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Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?


MareGaea 29 | 2,752
13 Apr 2010 #121
Of course, if this is your attitude, you aren't interested in finding the truth out about this crash either, so I will leave you to your own devices.

Move along folks, nothing to see here. Oh yes master, I agree. Sheesh.

All I am saying is that there is no point in speculating about something you don't know yet and probably never will know. Speculation is dangerous and can lead to assumptions which are even further from the truth; all the while making yourself more angry or crazy.

And what would you gain from knowing the entire truth? The only thing you can say in that case is "see, I knew it!". Well, that is a victory which will last how long? A few days? A week? And then life goes on. Is that worth all the fuss? Don't think so.

Of course I know that the US government abused 9/11 to terrorize and scare their own ppl into submission and I wasn't hinting at that; it was more my disliking of those crazy theories of which Silverstein was merely an example. But a mad example that these nutters use to "prove" a Jewish connection...Ad sec.

>^..^<

M-G (to me it was an accident, no more, no less. Gruesome, but no more gruesome than any other planecrash with 100's of deaths)
from Russia
13 Apr 2010 #122
I open you big secret-after two days Putin will kill one of European presidents, after other two days-another President.
Every two days FSB will kill European presidents, after that Putin will kill Asian Presidents (every two days) and soon he will be World President.

Ha-ha.
You are like children, really.
Although really this tragedy is strange...
TIT 5 | 211
13 Apr 2010 #123
never happened in European history that president is a former spy
you can have an actor, an intellectualist or a political cynic but not a spy
czar 1 | 143
13 Apr 2010 #124
also lower altitude plus fog means less witnesses.

web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Security/651.htm
i can see something like this as being a cause.

but just because a bunch of russians say they have nothing to gain do not be convinced
convex 20 | 3,978
13 Apr 2010 #125
also lower altitude plus fog means less witnesses.

Sneaky Russians and their weather generating machines!
crusader 1 | 40
13 Apr 2010 #126
also lower altitude plus fog means less witnesses.

i can see something like this as being a cause.

but just because a bunch of russians say they have nothing to gain do not be convinced

Ok, I'm listening- so what would they gain? I guess nothing, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. Why would they do this?
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
13 Apr 2010 #127
Sneaky Russians and their weather generating machines!

They stole them from the Chinese!
wired.com/wiredscience/2007/11/china-leads-wea
czar 1 | 143
13 Apr 2010 #128
well lets see, so far, they are getting away with it.

ive seen this in america and the middle east, this is russias way of doing business with the EU and the west based on nuclear arms
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 Apr 2010 #129
It is possible, yes, but I doubt it. As for this masonry crap, there could be a little sth in it as I did find the 132 number a bit odd, pulled from sb's as*. However, I favour the official line on this one as how could they have intervened? It was quite clear that explosives were planted in the WTC towers but here, what? We need to be realistic.
Timek - | 3
14 Apr 2010 #130
According to Webster Tarpley, who doesn't think that it's likely that it was anything but an accident btw, that it was the 4th attempt. The plane had dumped it's fuel.

Dumping fuel isn't necessarily a sign of distress. Tarpley may not have the best info on this, if he thinks there were 4 landing attempts rather than two.

When the full flight data is known it might turn out that the pilot dumped fuel to reduce the landing weight of the plane, which would also allow for a slower approach speed and better braking on a wet (due to fog) and not very long runway.

How much fuel he dumped won't be known yet, and it would be interesting to know if he had enough fuel to divert to alternate airport in case of aborted approach.

As for Fog, remember that looking down on fog or up at it from below isn't a great indicator of how thick it looks when flying through it horizontally.

The pilots surely were advised of the weather before descent (reportedly 1'C, with light tailwind and very high humidity... so thick fog was a risk.

The CVR file (or transcript of it) will be very interesting if made public.
The Pilot's attitude to the weather, and prospects of making an approach without good visibility or any ILS systems at the airport will form a major part of the investigation.

Any settings or warnings of the GPWS will be of interest,
and of course if there is any demand / instruction to the crew to land despite the weather.

This whole tragedy could be down to misadventure, the combination of several factors reducing the safety of the flight.
fromrussia - | 4
14 Apr 2010 #131
Khalsa:
"Never trust a Russian.....history has certainly thought us that much."

If we should want to kill your president we would do it not in our territory.
FSB has a long hand.
rychlik 41 | 373
14 Apr 2010 #132
convenient "accident" removing pro-West pain-in-the-ass Kaczynski

But Kaczynski was going to lose the fall election, according to the polls. Why murder a man on his way out?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
14 Apr 2010 #133
The Polish President didn't want to be late so he and his staff pressured the pilot to land so they could spare the embarrassment of being delayed. The fog made it treacherous. No foul play involved. My condolesences to Poland over this tragedy.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
14 Apr 2010 #134
When the full flight data is known it might turn out that the pilot dumped fuel to reduce the landing weight of the plane,

I think its been said before , but this type of aircraft is not capable of dumping fuel...
z_darius 14 | 3,968
14 Apr 2010 #135
If we should want to kill your president we would do it not in our territory.
FSB has a long hand.

That certainly makes sense.
polkamaniac 1 | 482
14 Apr 2010 #136
Actually Joe---I think you're going to find that after checking the audio tapes of the cockpit recorder that Kaczynski---like he's done before---over-ruled the pilot and after 4 tries to land ,he told the pilot to go for it because he was going to be late for the ceremonies.No murder-no terrorism---the plane wasn't even on course and if he landed ,it would have been on grass and not the tarmac.he was way off course from the runway.
f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Apr 2010 #137
the plane wasn't even on course and if he landed ,

I think the pilot was doing a great job. He was heading straight for the runway in dense fog. I think he didn't have enough/correct information on altitude and terrain.
Mr_Chips - | 12
14 Apr 2010 #138
I apologize if this has been posted already, and if so feel free to delete it.
However, if it has not then it is too important to ignore.
Watch the video.

The first person on the scene of the crash.
I believe there are gunshots heard at 57 seconds in.
...
wildrover 98 | 4,451
14 Apr 2010 #139
Oh no...not the sniper on the grassy knol...?

If it was gunshots it may have been Russian military firing warning shots to a news guy straying over the boundry into military ground..

More likely in view of the fire it was oxygen bottles exploding , or possibly aircraft tyres..

When an aircraft burns there are all manner of things that go pop when they get hot enough....
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #140
A larger picture here shows how much off the actual landing direction was. Long red line above on the picture shows a correct direction for landing approach and a short red line below is an actual landing direction - i.e. into debris instead of a runway.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #141
human error is likely to be a main reason of the crash to consider, imo.

Please check links before making so shortsighted a judgment.
richasis 1 | 420
14 Apr 2010 #142
At the moment, Russia is trying to heal old wounds, to build bridges, the Russians know that Poland will be a key player in 'New Europe'

Exactly. I think the post-Soviet Putin Era is an importantly new one for Russia and her neighbors.

Speculation is dangerous and can lead to assumptions which are even further from the truth

I think this is so very true - and nicely stated, too :)

I believe there are gunshots heard at 57 seconds in.

The camera was was quite steady for all that gunfire. Or crackling wood?

Polish President Kaczynski was nationalist, pro-U.S

Ironically, "nationalist, pro-US" is an oxymoron. Once in bed with US, it's 'his' needs first.
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #143
Please check links before making so shortsighted a judgment.

Anything else?
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #144
You're welcome.
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #145
I really feel sorry for an air traffic controller who was obliged to assist such pilots.

He said them that there are no conditions for landing and suggested to divert.They did not and crashed. Now he is questioned by prosecutors and blamed by some Polish MP for politically motivated attempts to spoil a ceremony.
Velund 1 | 399
14 Apr 2010 #146
never happened in European history that president is a former spy
you can have an actor, an intellectualist or a political cynic but not a spy

Hm. What is a good spy? Litle bit an actor, definitely not so stupid, and for sure cynic in a politics. ;)
richasis 1 | 420
14 Apr 2010 #147
Sneaky Russians and their weather generating machines!

It now appears that they thought of everything! :)

Hm. What is a good spy? Litle bit an actor, definitely not so stupid, and for sure cynic in a politics. ;)

Pretty good thought. But then again, there are the likes of George H.W. Bush :)
Velund 1 | 399
14 Apr 2010 #148
But then again, there are the likes of George H.W. Bush :)

Believe me, with proper PR and really good funding it is possible to elect almost any idiot for a president, and there is no problems at all with son of former president that shows just a little signs of disorder. ;)

Democracy, as an idea, has one fundamental problem. For example, if you need to solve some question that related to physics. and MUST do this by voting, why (for example) Albert Einstein should have same single vote as drunk degenerate from nearby bar?

With top politics, there is a lot to lose if wrong person is elected. But there is again, vote of drunk degenerate have same weight as vote of bright intellectual.
Timek - | 3
14 Apr 2010 #149
Yes, I've been told that after my post by a colleague, who is familiar with Tu (I am not very familiar with them at all) . Perhaps that's why he circled so often to burn off the fuel, as well as wait in case fog lifted.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #150
but just because a bunch of russians say they have nothing to gain do not be convinced

That's precisely what I find so ironic--that, having been lied to for 70 years about Katyn, Polacy are still naive enough to so quickly accept this latest Kremlin version of events, no questions asked. Ask yourselves, who had the means, the motive and, of course, the opportunity? Taken with the circumstances, and events that led up to it, I think it's obvious. What--like air controllers can't be bribed or threatened? Look who's in charge...

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