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Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?


welshguyinpola 23 | 463
14 Apr 2010 #181
Fools!! For someone to be assasinated they need to be important
, Ducky was far from it. In fact he was rather considered a joke by most other countries. I am enraged that he os bring buried at Wawel, that should be reserved for peopel who have actually made Poland wht it is today. Why is Obamam coming to the funeral? I suspect he was invited by the Polish government to make ducky look a lil more significant
f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Apr 2010 #182
when high visibility accidents like that happen, many people with mild mental problems feel justified to let their paranoia bloom out of control. Olga, get a grip.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #183
I had actually read a comment from a Polish prosecutor quoted in British media a day or two ago.

Polish prosecutor only commented that pilot was not pressured to land. Here is the article:

reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63B2Q820100412

But nothing has been heard of from Polish side concerning investigation. Others in Polish government, however, are already suspicous.

There was VERY bad blood between Kaczynksi and Putin/Tusk. Tusk and Kaczynski even had a falling out just few days earlier, which is why Putin only invited Tusk alone, and only after did Kaczynski go, without Tusk. Very convenient that Tusk was not on plane, no?
Jed - | 165
14 Apr 2010 #184
Tusk, if elected, will withdraw Poland from plans for missile defense shield=Putin very happy.

Might be I missed something but in your messages I founded only this argument for Russia to be involved.

It is actulally non-existing - US plans were changed and no missile defense system will be placed in Poland. The garantee is not Tusk or someone else but Russian-US new treaty - a conditions when Russia may quite.

If you call a new "Patriot" system "a missile defense" - no you are wrong, it's not a danger for Russia, just a garantee for Poles safety feelings.

But I really don't understand internal Polish situation - is it really possible that someone could be interested in this crash?
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #185
Don't forget, Russia is pro at blaming others...perfect example, 70 years of Katyn on Germans.

1990-1940=50
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #186
It is actulally non-existing - US plans were changed and no missile defense system will be placed in Poland.

You are right, Jed. The issue now is gas and pipeline running through Baltic, as well as Poland joining EU. As long as Poland is EU member, Russian gas will not go directly to Poland. Remember how pissed Russia was that Ukraine was to join and made their life miserable with cutting of gas supply? (Solution was to install Putin puppet Yanukovich). Poland does not want to be placed in same position. And remember how Georgia was punished for joining NATO? Tusk is next Putin puppet.
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #187
But nothing has been heard of from Polish side concerning investigation.

It was on BBC, I bet. Not much really but nothing to disprove what Russians have said so far.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #188
"EU risks losing Ukraine"
euobserver.com/9/29831

Solution in Ukraine was to install puppet Yanukovich. Now gas running smoothly ;-) So, Tusk will run for President (next Putin puppet), and very likely win. Next news you will here is that Poland is withdrawing from EU and getting gas supply straight from Russia. There's already talk in the news that EU currency in 2015 in Poland may be postponed/cancelled, depending on stability of political situation.
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #189
As long as Poland is EU member, Russian gas will not go directly to Poland.

As far as I know they will build a branch of pipeline going from Nord Stream to Kaliningrad from where it could go directly to Poland too, perhaps.
AdamKadmon
14 Apr 2010 #190
Piękne są te wasze rozważania domorosłych polityków.
TIT 5 | 211
14 Apr 2010 #191
stick to mówimy po polsku thread please
Jed - | 165
14 Apr 2010 #192
Olga, last 5 years Russia spent in preparation to avoid intrermediate countries which may cut these pipe lines- and just last week started to built a new pipeline in Baltic sea. I remember Polish position about it and Polish President role - but Russia has already solved this problem and put a lot of resourses there instead of Poland and Ukraine.

And please, don't call Mr Yanukovich a pupett - he is just more pragmatic then previous President. They are in really bad situation. And Russia as well as US and EU have no money and big interest to support Ukraine anymore. They play a ping-pong with that pure country trying to avoid big expenses...

And Geogia is not NATO member - and will never be in current situation.

But in very general sense, IF it was a conspiracy plan - we started to discuss real things - ECONOMIC interests. But I still don't see any arguments - only empty feelings and complexes.
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #193
Tusk is next Putin puppet.

Putin is not that Almighty. IMO, there is actually some profound sense behind the fact that ideologically motivated politicians (Churchill,..., Thatcher, ..., Bush, Yuschenko, Kaczynsky etc) do not convince majority of electorate in the times of peace meanwhile pragmatic politicians do.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #194
As far as I know they will build a branch of pipeline going from Nord Stream to Kaliningrad from where it could go directly to Poland too, perhaps.

Yes, with possibility of direct diversion to Świnoujście and Szczecin. But originally it was to go straight from Russia to Germany. So deal was likely made with Tusk (Putin's favorited Polish politician), to divert to Poland, under one condition...

How convenient that Tusk is now to run for President.

Pipeline was likely the reason for the falling out between Tusk and Kaczynski. Remember, Kaczynski was very pro-West:
"Polish premier's ill-fated trip shrouded in acrimony...
The ill-fated journey that wiped out Poland's governing elite on Saturday was prompted by an angry feud between President Lech Kaczynski and his Prime Minister over the country's tense relationship with Russia, it has emerged."

"Nord Stream Ensures Unrestricted Access to Polish Ports"

"Poles wary of Nord Stream pact"
Jed - | 165
14 Apr 2010 #195
How convenient that Tusk is now to run for President.
Pipeline was likely the reason for the falling out between Tusk and Kaczynski. Remember, Kaczynski was very pro-West:

I could be wrong, but from here Mr Tusk looks more pro-EU and Mr Kaczynski looks more like isolationists trying to play on a balance between US and EU?

From pure economic point of view Mr Tusk looks more pragmatic - but definetely not a "Putin puppet"...
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #196
I could be wrong, but from here Mr Tusk looks more pro-EU

No, he is very pro- close ties with Russia. Numerous news articles on that.

From pure economic point of view Mr Tusk looks more pragmatic - but definetely not a "Putin puppet"...

He is now ;-)

There’s already talk in the news that EU currency in 2015 in Poland may be postponed/cancelled

Make no mistake, Putin is veeeerrry happy about that. High zloty right now is good for Russian exports to Poland. Poland is Russia's most significant trading partner.

And Geogia is not NATO member - and will never be in current situation.

My point exactly...Russia got what it wanted and is delighted.. And Russia always gets what Russia want ;-) Georgia's bid for NATO was quashed by Russian tanks, do not forget.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
14 Apr 2010 #197
He is now ;-)

I believe a president of Abkhazia may be an puppet but Mr. Tusk? Do you REALLY think that?
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #198
Absolutely...look how cozy he and Putin have become in the aftermath of this (all warm, fuzzy condolences are a good pretext to fool everyone so as not to arouse suspicion).

From pure economic point of view Mr Tusk looks more pragmatic - but definetely not a "Putin puppet"...

Politics and power corrupts even saints. And with Kaczynksi gone, the ball is in Tusk’s court. Do not forget how many of Tusk’s political opponents, aside from Kaczynski, were also on board. Kaczynski was a big thorn in the side of Russia and other Polish politicians because he was considered to be uncorruptible. Very difficult to get what you want with that type of personality, especially for Russia. Much easier now...;-)
Jed - | 165
14 Apr 2010 #199
Jed: I could be wrong, but from here Mr Tusk looks more pro-EU

Olga: No, he is very pro- close ties with Russia. Numerous news articles on that.

OK. Nothing bad with it.
From normal logic bloody crime could stop or revert it. So, the interst is quite opposite, isn't it?
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #200
From normal logic bloody crime could stop or revert it. So, the interst is quite opposite, isn't it?

Please clarify.
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #201
Poland is Russia's most significant trading partner.

The CIA World Factbook has different data but never mind. ;)

cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html
Jed - | 165
14 Apr 2010 #202
Please clarify.

Assume you are right and bloody Russians are involved - and they are the first suspects - what reaction should be? People like you take this version even without any prove - don't you think that even a shadow of any evidence will destroy a whole construction?

For what reason they would take a risk? Just for their "puppet Tusk"?
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #203
CIA Factbooks has different data but never mind. ;)

It's open and available information, no CIA necessary for this one ;) Check EU statistics...more reliable than CIA propaganda.

[quote=]
Jed: I could be wrong, but from here Mr Tusk looks more pro-EU

Olga: No, he is very pro- close ties with Russia. Numerous news articles on that.

OK. Nothing bad with it.[/quote]
Bad, because making deal with as big a devil as ex-KGB will make you do stupid things. Ex-KGB spies have no place in politics. Expect corruption, manipulation, mafia mentality. Plus KGB training involves propaganda and avoiding detection. Who better to pull this off? And where better? No intrusions that way and you call the shots.
Jed - | 165
14 Apr 2010 #204
making deal with as big a devil as ex-KGB

Thus, your key words are: "ex-KGB devil"

You are not looking for the truth - just playing with words to support your fobia :(
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #205
For what reason they would take a risk? Just for their "puppet Tusk"?

1) Reaction should be demanding fully open, accountable investigation--not Russia dictating it behind "iron curtain."
2) Russia dictating investigation means that no evidence will be found to refute what Russia is claiming.
3) "Puppet" Tusk was likely in on it--crying like a baby on Putin's shoulder is simply good acting job.

Thus, your key words are: "ex-KGB devil"

You are not looking for the truth - just playing with words to support your fobia

So, you think KGB are angels, and are not capable of this, huh? What the hell do you think they train for? If you really think that, you know nothing.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
14 Apr 2010 #206
I can't believe people would accuse the KGB in this time of democracy. This was an unfortunate error in judgment. Maybe some communication between the plane and organizers on the ground could have prevented this tragedy. It's alright to be late to stuff, rock stars are late to their own concerts all the time. Safety is more important than punctuality. Safety is always the top priority. If it took the President a little longer to arrive at the ceremonies so be it. It could have been explained as a delay due to the weather and quickly forgotten.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #207
I can't believe people would accuse the KGB in this time of democracy.

Not KGB per se, old KGB tactics and mentality which is still alive and well in Russia because of Putin.
Over next 5 years I predict, in this order:
1) Tusk will become president.
2) After Medvedev is out, Putin is back in as president.
3) Poland will withdraw from EU.
4) Similar tactics will be employed in Poland to supress dissent and suspicions as have been employed with control of Russian media, possibly including same tactics as those against Russian journalists.

5) Poland will have pipeline straight from Russia as reward.
Jed - | 165
14 Apr 2010 #208
So, you think KGB are angels, and are not capable of this, huh? What the hell do you think they train for? If you really think that, you know nothing.

I don't know who are they now - depends on what you think about life after death.
I know that they are not with us anymore...:)

Their successors are very pragmatic and don't believe in stupid theories like "communism" - they like profit, stability and possibility to spend money outside Russia. Their interests are very simple and predictable.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #209
I can't believe people would accuse the KGB in this time of democracy

Russian government is anything but "democratic." You could ask murdered journalists, but you can't ;) RIP, Politkovskaya and other warriors…

Later, “comrades”…
OP Crow 137 | 7,858
14 Apr 2010 #210
If we already speculate about eventual assassination on Polish president we must take in consideration few options:

1. Target was Polish president and other victims are just collateral damage;
2. Target was somebody from Polish governing stuff and Kaczynski was just collateral damage/victim;
3. Target was complete Polish governing establishment in plane with president included;
4. Few people was target.

Who could be eventual organizers?

Organizers (people who got idea) could be /purely hypothetically/:

- possible attack eventually came from outside of Poland (foreign country/citizens) or from inside of Poland (Polish citizens)

1. some organization;
2. some government/president/PM;
3. some secret service;
4. some rich person;
5. some interest group;
6. some company (for example some plane manufacturer, bank).

Who exactly? Well, use your imagination

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