EU confirms it will take action against Poland over court reforms

There is no issues with rule of law in Poland. The courts need reform to make them smoother and I have first hand experience of this as ive dealt with a property issue for a long time. This isn't Nazi occupied or USSR occupied Poland - no government is going to take my land. And if that were to happen id go down fighting...

If you want to talk about issues with rule of law look at France where there's now almost 3 years of state of emergency, migrants torch police stations, cars, rape women, cause terror. Now THAT's a problem of rule of law...

Did you read the link in #160 about Ziobro using his power as Minister of Justice to pursue a personal vendetta against someone who had already been found not guilty?

If not, read it and then comment about that rather than migrants (an important issue but really off topic in this thread).

So? Big deal... There's issues with every court in the world. I'm more concerned about EU forcing laws upon Poles that they didn't vote for and don't want than some guy using the tools already at his disposal bc of his career to get revenge against someone... You have no clue how bad other courts are. I'd argue the courts in US are FAR more corrupt than Poland's but they don't appear so because of all the layers of bureaucracy which really only makes it appears more sophisticated. Polish courts have commies in them - that's reason enough to purge them.

I'd rather have that then cars torched, women raped nonstop, hordes of migrants with sharia 4 Poland signs, a sea of ninja women and teenage mutant ninja muslims, and years of state of emergency because the migrants burn whatever they want. SWAT teams had to escort firefighters in france due to trumps' Jerusalem move. THAT'S A RULE OF LAW PROBLEM.

Okay, now you're coming across as being just as mentally disturbed as pedofile sex guy. You have an obsession that is unhealthy. Stop writing about migrants on this thread, it's unrelated to the return of PRL style rule of whoever's in office.

Why? You're talking about rule of law. That is a rule of law problem. Haven't you seen what the migrants did in France over the weekend? And yet people have the gall to say Poland has problems HAHAHAHAHA western Europe needs to take a good look at itself first... pffft rule of law... at least our police stations and other institutions aren't getting torched by invades..


And what do you know about the PRL? Have you or your family lived during PRL times? PRL Commie Poland modern day Poland are NOTHING alike


Yes, I am terrified of my country turning into Germany, France or Sweden. Poland is my motherland. I would die for Poland - would you? That is why this is so important to me. I don't want my country defiled. My whole family, my whole identity is with Poland. Its bad enough that all these cities I've visited for over a decade have been terribly changed and not for the better - Paris, Berlin, Dortmund, London, etc. It's so sad what is happening in Western Europe and there's less and less Europeans and more and more people who HATE liberal European values. The west may be lost and we Poles sure as hell don't want all this to happen to us.

Did you live in the PRL? I know lots of people who did and who recognize the same old patterns coming back.

FYI for anyone who hasn't seen it - this is how our government views the migrant crisis. This video was released by the ministry of foreign affairs. I think it deserves a grammy, emmy, and every other possible award.

youtube.com/watch?v=hamMfDOKbK4


Yes, I still have my old PRL passport

So you did not live in PRL, do not have family who lived in PRL, and your 'evidence' is based on hearsay.... wonderful lolololol and yet you're challenging a PRL passport holder, someone who's family lived in PRL and some of whom I'm sure maybe even had PZPR or whatever group membership to further their careers, an uncle who served as a major in the warsaw pact, someone who grew up on cztery pancerni I pies, etc. But the few people you've heard say that modern Poland resembles PiS is 100% accurate - this isn't even your opinion it appears rather one you're repeating from someone else... prolly a zaKODowany frajer

First comment:

Polacy przeciw imigrantom! Nie chcemy islamskiego szamba w Polsce.
Poles against migrants! We don't want a Muslim cesspool in Poland.

Couldn't of said it better...


Similar patterns, different leadership, different situations. Dealing with problems like the EU and fixing the courts along with having Russia/Belarus on one side and invaded Germany with Merkel on the other, this all requires a strong steady hand. Change is never easy but we need it in Poland if we are to fight for our survival. The courts, the abortion vote, etc. I was against. There's many things I don't like about PiS. Nonetheless, I cannot trust PO after their kowtow to the EU and Merkel. You want to talk about corrupt? Talk about PO and the secret tapes and all the other stuff that was exposed like property deals, graft, corruption, etc and is still being exposed.

Unless people get it wrong first time and are made to correct their mistake by taking the exam again ehem... referendum.


Look, you clary have no clue as to what going on in Poland. Either because you're stuck, not interested sufficiently in politicks or unable to learn anything new or maybe because you don't speak Polish beside the most basic stuff you don't your a.. from your enable when it coma to politics in Poland. Whichever it is you clary have no clue so stop lecturing people who disagree with your opinion.

here something for you to learn:
youtu.be/gJs_Ce3kwjI
youtu.be/y375KI8jD1Q
youtu.be/xlKYn44HUCs
youtu.be/wbbNY_vzjGY

If you're referring to Lisbon, changes were made to the proposal to reflect the concerns that caused people to vote no. That's why we have opt-outs that Poland doesn't.

*clearly, *elbow,


Allegedly. You know it could be as well just a rumor (ak fake news) to distract form the main issue to slander by the German and post-commie owned media that have a vested interest into keeping status quo in Poland, hence they oppose the changes at all costs.

There are a lots for people who are suing it as an argument in a political debate. In fact it is just their opinion,. Some of them have no clue or at just simply traumatized by their PRL experiences and should seek a professional help rather than project their obsession onto the public.

Wrong on that count Dirk. Ask Ziemowit for his index cards. Unlike you I have been paying income tax for 27 years. Plenty of it too, sorry to say.

Then we need to have an opt out, have a referendum or simply leave.


Fact. KOD tends to attract mainly pensioners and a few young EUphiles, academic types, and those who fear their liberal stance will cause them to get fired from whatever school, TV station, radio, NGO, etc they work at. PiS and the conversative right wing parties attract much of the youth - especially young males which are overwhelmingly conservative and traditional along with an increasing amount of young women too, business owners, professionals, soldiers, patriots, Poles who have high regard for the Catholic church, traditionalists, etc.

Conservatism populism, anti-migrant policies, protectionism is what will win out in Poland and Hungary - especially now with the V4's support and the migrant crisis - which again I keep noting because that is the ultimate root cause and the elephant in the room and everyone knows it - Poland knows it, EU knows it, Merkel knows it, and all EU citizens know it. If PO or any politician would publicly say that they support the EU's migrant quotas for Poland - they would never be popular. That is one of the main reasons why PO lost the election and back in 2015 Poles were far more open to taking in refugees than they are now. They've seen all the terror, rapes, and other problems caused by migrants between 2015 and today and they don't want it.

Even in Czechy a candidate who's firmly against migrants won. Austria also now has a conservative right wing government. Western Europe is going one way, Eastern Europe another. They want multiculturalism, far left policies and the EU dictating their internal affairs, we want a conservative traditional society where our people remain the majority and decide our policies.


Again, as I said you are a FOREIGN RESIDENT WORKING IN POLAND - of course you pay taxes.. I do too... Nonetheless, a POLISH CITIZEN, regardless of whether he pays taxes or not, owns property or not, is a street bum, and never worked a day in his life still BY LAW has a greater stake than you in the country as you are a FOREIGN RESIDENT, not a citizen. This is a decision for POLISH CITIZENS - get your citizenship than you'll have the same stake as every other Polish citizen. For now, thank you for your tax contributions - they will help make more anti-migrant propaganda videos.

youtu.be/_hRkWOHYdjc

A lot of analysts are saying a Polexit would have more long term implications for EU than even Brexit because it's more an ideological divide. We were the first to throw off the clutches of USSR and Communism - perhaps Poland will also lead the way amongst its V4 partners and Eastern Europe and leave. One thing is for certain - EU is far too arrogant to respect Poland's sovereignty. They believe that the EU should have the final say in a member country's policies. This was made to be a political and economic union. No where did it say though that EU can decide for other countries who they can take in, how to make their court system (Poland's proposed court system is very similar to many western European countries), etc. We follow 99% of EU dictates like 400 rules on making a toothbrush, which seem ridiculous to us. Nonetheless, we comply because there's pro's and con's. Poland received funds and its people the opportunity to work abroad. However, there are cetain things that are a red line.

The reason why so many people here are pushing EU's dictates and criticizing Poland's decision and attitude is because they don't understand the history or culture. Poland was off the map for over a century, was invaded from 2 flanks in WW2, and was under the heel of Communism for half the 20th century. We are sick and tired of having others control us and tell Poles what to do. With the EU, we saw a LOT of positive benefits from 2004 to 2015. However, with the migrant crisis and Merkel's arrogance, she has pushed the EU to a political union that imposes its far left agenda onto countries who do not want it. They do not respect country's sovereignty or the citizens' decisions. Its their way or the highway. I'm sure Poland would put a stop to the logging, the court changes, etc. if EU dropped its migrant quota system for Poland. But they don't want to negotiate. They don't understand nor respect Poland's history and Polish peoples' worldview. We were occupied by tanks in the past, now we're facing an occupation through bureaucracy and politics. Nonetheless, most Poles DON'T want to leave the EU YET. However, the EU is pushing us into a corner. EU cannot allow Poland to be a rogue state and do its own thing because it undermines the EU's authority. However, more and more countries now are realizing the EU doesn't have any teeth - it's all bark and no bite. Politics are changing and people are moving more towards the right - Trump, Brexit, V4, along with Poland's Austria's Hungary's etc elections all having a right wing party in a majority in just about everything! Even AfD had a tremendous success in Germany. Quite frankly, EU can either compromise with the new conservative right wing element and back off on the migrant quotas, or it can continue pushing for a far left agenda which clearly the majority of citizens in these countries do not want.

This will cause a huge rift and eventually Poland will realize we have a strong economy, we already received all the EU funds were going to get and are about to become a net payee, we don't want the Euro anyway, we have stronger partnerships with V4 and are making new ones with China and other countries, Merkel keeps pushing a specific agenda Poles don't want, and all this will combine into Poland realizing maybe we're better off without the EU if they refuse to compromise and we're no longer getting billions from them. Our economy is now doing wonderfully and everyday I read a new story of some major corp opening facilities in Poland. It's time we seek new partners as Western Europe is in decline, Eastern Europe and other countries like China are doing better and better. In fact, Poland's growth has outpaced Germany's, France's, etc. for years. I don't want Poland to leave the EU, IF the western countries and Merkel are able to strike a compromise and respect Poland's sovereignty and desire to NOT take in any migrants. I'm sure we'd comply with logging demands and court changes as there's give and take in any negotiation. However, they're too proud. They can't admit their fault even though Merkel publicly stated she wish she handled the migrant crisis differently. But it's too late now, Merkel simply wants to share the burden - afterall why shouldn't other countries not have to also have terror attacks, rapes, years of state of emergency, etc.

And why do they do that? Because Poland is an EU member and has access to the common market. The domestic market in Poland isn't strong enough to support foreign investments at the current scale.

Because of the cheap labor, highly educated work force, infrastructure, favorable business environment, etc. EU membership is an asset to foreign companies investing in PL, but just one of numerous pro's. FDI has flowed into Poland even before it's EU membership - same with Croatia, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovenia, Bulgaria, etc.They could choose any number of other EU countries. Like I said, Poland should hold a referendum to determine whether it should comply with the migrant quota like Hungary has done and where I believe 95% of Hungarians rejected the quotas. In Poland, the result would be similar - a vast majority as CBOS pointed out as well in the past. I predict that unless EU respects our sovereignty, right wing politicians will start campaigning more and more for a Polexit.


Most of the companies are opening factories, offices, etc. to service customers beyond Poland, not so much Poles.

Nonetheless, Poles' incomes have dramatically risen and they are able to afford much more goods than they had 10-20-30 years ago.

I'm sorry - 98% of Hungarians voted AGAINST the migrant quotas (source: BBC)

Yet the arrogant EU doesn't respect the citizens vote and insists on pushing in migrants into the country even though nearly everyone is against it. This is the modern EU - this is NOT how the EU was when Poland joined in 2004. It wasn't even like this 5 - 10 years ago. Now it's pushing a destructive far left agenda including forced migrant relocation which Poles, Hungarians, Czechs, clearly do not want. But that doesn't matter to EU. Sovereignty, respect for a nation's culture, and the DEMOCRATIC will of the people mean NOTHING to Merkel and her commie ilk.

and as far as czechy (source: BBC)

'A new poll released on Wednesday suggested that 94% of Czechs believed the EU should return refugees to where they came from, 32% without helping them at all.

More than three quarters want to abandon the EU's Schengen Agreement, which enables passport-free travel, and send Czech border guards back to their posts.

Just to point out: the referendum actually failed. The referendum required a quorum of 50%, therefore only a minority of Hungarians voted against them.

hungarianspectrum.org/2016/10/02/viktor-orbans-gamble-failed-the-referendum-is-invalid

Same as our dear Sarmatian brat Spartak, known also as Spartacus resisted to malevolent Romans, I suppose, brat Duda resist to EU. Degeneracy is degeneracy and must be resisted.

Look at how businesses fled Catalonia after the UDI, and you can see just how important access to the EU is.


Good good. That means you also supporting purging commies from public life, right?

Or even better example. You could ask Serbs what was their reward for resistance. From becoming victim of EU propaganda to becoming military target. All until we learned that we must become member, must be annexed. Now, its another thing that world dramatically change and became Multi-Polar in the meanwhile and that widening our maneuverable space.

you are still not a citizen and are not allowed to vote in the national elections contrary to Dirk, you can shout all you want - especially in your poor Polish

Yes but to vote you surely need to be on the electoral register for which purpose you have to live in the country. I don't believe that Poles living in America can vote in Polish elections. Maybe somebody could clear that one up?

They can -and US citizens living here in Poland can vote in the state where they are registered .

Yes they can, I don't know the specifics but they can and do vote in Polish national elections

polskatimes.pl/artykul/9040372,wybory-2015-miazdzace-zwyciestwo-pis-w-usa-i-kanadzie-jak-glosowala-polonia,id,t.html

Now that's interesting. I would say that should have some conditions attached. I mean is it right that somebody who has perhaps lived for twenty or thirty years in another country and who is resident and domiciled abroad should have a say in the government of a country where they don't live? But that's for another thread.

It should. No representation without taxation, in my opinion. It's an absolute disgrace that some Tommy who has never paid a thing in tax to Poland should be able to interfere in our affairs.

It depends. One problem with Greece is that Greeks living outside the country cannot vote (despite the constitution saying they can - the parliament keeps preventing it). So elections are all about patronage and politicians don't have to take non-resident Greeks (who have wider experience) into account. that's at least one country where non-resident citizens could help things.

In Poland it's more a mixed bag as you get people with marginal knowledge of conditions on the ground doing dumb things like voting overwhelmingly for the neo-PRL party.

Totally agree. Irish abroad cannot vote unless they are on the electoral register in Ireland and physically come to Ireland to cast their vote. Brits abroad lose their right to vote once they've lived abroad for 15 years.

My index cards tell me that your true name was once identified on this forum, that you are usually late for an SKM train in the Tricity when walking your dog and that you love everything German in Poland and you would very much like Poland to be joined to the Reich - if not the entire Poland then at least the area of the former Westpreussen where the Tricity is located.