The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 921

Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?


Velund 1 | 476
14 Apr 2010 #151
I think it's obvious.

The most obvious things is not always correct. There is _lots_ of ways how it can be done. You can spend rest of your life speculating about it (I suspect that you already started this lifetime career). And looks like there is no arguments that may change mind of a beleiver.

The majority of people (the ones without fog in their minds) will wait for more information before making final decision.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #152
The majority of people (the ones without fog in their minds) will wait for more information before making final decision.

If ever that "information" comes! And from who... Criminals rarely admit the truth. Unlike most, I wasn't born yesterday.
Velund 1 | 476
14 Apr 2010 #153
I wasn't born yesterday.

Surely. I would bet - not less than 14-15 yrs ago, since so fluent English in addition to native Polish takes some time.. ;) Or it was Polish in addition to native English? ;) If so, I will double lower limit - Polish is not so easy to learn.
richasis 1 | 420
14 Apr 2010 #154
Does WHO gain from the elimination of the Polish elite?

The death of key Polish government and military leaders in a plane crash on Saturday will drastically change the country's political landscape and weaken the position of Poland’s Health Minister, Ewa Kopacz, who refused the swine flu vaccine at the start of the false pandemic last autumn.

Kopacz was the only health minister in Europe to refuse the swine flu vaccine in spite of intense pressure from WHO and pharamceutical companies.

Her refusal was a game changer, sparking a debate about the need for the swine flu vaccine across Europe.

On March 29th, the Council of Europe praised Poland’s Health Minister Ewa Kopacz for her handling of the pandemic at a high-profile hearing.

The council’s Committee on Social, Health and Family Affairs said that Kopacz’s decision not to order any swine flu vaccines in spite of pressure from health bodies and pharmaceutical companies was correct.

Kopacz said that Poland had found the terms proposed by pharmaceutical companies were unacceptable.

She noted that Poland fewer fatal cases of the swine flu virus and the virus was less virulent than in other countries.

UK MP Paul Flynn, who is preparing a Council of Europe report on the false pandemic to be released at the end of April, called the decision “an act of courage”.

Flynn said other countries had wasted millions of euro on unneccessary vaccines.

Also, Marc Gentilini, former head of the French Red Cross, also said that Poland can serve as an example of how to handle the threat of an A/H1N1 pandemic.

But Kopacz was able to resist the pressure to buy the swine flu vaccines because she could be sure of the support of the real power in a govenrment, the security services and the army.

These „powers behind the throne“ shield ministers from reprisals, threats and sackings.

The military and secret service chiefs in Poland also supported a strong and independent central bank governor.

Kopacz’s decision not to buy swine flu vaccines was fiercely criticized and ombudsman Janusz Kochanowski even threatened to file legal action against her, making it all the more vital for her to have a network of support among the key institutions such as the secret services and the army.

It is true that the ombudsman Kochanowski also died in the plane crash along with the military chiefs, security service chief and the central bank governor. However, the power of the ombudsman is small compared to that of army and secret service chiefs and in chess, a pawn is often sacrificed to get the king.

By eliminating the president, the two presidential candidates and the entire military, financial and secret service leadership of Poland at the same time, the pro-WHO, pro-IMF, pro-euro government of Donald Tusk can carry out a coup d’etat.

The now acting president Bronislaw Komorowski has already moved with speed to fill key positions such as the security service chief taking advantage of the state of shock in which Poland finds itself.

It is true that this is in accordance with the constitution but the the constitution was never designed for a sitation where the president, two of the three presidential candidates, the top military and secret service chiefs and the central bank governor were all killed in the same plane crash under suspicous circumstances.

This is surely a criminal law case not a constitutional law case.

There is plenty of evidence pointing to foul play.

Criminal charges should be filed against Komorowski and Tusk.

A complete change of the power elite in Poland opens the way for Tusk to introduce new economic and also public health policies that favour WHO, pharmaceutical companies and the banks.

Destroying Kopacz’s invisible support network sets the stage for the eventual elimination of an effective opponent of the pandemic vaccine and also of martial law.

That WHO is planning a bird flu pandemic can be seen from the fact that Professor Bruno Lina, a WHO-affiliated professor, is carrying out experiments to cross the swine flu with the bird flu.

In addition, WHO has refused to change its pandemic level 6 declaration, which allows it significant power over country’s governments.

Also, governments such as the UK government have cancelled swine flu vaccines only to order bird flu vaccines.

The elimination of Poland’s independent-minded elite in an engineered plane crash also serves as a warning to other politicians and military figures in Europe challenging WHO and the globalists.

Flynn and the COE have launched its own inquiry into the WHO and governmental pandemic responses, and a report is due to be finished at the end of April to be voted on by elected officials from 47 nations, and go to Europe’s parliaments, and WHO must fear the result.

WHO is clearly opposed to the COE inquiry: it refused to send experts to the second hearing in March, where the COE panel heard not only the testimony of Kopacz but also a devastating critque of vaccines by epidemiologist Dr Tom Jefferson.

The COE report, even in a watered down form, could create the basis for dismantling the pandemic management system that the global elite have set up to deliver mass deaths, forced vaccination and martial law.

The purge of the elite in Poland could be the start of purges of vaccine opponents throughout Europe as WHO and the pharmaceutical companies gear up for a second attempt at launching a global pandemic, this time using the bird flu virus.

Under the Lisbon Treaty, the EU police can arrest anyone suspected of terrorism even if the constitution of Europe prohibits this.

The globalists in the EU and USA have been expanding the definition of terrorist to encompass anyone who criticises their policies and crimes in a clear abuse of the law.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #155
Surely. I would bet - not less than 14-15 yrs ago, since so fluent English in addition to native Polish takes some time.. ;) Or it was Polish in addition to native English? ;) If so, I will double lower limit - Polish is not so easy to learn.

Your smarminess is unbecoming.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
14 Apr 2010 #156
The now acting president Bronislaw Komorowski has already moved with speed to fill key positions such as the security service chief taking advantage of the state of shock in which Poland finds itself.

But isn't that normal? The country, although mourning, has to be governed somehow. The best thing to do this is to do it as quickly as pssbl. Or would you rather have a Poland that is continuing without leaders for a prolonged period of time? Wouldn't be good for PL, I reckon.

It's also logical that Kaczynski took his like-minded ppl with him. After all, the "others" (ie political opponents?) had already been there on the 7th. The big mistake was to put them all in one plane, but yet it's understandable in a way: I believe it's rule that only the PM and the President (plus their respective key figures) take seperate planes.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
richasis 1 | 420
14 Apr 2010 #157
But isn't that normal?

Indeed. I'm only adding fuel to the conspiracy fire.
With all this talk of 'Russia', I thought I'd go West. :)
TIT 5 | 211
14 Apr 2010 #158
A larger picture here shows how much off the actual landing direction was Long red line

a larger picture is here and shows contact of Tu 154 with some aerial ( down below the main road )

farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4515204703_07f966c125_o.jpg

the very first video from the scene made by a Polish journalist who in that time was at the airport, notice how quiet was there
RussianW
14 Apr 2010 #159
FACTS:

FACT NO.1. Fog, even snow, ice and very bad weather is current in northern countries.
There are THOUSANDS of planes every day landing on very bad weather conditions.
If weather can be a cause of accident, then we would have all over the world
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PLANE CRASHES EVERY SINGLE DAY.

FACT NO.2. Polish people are a nation of complainers. They like to be considered victims,
to cry and to complain. This is their national culture.
But it is well known that they are too cowards to ask for the real truth or to
investigate it. they like to believe that in Katyn forest, it was a "curse", and not the
russians who killed 25,000 thousands top polish people in 1940.

FACT NO.3. The russians lied until now about almost everything: they claimed that the
polish pilot could not speak russian, and other many lies.

FACT NO.4. All people present in Smolensk that day told that it was good nice weather.
Online weather website show that the temperature was between 7 and 18 degrees Celsius that day. Planes all over the world land without any problems on minus 20 degrees most of the winter in the northern countries, on total fog, and on an icy landing strip without any problems.

FACT NO.5. Polish pilot spoke perfect Russian and English. Captain Arkadiusz Protasyuk landed on the same airport three days earlier

English | Top News

The pilot flying the Polish presidential aircraft which crashed in Smolensk spoke had excellent Russian language skills and had landed on this airport before, Polish press reads on Tuesday. Yesterday, a Russian traffic inspector, namely Pavel Plusnin, the last to speak with the cabin crew, complained that the pilots spoke rotten Russian.

Polish officials claim that the plane's captain Arkadiusz Protasyuk spoke perfect Russian and English, RBK informs.

Polish army colonel Bartosz Strolinski said he had flown alongside Protasyuk to Smolensk three days before the tragedy, when they flew PM Donald Tusk to Russia.

Strolinski, who did not fly this time, stressed that has partner has landed the plane safely, without any problem whatsoever, on Severnyi aerodrome.

"Arek spoke an excellent Russian; he found it easy to converse in Russian and English. On April 7, when we flew there together, there was not a moment of misunderstanding, no kind of observations", he said.

Another friend of the presidential aircraft's captain Grzegorz Kulakovski declared that Protasyuk had no problem before the flight. "He knew very well the airport and he was very prepared for the mission", he added.

Velund 1 | 476
14 Apr 2010 #160
If I see so silly conclusions in the first reasoning, I usually do not take seriously the rest.
Jed - | 165
14 Apr 2010 #161
No 3- don't mix journalists and even specialists misinterpretation with lies and facts - black boxes will tell us the story;

No 4 - it is not true. Local people on local Smolensk forum discussed that fog.

Other points are discussible. Important thing in conspiracy theory is to find motives - who benefit and how?
richasis 1 | 420
14 Apr 2010 #162
Who would want to eliminate the Polish government? An article in Jewish Currents entitled "The Return of the Radical Right in Poland" reports:

"Something has gone very, very wrong in Poland. After elections last September, a group called 'Law and Justice,' led by a longtime Solidarity activist and right-wing politician named Jaroslaw Kaczynski, emerged as the largest party in parliament. Victory in the following month's presidential election went to Kaczynski's identical twin Lech... The Kaczynskis formed a coalition with an agrarian populist group called "Self-Defense" and a radical-right party with the innocuous name of 'The League of Polish Families.' Polite Western journalists have labeled this government 'center-right' or 'conservative,' but it is hard to find anything centrist about those holding power in Warsaw today. Even Europe's mainstream conservative parties have publicly disavowed any affiliation with Law and Justice (not to mention the other two coalition members). Put simply, the extreme right now rules Poland, and people widely considered marginal and dangerous even a year ago are now within the corridors of power."

jewishcurrents.org/2006-sept-porter.htm
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #163
a larger picture is here and shows contact of Tu 154 with some aerial ( down below the main road )

If you suggest that plane's contact with aerial which pilot might not see in the fog had possibly changed direction of the landing approach then I agree with you.

There are THOUSANDS of planes every day landing on very bad weather conditions.

Although 'very bad weather' is a poorly defined term and can mean whatsoever to different people.

In fact, pilots are not advised to land in the conditions below minimal ones which vary for different planes and airports.

As far as I know, minimal visibility allowed for landing of Tu154 in Severnu airbase, Smolensk is about 1000 meters meanwhile actual visibility was about 400 meters which is much below minimum.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
14 Apr 2010 #164
The Kaczynskis formed a coalition with an agrarian populist group called “Self-Defense”

That situation ended pretty quickly, so that didn't count as reason anymore. But of course, it was the Jews. It's always the Jews when something goes wrong with PL. After all, they want to dominate the world and the entire balance of power will be completely turned upside-down when Poland, the most important, strongest and most influencial power in the world will become headless. Where better to start ruling the world than there?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
Timek - | 3
14 Apr 2010 #165
FACTS:

Mostly opinions and conjecture.

FACT NO.1. Fog, even snow, ice and very bad weather is current in northern countries.
There are THOUSANDS of planes every day landing on very bad weather conditions.

It's a question of not only the weather, but also the equipment available to navigate in those conditions. Smolensk military base did not have ILS navaids, so with visibility lower than minimum, most planes (and the IL76 before them) would divert rather than risk crashing.

The radar approach is not something most people would like to do.

If weather can be a cause of accident, then we would have all over the world
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PLANE CRASHES EVERY SINGLE DAY.

There are plenty of plane crashes every day. They don't all make international news. Here in Ireland we had a fatal plane crash the day after Kasczynski's plane.

Also the Mirosławiec crash 2008 , I don't think made the news in Ireland.

FACT NO.2. Polish people are a nation of complainers. They like to be considered victims,
to cry and to complain. This is their national culture.

That's your opinion. It's a label a lot of nations get.

FACT NO.3. The russians lied until now about almost everything: they claimed that the
polish pilot could not speak russian, and other many lies.

The media are not Russian authorities nor are they a court, they rush to get headlines and accuracy is not first priority if there is no great risk of being sued.

FACT NO.4. All people present in Smolensk that day told that it was good nice weather.
Online weather website show that the temperature was between 7 and 18 degrees Celsius that day. Planes all over the world land without any problems on minus 20 degrees most of the winter in the northern countries, on total fog, and on an icy landing strip without any problems.

ATC Weather report I was referred to, said 1'C with 98% humidity. IL 76 diverted due to poor visibility, people on the ground and cameras show fog later on, and while possible to land in fog, it's usually cos the airport has good ILS equipment.

FACT NO.5. Polish pilot spoke perfect Russian and English. Captain Arkadiusz Protasyuk landed on the same airport three days earlier

Perhaps with much better weather.
richasis 1 | 420
14 Apr 2010 #166
But of course, it was the Jews. It's always the Jews when something goes wrong with PL.

While I never overtly stated this, I actually didn't mean to imply this either.
As I responded before, I am merely adding fuel to the fire by 'looking West'.
I simply thought this to be of some interest given its non-mainstream slant:

Jewish Currents is a progressive, secular Jewish bimonthly magazine that carries on the insurgent tradition of the Jewish left through independent journalism, political commentary, and a “countercultural” approach to Jewish arts and literature. Founded in 1946 as Jewish Life, the magazine was reorganized and re-launched in 1958 as Jewish Currents, with Morris U. Schappes (1907-2004) as its editor, a post he held for four decades.

The magazine is unique among Jewish publications in its historical awareness, its commitment to diversity and democracy in Jewish life, its doikayt (here-ness), its love of Yiddish language and culture, and the independence and unpretentiousness of its political voice.

Although a bit dated, I did find this to be an honest and enlightening read.
Again, for all this talk of 'Russia', this perhaps lends itself to looking 'West'.

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, let the conspiracy theories thrive! :)
f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Apr 2010 #167
Long red line above on the picture shows a correct direction for landing approach and a short red line below is an actual landing direction - i.e. into debris instead of a runway.

The short red line shows how he veered of the course after initial clipping, little ways before the highway.
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #168
It looks like pilot tried to land the plane at minimal height (from which he wanted to see a runway better, perhaps?) just above the trees but hit something tall (an aerial?) on its way and after impact veered into woods where collapsed.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #169
Important thing in conspiracy theory is to find motives - who benefit and how?

Who benefits? Putin & Tusk
How? 1) Tusk's archrival is eliminated. It's common knowledge he despised Kaczynski. Now Tusk is considering running for presidency, with Putin's support. 2) Tusk, if elected, will withdraw Poland from plans for missile defense shield=Putin very happy.

"The plane crash that killed Poland's president and leading opposition politicians has removed at one stroke key opponents of Prime Minister Donald Tusk and his ruling centrist Civic Platform"

"Polish premier's ill-fated trip shrouded in acrimony...

The ill-fated journey that wiped out Poland's governing elite on Saturday was prompted by an angry feud between President Lech Kaczynski and his Prime Minister over the country's tense relationship with Russia, it has emerged."

"Vladimir Putin's brotherly embrace of a tearful Polish prime minister was one of the most powerful images beamed from the site of Saturday's plane crash that killed Poland's president and many of the country's elite."

"Poland PM Tusk Considers Running for President"

"The death of Poland's president carries a terrible echo of his country's past...When government ministers tried to haggle with America about a planned missile-defence base, he undercut them. Poland would be happy to have the installation on any terms. To Mr Kaczyński, his brother, and many of their supporters, Russia was still a menace, run by the former KGB... his arch-rival Donald Tusk..."

"Donald Tusk - a friend of Russia? Donald Tusk also hinted that the ABM issue has not been finalized and, hence, Moscow has a chance to persuade Warsaw not to host the American missile interceptors...Tusk mentioned one more problem in bilateral relations. Warsaw may "adjust its position" on oil and gas supplies. He meant primarily Yaroslaw Kaczynski's decision to build a terminal on the Baltic coast - in the event that Moscow stops gas supplies via the Yamal-Europe pipeline.

"Redzikowo Missile Defense Shield"
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #170
Olga,

Is there any chance for you that an advice of an air traffic controller was perhaps a lonely voice of an angel uttered in that fog in order to rescue the people onboard from what had followed? He just was not listened well, perhaps. :)
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #171
Is there any chance for you that an advice of an air traffic controller was perhaps a lonely voice of an angel trying to rescue president from what had followed? He just was not listened well, perhaps.

Anything is "possible" in dreamland...what is most likely? Pilots of this caliber don't end up flying heads of state if they have a history of "not listening well." That is called "kamikaze." Pilot in this case was fluent in Russian and English and had just landed a plane there 3 days earlier.
f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Apr 2010 #172
had just landed a plane there 3 days earlier

... and maybe he thought he could do it again with 'eyes closed'.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #173
Remember, investigators are going ONLY on what air traffic controllers are telling them... and you think they would admit it, if that were the case? Flight data has only been examined so far by Russia, Polish investigation is myth.

"Russian officials have recovered the two cockpit voice recorders and are decoding them."

"Poland's post-crash sense of unity starts to fray ..Aviation experts say the probe of the crash is moving relatively quickly but some Poles are complaining about a lack of public information, including the transcript of conversation in the cockpit before the accident..."This investigation is moving rather quickly and I've seen more information released than I would normally expect," said Bill Voss, president of the U.S.-based Flight Safety Foundation."

... and he thought he could do it again with eyes practically closed.

Bulls**t
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #174
Titanic was not too bad either, Olga.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #175
Your speculations are nonsense. Why is the only information coming from the Russian side--because they have control of the investigation.
f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Apr 2010 #176
some will not be happy until the finger is pointed squarely at some russians.

Ultimately, whether to land or not is pilot's decision, not towers. In retrospect, he made a wrong one. But, if he was couple of meters higher, probably only his flyboy buddies would ever hear about this one.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #177
some will not be happy until the finger is pointed squarely at some russians.

Don't forget, Russia is pro at blaming others...perfect example, 70 years of Katyn on Germans.

"Throughout history, Russian leaders have sought to suppress dissent by driving critics into exile - or worse"

kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/63490/

And nobody is blaming "Russians." Only stating obvious reasons why to be justifiably suspicious of Putin. You forget he is ex-KGB lieutenant colonel? Why don't you read some news other than state-approved propaganda?
f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Apr 2010 #178
just because they are known to blame others does not mean we should too.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #179
Why don't you read some news other than state-approved propaganda?

Execution of journalists critical of Putin may be one reason you don't.

just because the are known to blame others does not mean we should too.

Just because you are being fed something, don't swallow it so willingly.
Karamba - | 27
14 Apr 2010 #180
Why is the only information coming from the Russian side--because they have control of the investigation.

I had actually read a comment from a Polish prosecutor quoted in British media a day or two ago.

Home / News / Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?
Discussion is closed.