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EU confirms it will take action against Poland over court reforms


Ziemowit 10 | 2,956    
15 Nov 2017  #61
Ms Atch, could you explain that in some human language?
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,404    
15 Nov 2017  #62
Hahaha even left meaning ABC reporting on Poland defeating eu with the migration issue

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/leader-poland-won-migration-dispute-eu-51137933

Also fox/ap

foxnews.com/world/2017/11/14/leader-says-poland-has-won-its-migration-dispute-with-eu.html

Eu diktats mean little for Poland Hungary czech Slovakia etc. The unelected eu commission is only furthering the divide of eastern and western europe

"Poland today is seen as a country free from (islamic) terrorism."

Thanks we poles and our democratically elected, most popular party with double pos approval rating prefer to keep it that way regardless of what the eu does
OP Atch 15 | 2,440    
15 Nov 2017  #63
Ms Atch, could you explain that in some human language?

Well basically the MEPs, as opposed to the Commission, decided to take matters into their own hands so the member states got together and created a draft resolution in which they laid out their concerns about the various things that have been going on in Poland including the logging issue. I imagine that the Independence Day 'celebrations' were the final straw for a lot of other members. The resolution was voted on by the Parliament and as it's been passed, the Civil Liberties Committee will now prepare a proposal which calls on the European Council to trigger Article 7.

I think what's heartening about it is that it's an initiative coming, not from the administrative wing of the EU, but from the member states themselves, Poland's peers. If it comes to sanctions, I wouldn't bet on Orban keeping his word either. He's a self-serving individual and will act in his own interests, not Poland's.
OP Atch 15 | 2,440    
15 Nov 2017  #64
Just to add, regarding Hungary's veto, a similar resolution was adopted by the European Parliament against Hungary a few months ago, so the first step has already been taken in triggering Article 7 against them.There has been quite a lot of discussion in the media in recent months about the possibility of Article 7 being triggered simultaneously against both countries, thus preventing the veto. I was just watching Guy Verhofstadt speaking in Parliament a few minutes ago and he actually said that the time has come to act against Hungary also. Interesting times lie ahead.
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
15 Nov 2017  #65
a similar resolution was adopted by the European Parliament against Hungary a few months ago

and what happened so far Atch? like.. nothing?

so the first step has already been taken in triggering Article 7 against them.

Poland will veto triggering the Article 7 against Hungary - it will take eurocrats to break their own european treaties to trigger the Article for both Hungary and Poland at the same time
Tacitus 1 | 545    
15 Nov 2017  #66
@gumishu

Because the other EU members still had hope that Poland would return to sanity, but patience is obviously running out.
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
15 Nov 2017  #67
no - because the EU would have to break it's own treaties to strip both Poland and Hungary of voting rights at the same time, simple as that

if I should remind you the EU did eventually nothing when PiS changed the rules for the Constitutional Court
OP Atch 15 | 2,440    
15 Nov 2017  #68
Poland will veto triggering the Article 7 against Hungary

No, a mechanism exists by which they can trigger both simultaneously. They're both at exactly the same stage at present so in theory it can be done.

if I should remind you the EU did eventually nothing when PiS changed the rules for the Constitutional Court

They're still in the process of 'doing' something.
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
15 Nov 2017  #69
No, a mechanism exists by which they can trigger both simultaneously

yeah - where? show me

also the European Commission doesn't need the Europarliament approval or instigation to invoke Article 7 of Lisbon Treaty as far as I know - so? what are they waiting for? they could have done it 2 years ago, no?
OP Atch 15 | 2,440    
15 Nov 2017  #70
The Council needs to decide by unanimity and the Parliament needs to give its consent. The EU as a community doesn't believe in using such measures, except as an absolute last resort. That's why they've faffed around for so long.
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
15 Nov 2017  #71
The Council needs to decide by unanimity

here you go
OP Atch 15 | 2,440    
15 Nov 2017  #72
Yes, but a member state under 'reasoned proposal' is not allowed to sit on the Council for the purposes of voting/decision making.
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
15 Nov 2017  #73
aha, hmm - well maybe it changes a thing - but I will voice my opinion on that matter on Polish forums - ani kroku wstecz - not a step back - **** this idiotic club of the EU with double standards - the same rules for appointing judges are in place in Germany yet there is no accusation of 'breach of the rule of the law' for Germany

btw I am not bothered by the so called EU sanctions - the current financial perspective was anyway the last one where Poland was getting any substantial EU funds
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,404    
15 Nov 2017  #74
what are they waiting for? they could have done it 2 years ago, no?

Of course they won't because they know Poland, Hungary, Czech and now Austria are all united in their position on the EU's political infringement especially as it pertains to Merkels' now labeled burden which was previously referred to as cultural enrichment. Eastern and Western Europe are totally divided on this issue. The EU has in secret pushed a political union upon European citizens with a commission whom the people did not vote for. Even when countries rejected parts of the EU's dictates, like Holland, they just brought it in the back door anyway. Their far left socialist stance is only dividing Europe. They refuse to have a comprehensive realistic debate on how to solve the migrant crisis not to mention other issues like the unstable and declining Euro.

The v4 + 1 (Austria) is going to have each other's back esp PL and Hungary. Like PiS said, there is nothing the EU can do that is worse than forcing migrants onto PL. This has left the unelected douchebags like Juncker and his biatch I mean deputy Timmermans scratching their head along with Merkel - who refuses to even hold a German flag...

Poland doesn't even want to enter the Eurozone anyway... it's also rejected the IMF while at the same time growing its FDI consistently for a decade and rebuilding the entire country - with EU investments being used wisely and not to build stadiums like in Greece or any of the PIGS countries which are using the euro. Poland's growth is consistently outpacing Germany, France, etc. We've done without the Euro and can easily continue to. EU's problem is that Poland, V4, and even people involved with Brexit has called it's bluff time and time again. They cannot enforce their dictates without a pyrrhic victory.
Tacitus 1 | 545    
15 Nov 2017  #75
this idiotic club of the EU with double standards - the same rules for appointing judges are in place in Germany yet there is no accusation of 'breach of the rule of the law' for Germany

This is not true. In Germany, each judge needs to be approved by 2/3 of the members in both chambers of the German parliament.

@ Dirk please inform yourself about how the Eu works before you write your posts. Juncker is for example democratically elected, and the Visegrad group (with the exception of Hungary, but they might get under fire as well) have already stated that they won't back Poland over this.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,404    
15 Nov 2017  #76
Juncker is for example democratically elected

No he is not. Not by Polish people, not by German people, or any other EU nation. He is elected by the E Parliament which is stuffed with leftists from Germany, France, etc. and other countries attempting to push their 'burden' on countries who have nothing to do with the migrant crisis and do not want them. These people should be investigated for their collusion with Soros organization pushing for no borders and open migration along with the destruction of Christian Europe and religious and patriotic Slavs and V4 citizens but that's another story...

ave already stated that they won't back Poland over this

Good for them. So far its over 2 years and no migrants forced upon Poland from the EU, and no Islamic terror - despite us taking in over a million Ukranians ON OUR OWN because WE decided we wanted to. There will be no migrants forced upon Poland - and I think the marches on Saturday proved that. 75% of Poles reject migration from ME and Africa (source: CBOS).

Besides, Poland doesn't want to join the Eurozone because its weak and is gradually becoming a net payee. All they can do is try to withhold EU funds, which to my understanding are set anyway till something like 2019-2020 if not later. The problem is far too many countries and citizens East of Germany are rejecting the EU's dictates and becoming increasingly nation oriented and rejecting migration.
Crow 141 | 7,007    
15 Nov 2017  #77
ahaha haha hha hha. EU will take action against Poland? But EU doing it already in futile attempt to ruin Poland. Poland have powerful brothers- Serbians. Powerful and utterly crazy. Aagag hha hahah
Tacitus 1 | 545    
15 Nov 2017  #78
@Dirk diggler

Juncker was elected by the European parliament which was in return elected by the European people, end of discussion. Just because you don't like him doesn't change his democratic legitimacy.

- despite us taking in over a million Ukranians ON OUR OWN because WE decided we wanted to.

Sure, just like millions of Polish people have since the 2000s emigrated to other European countries. This has however nothing to do with the refugee situation.

Poland doesn't want to join the Eurozone because its weak and is gradually becoming a net payee.

When, in 2050? Maybe Poland will become a net payee in a few decades, but not sooner.

And yes, Poland will receive almost certainly less money from the next structural funds next time, which in return will last for several years. So the Polish people will have to suffer the consequences even after the current government is out of power. Which is sad, but a logical consequence.
cms 9 | 1,290    
15 Nov 2017  #79
How have the Brexit morons called their bluff ? Right now they are begging to remain a bit longer in the single market and the govt is probably going to fall pushing through a brexit bill. The EU is merely standing back and letting them self destruct
Ironside 47 | 9,038    
15 Nov 2017  #80
Well, time for Poland to make plans for the time when Poland will be saying good bye to the EU.

Damn commies!
cms 9 | 1,290    
15 Nov 2017  #81
Yep - we will prosper like Moldova and Serbia
Ironside 47 | 9,038    
15 Nov 2017  #82
need Some tissues?
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
15 Nov 2017  #83
This is not true. In Germany, each judge needs to be approved by 2/3 of the members in both chambers of the German parliament.

are you talking about regular judges or Supreme Court judges here?
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
15 Nov 2017  #84
As a rule, each decision on the initial employment, vesting with lifetime tenure or promotion of a judge is taken by the department of justice. Yet in some of the states there is some kind of a parliamentary body that needs to be heard or even has a say in some of the decisions on careers of individual judges (Richterwahlausschuss). The mostly decisive influence of the administration on the career of judges is exceptional in continental Europe, where mostly bodies of judges, elected by and within the judiciary take this kind of decision (e.g., France: conseil superieur de la magistrature, Italy: consiglio superiore della magistratura). By some it is regarded as a threat to judicial independence that with a view to their personal career judges might be inclined to specially regard possible political effects of their decisions or may choose to support a political party.

this is from wikipedia entry on German judiciary - it says it's administration of Bundeslaedner has the most say in appointing judges - so Tacitus - what would you say?
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
15 Nov 2017  #85
@gumishu

so Tacitus - what would you say?

either you mean Supreme Court judges (aka Federal Court Judges) or Constitutional Court judges - or you are simply lying

anyway judges should be elected by the population like in most states of the USA - then they can be really independent of politicians (but not independent of public scrutiny like it was in Poland)
Crow 141 | 7,007    
15 Nov 2017  #86
New Commonwealth would replace collapsing EU. Its just so obvious.

Yep - we will prosper like Moldova and Serbia

you moron. Last time Serbians overrun Poland, Poles got their golden age and Polish enemies penis between eyes. I mean all Polish enemies, that decided to be one. You better pray to Christ and to Svetovid that Serbians come when the right moment come.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,404    
15 Nov 2017  #87
New Commonwealth would replace collapsing EU. Its just so obvious.

Its already happening slowly but surely with V4 + Austria now cozying up to us.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,404    
15 Nov 2017  #88
Sure, just like millions of Polish people have since the 2000s emigrated to other European countries. This has however nothing to do with the refugee situation.

No it doesn't. The two are unrelated. We didn't ask for the host nations to rent us out a cruise ship and put us up in hotels, while demanding that they give us money so we can buy pierogi, placki, schabowe as well as send some back home (which migrants openly say they send money back to Syria/Iraq/etc in numerous interviews) because we don't like the food they give us for free. We came to work in those countries and the EU rules allowed us to. If the Muslims become EU citizens, they too can work in Poland if they decide to.

When, in 2050? Maybe Poland will become a net payee in a few decades, but not sooner.

Actually, they're aiming to be a net payee by the 2020's and already pay in around a bil a year while taking 7-9bil in investment funds. Hopefully the EU collapses first due to the leftists' refusal to compromise and desire to destroy Christian European society so Poland can just leave and not have to pay any money but still gets to enjoy the infrastructure the Germans, Brits, etc funded. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

And timmermans was appointed, Juncker was chosen by MEP's which are full of far left radicals from Germany, Belgium, France, etc.

politico.eu/article/timmermans-takes-poland-complaints-to-the-people
This is a year old - timmermans still hasn't been able to do sh1t to Poland

All unelected Eurocrats can do bark and bark and bark but never bite - and it looks like they never will.

'Where's the legitimacy?' Poland hits out at EU's 'unelected bureaucrats' in new row
newsbreakouts.com/wheres-the-legitimacy-poland-hits-out-at-eus-unelected-bureaucrats-in-new-row

"Fortunately, this activity of Mr. Timmermans is not taken seriously by the ratings agencies, by investors or by business people."
Absolutely true. Despite the losers and zaKODowani's claims, FDI continues to flow in, unemployment hit a new record low, and the economy is chugging along and growing more than Germany, France, etc.
Tacitus 1 | 545    
15 Nov 2017  #89
@gumishu

I was talking about the Supreme Court since this is in Poland a point of contention.
Crow 141 | 7,007    
15 Nov 2017  #90
Its already happening slowly but surely with V4 + Austria now cozying up to us.

no, Austria would later join with Germany, when final borders among civilizations would be drawn. Same as Croatia. I mean, that what remain of Croatia when shifting of borders in the region cease (ongoing process; but after all what borders in Europe are final; non for sure).




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