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EU confirms it will take action against Poland over court reforms


Ironside 47 | 9,261    
21 Oct 2018  #511
Are nothing to do with IQ.

Really? I think that is a good indication of inability to comprehend complex issues. Mention about your language skills was just a cheery on the top.

AT, dude you are a one sour costumer that talks a lot of offensive stuff breaded in some absolute nonsense. IF you looking for a comic relive you are in the wrong place.

The cheek of it!
TheWizard - | 322    
21 Oct 2018  #512
Its always been this way they punched above their weight in the 20s and look what happened. Before that gone for eons. Pis is repeating those same dumb mistakes its like a curse. Now we claw our way back to civilazation from kraut and soviet bs and look at this gerbils causing havoc again. Its not that i agree with the issues, its just pis is too dumb to manage such things. I think its time to say **** poland and log off forever. Goodbye all.
Dougpol1 26 | 2,160    
21 Oct 2018  #513
dude you are a one sour costumer that talks a lot of offensive stuff breaded in some absolute nonsense.

Listen "dude" - I work in academia during the week so am not going to offer evidence and justification in my time off , not even to debate with such brains as yourself. I come here for an easy discussion, to vent my spleen, to help some with information about the situation here ( something that you know nothing about) and for something to think about away from work

You on the other hand have never looked at yourself, not even when you were busy slagging every female on this board.
Ironside 47 | 9,261    
21 Oct 2018  #514
Its always been this way they punched above their weight in the 20s and look what happened.

What happened? Do you have some magic formula that in you mind would have changed situation that Poland was in before the war? There was no good path for Poland to follow at the time. It is true that Poland's gov at the time was not the best and made some unwise choices. Has there been other way that would result in a better ending for Poland? I doubt it. Look at Hungary, they chose a pragmatic way - somehow it didn't work for them that well. They ended up in the some barrel with Poland.

By the way it has nothing to do with punching. It has to do with Poland sovereignty. . IF you cannot see that, its very much devalue all your opinions on the subject.

ts amongst all people.

Nah, not all people. Maybe all people down under but who cares about their opinions. Sure, you don't even speak the language of the country. Why would you even be interested in its affairs? Nice that you have some sentiment but you're obviously engrossed in some other stuff, good for you and Godspeed Mr Australian.

not even when you were busy slagging every female on this board.

What are you even talking about? I thread everyone the same on this forum. I take into account a content of their posts. Some females obviously cannot handle debate without female privileges they enjoy in the real world. Other than that I think you have mistaken me for somebody else.

I work in academia

Who cares? I think most poster here works. Oh do you want to impress me with academia? lol! I have met my share of really not that bright academics and some were really dumb costumers. Worse still that believe themselves to be crème al la crème of the intellectual crop just by the virtue of holding some teaching position. Whilst not dealing with students they are out of their element.

come here for an easy discussion,

let be honest you came here to vent and to enlighten others with you wisdom. The problem is nether your rant nor your wised has any currency here. I don't take this forums debate death serious either. So MY easy discussion and YOU easy discussion obviously are not on the same plane ....
Dougpol1 26 | 2,160    
21 Oct 2018  #515
I think you have mistaken me for somebody else

Hardly. But I'm not a fan of the Ziemowit brand of index cards .....

academics

I am not an academic - it didn't prevent them from employing me though - for know-how. It's called spotting talent. Now, I wonder what talent you have......?
Ironside 47 | 9,261    
21 Oct 2018  #516
I am not an academic

Well to answer your query:

youtu.be/XXFUlFpszvc
OP Atch 16 | 2,647    
27 Nov 2018  #517
The European Court of Justice has ordered Poland to suspend and reverse the law regarding the lowering of Supreme Court judges retirement age

And they've done it. Thus endeth the drama. Last week they pushed through a bill that allows the dismissed judges to return to work.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
27 Nov 2018  #518
And they've done it.

That will come really into play when the new EU budget is negotiated....I would bet that other countries won't want to be as solidary as they have been before.

The govs might **** on the legalities but never on the money!
Tacitus 1 | 766    
27 Nov 2018  #519
Good to see that the EU can protect the Pomish people.
Lyzko 18 | 5,325    
27 Nov 2018  #520
Which ones though? Those from the former 'Vorpommern' or those from the current 'Meck-Pomm'?
Tacitus 1 | 766    
27 Nov 2018  #521
I meant to say "Polish people". Funny how one spelling mistake can give a message an entirely different meaning ;)
Lyzko 18 | 5,325    
28 Nov 2018  #522
I know a German acquaintance who actually mistook once "Pommis" for "people from Pommerania:-)
Sounds like "Denglisch".
Chemikiem 5 | 1,202    
29 Nov 2018  #523
Last week they pushed through a bill that allows the dismissed judges to return to work.

Yes, I've read a bit about it, but I'm not convinced that will be the end of it as far as PiS are concerned.

As I understand it, a lot of the damage has already been done with regard to judicial reform. PiS has already appointed the majority of judges to the Constitutional Tribunal, and apart from having the power to veto legislation, it also controls the National Council of the Judiciary, a body that is supposed to safeguard independence of judges and courts. Under Duda's new regulations, no longer will judiciary members be selected by other judges, but by the lower house of parliament.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,183    
29 Nov 2018  #524
Sounds good, good riddance to the old boys club.

Next is to root out all civil servants / politicians who were active against the people of Poland, members of the old PRL, Documents should be released as to their involvement (and levels of guilt for against the people ) during the time of commie occupation, if found guilty all property and assets should be seized , sentences should only just fall short of deportation to Siberia, 20 years hard labour should be sufficient.

Time to clean the swamp, time for justice.
Lyzko 18 | 5,325    
29 Nov 2018  #525
This sort of purge in a way reminds me of the attempts by the new leaders in Germany during the early '70's to rid the parliament of former Nazis, many installed by Adenauer, the "friend of the West", one should recall:-)
fukpolakw    
29 Nov 2018  #526
Ok, here is the thing to you polaks and polak annabes here who talk crap about others or other narions. Polaks may not necessairly be gangsters toure right deep down theyre soft. But, and I mean but, theyre rude. they know how to be rude. they wont get out of your way if you sit next to them on a bus or tram in fact theyll try to punk you for your seats by saying theyre olt or have reumaticism or old legs or try to get softie on you. polaks, particularly polak middle aged women even take over entire seating areas meaning both sides - by lying they have people coming. theyre masters of manipulations and constantly sya pan or pani like maa'm or sir while theyre bullshetting you and fuking you over.
Lyzko 18 | 5,325    
29 Nov 2018  #527
I fail to grasp your point.
cms neuf - | 592    
29 Nov 2018  #528
Rather than worry about stuff that happened 30 years ago (when you were still in Britain probably), can't we try and build an independent institution that works for todays problems ? How many ex PRL people do you really think are working still in the civil service, police, army etc ? someone who was 25 in 1989 is now at the end of their career.

What is your definition of guilt - if it just means having a job in the 80s to try and feed your family that does not seem a great basis for seizing someone's assets.
Lyzko 18 | 5,325    
29 Nov 2018  #529
The more salient question/issue should be, is there ever a statute of limitations on guilt? Furthermore, as Santayana said, "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Case in point!
Ironside 47 | 9,261    
30 Nov 2018  #530
Rather than worry about stuff that happened 30 years ago

Nobody 'worry' about issues that happened 30 years ago. You misrepresent the point here.

can't we try and build an independent institution that works for todays

That exactly is the problem. For 30 years those people entrenched there since soviet times were unable to build anything and their created problems rather than solve them.

To build a new institution, you need new people as well. Even a one rotten apple is a problem and we talking here a whole bunch.

Is not been about those who stared there 30 years ago but also about those who started to work there much later. They're as much a problem as the next commie mole.

Purge is a must.

The only problem I see is that PiS doesn't do it right.
Lyzko 18 | 5,325    
30 Nov 2018  #531
Rather than purge, how about re-education? It's a lot less expensive, the state can afford it after all, and it will also re-integrate those purged

back into society where they can function as useful citizens.
It worked after WWII in Germany with former Nazis.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
30 Nov 2018  #532
I doubt that a little bit...

The party Nazis were removed from power, but that was it.

The many opportunists and "Mitläufer" (nominal follower) were never a problem, not in the Third Reich, nor in the communist GDR (and neither in Poland I think). It's the hard core ideologues which won't change their opinion just because they lost the battle...

In my opinion the only way is to let the "Mitläufer" alone, cut out the fanatics and make sure they will never get a position of power ever again and time will do the rest.

That's what more or less happened in after war West-Germany.
In East Germany it was even more dreary, the same "Mitläufer" which only a few years back screamed Nazi paroles now were all nice SED party members!

The idea that re-education achieves anything more than learning by rote the demanded answers when asked is naive. Humans just don't work that way.

The main difficulty is to separate the "wheat from the chaff"....a general purging is easier.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
30 Nov 2018  #533
PS: A general purging is easier but not the best way. That what happened in Iraq after the topple of Hussein. All members of the Baath party had been purged, no matter if guilty or not, if follower or leader, with desastreous and long lasting violent consequences for the country and the whole region. After all nearly everybody from a certain education onwards war supposed to be a party member..

If the allies had done the same with Germany, there would had been no re-building or the later "Wirtschaftswunder".
OP Atch 16 | 2,647    
30 Nov 2018  #534
The idea that re-education achieves anything more than learning by rote the demanded answers when asked is naive. Humans just don't work that way.

Did you ever hear of the Scottish POW camp, Cultybraggan, where they interned the hardened SS men? They used Polish guards as they felt that the Brits would be too soft on them. Then a German took over. He had served with distinction in the First World War so they had respect for him. He proceeded to re-educate them. They rioted when he showed them the footage of Belsen, refusing to believe it was genuine. Eventually they were able to assemble in uniform and participate in a service for all the dead of the War from both sides where he read to them the Canadian First World War poem "In Flanders Fields'. Some of them settled in Scotland, many revisited the community in later years and retained ties with the local people. One who lived to an advanced age, left his estate of several hundred thousand pounds for the use of the village community.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,183    
30 Nov 2018  #535
Rehabilitation no problem a good thing, people escaping justice for violent and unjust crimes against the people, making illegal financial profit when being part of the totalitarian mechanism that suppressed a nation should be dealt with by the courts.

Plenty at every level in Poland that need to be dealt with, time for the communist era archives to be opened and evidence gathered from witnesses, reviewed and action taken where appropriate .
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
30 Nov 2018  #536
Did you ever hear of the Scottish POW camp, Cultybraggan, where they interned the hardened SS men?

I googled that...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultybraggan_Camp

Do you have more info on that german guard?
cms neuf - | 592    
30 Nov 2018  #537
Witnesses who are dead or senile, actions that will waste state resources and taxpayers money. Of course there are some people who have got away with crimes - but this is not even in the top 10 priorities for what Poland needs at the moment.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,183    
30 Nov 2018  #538
Of course there are some people who have got away with crimes

Criminal acts against the nation are a priority, using the poor excuse of dead and senile witnesses is no reason to allow the guilty to evade justice.

Plenty of old and senile Nazis have been judged and sentenced in the past, the crimes of some these communist era collaborators is no different, we are talking about torture and murder here let alone tens of millions of illegally gained money stolen from the people and hidden abroad.

We will never forget those murdered patriots who are buried in unmarked graves, there only crime was to stand for Poland's freedom.

The truth and justice will shine out sooner or later, of that I am sure.
Tacitus 1 | 766    
30 Nov 2018  #539
In my opinion the only way is to let the "Mitläufer" alone, cut out the fanatics and make sure they will never get a position of power ever again and time will do the rest.

Indeed. You need to fill the important positions with convinced (and capable) democrats, and make sure that the next generation is taught those values and learn to appreciate it. Both of those factors need to be fullfilled if you want to cause a lasting change in a country.

people escaping justice for violent and unjust crimes against the people

It would be interesting to know how the statute of limitation is in Poland. I suspect that most crimes -except for murder- falls already under the statute of limitations.
cms neuf - | 592    
30 Nov 2018  #540
Give over with the shining light of justice and the nazi comparisons. Much of the current wave sof decommunization is to either settle post 1989 scores or to line the pockets of PiS functionaries who take their place.

We are not talking about mass murderers here - those people should be tried, but they are mostly dead since that kind of repression was largely ended in the 50s. If we are talking about people who could shop in Pewex and might have cracked a few miners heads open in the early 80s while obeying orders, then that is a different level of magnitude from someone working in a concentration camp.



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