times
stalin and katyn were based on revenge

And Poland is again getting her nose rubbed in it. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Jed - | 165
13 Apr 2010 #78
This sad and terrible tragedy for Poland is simply a series of human errors made entirely by Polish people....

I think this "airport" was not properly prepared for VIPs visit and for flight safety.

There is a complete chain of wrong decisions and no decisions. Including not to provide more equipment and more experienced staff for this "unofficial" visit. Now we all suffer.
arturrus - | 1
13 Apr 2010 #79
It's stupify.
I hope the actual root of this tragedy will be unrevealed. It's sad we can't get back people.

Russia with you.
asik 2 | 220
13 Apr 2010 #80
And Poland is again getting her nose rubbed in it. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Shut your mouth up, PLEASE Olga!!
You and most of others on PF here, wildrover included!!! making us Poles suffer much longer ...
We, Poles need time and we need time to mourn... don't desturb that!!!...
we need to re-think some things...
Olga 1 | 330
13 Apr 2010 #81
Who perpetrated Katyn I? Stalin I. And now Stalin II at Smolensk airport perpetrated Katyn II.

...its very easy to bring down an aircraft , especially when its flying low on approach to an airport , one man with a hand portable missile can do it , not a problem..!

So you are saying farmer neighbor next to airport has hand portable missile somewhere? Not very likely.

Doing this without leaving any shred of evidence is another matter..it just would not be possible...

On the contrary, if you are in charge and dictating the investigation and have KGB inside knowledge at your disposal--very possible and more than likely, in this case. Are you aware that Polish aviation investigators have not yet been permitted by Russian authorities to examine the crash site?

Here is excellent article written in Polish:
Jed - | 165
13 Apr 2010 #82
On the contrary,

Let's shut up together for sometime? Asik gave us a good advice.
Olga 1 | 330
13 Apr 2010 #83
Shut your mouth up, PLEASE Olga!!
You and most of others on PF here, wildrover included!!! making us Poles suffer much longer ...
We, Poles need time and we need time to mourn... don't desturb that!!!...
we need to re-think some things...

I too am Polish, kochani moji, and I am mourning as well, but angry. I am not trying to upset anyone, just warning to be prepared. Jescze Polska nie zginela...
Havok 10 | 912
13 Apr 2010 #84
Havok:

Matrix has you ...
Alx123 - | 180
13 Apr 2010 #85
The suggestion of a conspiracy is a bit ridiculous IMO. Why would Russia risk international condemnation over such an irrelevant issue (in the context of their geopolitical ambitions)? Where's the motive? If they wanted to punish Poland for something, they would have turned off the gas a long time ago. The suggestion on another thread of IMF involvement is even more ridiculous. How does assissinating the president guarantee Poland will accept IMF loans? As far as I'm aware, the prime minister has the decision making power there anyway.

Clearly this sad unfortunate event seems to have been the result of recklessness and possibly an 'over-eager' president. That and the Polish government's cheapness - packing everyone into one dodgy plane. I hope this will change the frustratingly thrifty attitude among much of Poland's ruling and business class, and make them realise that cheap is not always good.
Karamba - | 27
13 Apr 2010 #86
I have read what people from Smolensk write about plane crash on local forum here forum.smolensk.ws/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48375 and it's interesting that they say that weather that morning was initially quite clear but later suddenly deteriorated to such an extent that as one guy nicknamed Belikov put it in a message sent at 11.32 am local time (plane crashed had occured about 10.50 am): Fog is so thick that I can hardly see ground from my 9th floor flat's balcony.

So the weather had deteriorated quite much, suddenly and exactly at time and the place where presedential plane was supposed to land. And if you are supersticious enough then your imagination could produce whatever - from Joseph Stalin's spirit in woods to God's hand in sky depending on how much you like or dislike the people onboard.

There are at least two things which does not fit into the version that the Russians who alive would do it:

1. They would not try to divert flight to other cities then.
2. They would not need it as this president was likely to lose next elections.
Olga 1 | 330
13 Apr 2010 #87
There are at least two things which does not fit into the version that the Russians who alive would do it:

1. They would not try to divert flight to other cities then.
2. They would not need it as this president was likely to lose next elections.

But it is only unofficial Russian version claiming so-called "diversions" to other cities. And revenge would fit, no?

"The crash also took an icon of Poland's Solidarity freedom movement,
80-year-old Anna Walentynowicz. Workers at the Lenin Shipyard in
Gdansk went on strike when Walentynowicz was fired from her job as
a crane operator in August 1980 for her opposition activity.
That sparked strikes that spread to other plants across the nation, giving
rise to the movement that helped bring about the demise of communism
in Poland nine years later."

--The Associated Press
kyivpost.com/news/world/detail/63754/
Lenka 3 | 1,999
13 Apr 2010 #88
West stands in the way, so get rid of neighboring western influence

I don't see any point in this.It's not like Poland is going to disappear because of that crash.Of course it's a tragedy but we'll go trough it.
ThePotatoe 2 | 38
13 Apr 2010 #89
Lech has been assasinated by Jason Bourne.
Karamba - | 27
13 Apr 2010 #90
Olga :)) Revenge does not fit as professional politics is rather pragmatic business than amateurish emotional drama. People on streets can feel differently but people in office know the difference.

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