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Witamy, Guest
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EU confirms it will take action against Poland over court reforms


Tacitus 1 | 377    
27 Jul 2017  #31

y (!) pro-German and pro-Nazi regime.

You know we aren't living in the 1940s anymore right?

. Also, EU and NATO successfully awaking Polish-Russian antagonism in situation when Russia grow stronger.

As if there was any need for this. It is not the EU that still clings to the conspiracy theory against all evidence that Russia murdered the Polish president. Kaczynski does not need any encouragement for his enmity against Russia.

Marsupial - | 921    
27 Jul 2017  #32

Ironside your"re not polish stop pretending.
OP Atch 14 | 2,265    
27 Jul 2017  #33

the Hungarian "veto" that JK has been relying on doesn't actually exist.

There seems to be a great deal of confusion about this, thanks to sloppy journalism so I read the text of Article 7, it's very short. Basically, you can divide it into three steps:

1) The first step is that a proposal needs to be placed before the European Council (ie the heads of state of each EU member). There's no problem with that. That can go ahead with no difficulty.

2) An 80% majority of the member states needs to agree that there has been a serious breach of EU law. That's probably also not a problem. Tick the box for that one.

3) Applying the sanctions is then put the vote - according to the text of Article 7 the terms on which that vote is taken will be in accordance with those laid out in Article 354 of the Lisbon Treaty and here it is:

"when the Council does not act on a proposal from the Commission or from the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, the qualified majority shall be defined as at least 72% of the members of the Council representing Member States comprising at least 65% of the population of these States".

So it just goes to show, if you're a member of the public, never, never believe anything without checking it out for yourself first, as close as you can get to the source, and if you're a Head of State of an EU country, read the small print before you make an eejit of yourself in public.

The other thing this demonstrates actually, is the importance of transparency and how fortunate we are in the EU that we have the freedom of information that allows us to access, the terms of a treaty that directly affects our lives. Without that access, we would be obliged to rely solely on what is reported to us second-hand and kept in state of ignorance and confusion. Fast forward down the road 25 years and if PIS had its way, information would be coming to us soley from a state-controlled media. Not a pretty picture.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
27 Jul 2017  #34

You know we aren't living in the 1940s anymore right?

Nazism is Nazism.

Kaczynski does not need any encouragement for his enmity against Russia.

What I know, Kaczynski firstly accused Germany. See, I myself accusing circles from within western Europe.

Then, after all, western Europe (EU) is hostile on Russia (and on Slavs in general) and they just want Poland in that coitus, to be used as condom.
mafketis 16 | 5,681    
27 Jul 2017  #35

There is the strong possibility that EU deliberately pushing Poland on the edge, antagonize processes within country

So the _EU_ pushed Poland into having its ruling party come up with judicial "reform" that a third world banana republic would be embarassed by?

Ya gotta hand it to 'em, that EU is incredibly subtle and powerful if it can push ruling parties into trying to pass laws that fail at all international standards.

Chapeau bas!
Crow 145 | 6,860    
27 Jul 2017  #36

So the _EU_ pushed Poland into having its ruling party come up with judicial "reform" that a third world banana republic would be embarassed by?

Yet that same EU never reacted on clear Nazi policy of Croatia. How that? Why? Who protects Croatia? Or, take Estonia for another Nazi example (still, not that obvious as Croatia).

No embarrassment because of Nazism?

Now, as for judicial reforms in Poland, I`m not an expert on that field but, in my opinion Poland do have right to reform its judicial system, on its sovereign territory and if majority of Polish public support it thru its selected representatives on elections. Good to know that EU isn`t omnipotent entity which knows everything. On the contrary. EU ruling establishment making quite stupid mistakes (or maybe we just have to think of it as of mistakes).

Bottom line is that when Poland had ideas about freedom, democratically and judicially organized state, had `Sarmatism`, western Europeans still used their hands and fingers to eat (as it was nicely recorded in Serbian medieval chronicles, about guests from Germany, particularly about Friedrich Barbarossa).

Ya gotta hand it to 'em, that EU is incredibly subtle and powerful if it can push

Yes, EU pushing Poland. You have classical example of bigger system (EU) that pressuring smaller system (Poland). Such a pressure may result in serious problems when smaller system making its attempts to resist to pressure of bigger system (entire structure of society is shaken). Mistakes are possible and even most probable. EU knows that and EU pushing Poland, same as pushed Yugoslavia.
Lyzko 17 | 4,603    
27 Jul 2017  #37

According to the latest reports from the US as well as the international news agencies, Bruxelles is considering a warning, but no sanctions as of yet.
TheOther 5 | 3,473    
27 Jul 2017  #38

You have classical example of bigger system (EU) that pressuring smaller system (Poland).

And your "smaller system" signed up for it...
Ironside 46 | 8,800    
27 Jul 2017  #39

is capable of swinging a bunch of new deals that will make up for eu funds?

Those EU founds ain't that helpful for the economy. Its main benefit for Poland lies in injecting more money into the economy as it is badly needed. Those money from the EU as they are, are more harmful than helpful.

You are all obsessed with money.

what can poland offer america?

A good business, a place to invest. A hub for selling American gas into all Central and eastern Europe.
weg04    
27 Jul 2017  #40

Well, The EU doesn't have much to do with the security of Poland.

Unaware the the EU has a mutual defence pact especially financial support? no surprise coming from a Yank
delphiandomine 86 | 16,477    
27 Jul 2017  #41

Those money from the EU as they are, are more harmful than helpful.

Yes yes, of course. Those farmers want nothing more than to return to the good old days when they were highly dependent upon the crumbs from the government.

You are all obsessed with money.

Could that be because most people in Poland didn't enjoy a comfortable nomeklatura upbringing?
Harry 81 | 13,362    
27 Jul 2017  #42

Those farmers want nothing more than to return to the good old days

Have you not read about PIS's plan to re-establish collective farms?
weg04    
27 Jul 2017  #43

According to the latest reports from the US as well as the international news agencies, Bruxelles is considering a warning, but no sanctions as of yet.

The EU cant and wont do anything... Except cut the money when the renegotiation starts.
Brexit alone will ensure it and why should the EU pay to support a country where a good part of the population don't share their values?
Ironside 46 | 8,800    
27 Jul 2017  #44

Unaware the the EU has a mutual defence pact especially financial support?

Gonna shoot money on an invading enemy? lol

Those farmers

Are you a framer now? Have they elect you as their representative? No? well...
delphiandomine 86 | 16,477    
27 Jul 2017  #45

Have you not read about PIS's plan to re-establish collective farms?

I was just thinking that, maybe this is the plan! Replace the EU subsidies with large collective farms, and farmers will have no reason to complain.

Are you a framer now? Have they elect you as their representative? No? well...

The more you post about Poland, the more I'm convinced you have zero connection with modern day Poland.

Farmers like the CAP because it guarantees them a stable income, unlike the situation before 2004 when they were at the mercy of governments and food processors.
jgrabner 1 | 51    
28 Jul 2017  #46

An 80% majority of the member states needs to agree that there has been a serious breach of EU law.

which version of Art. 7 TEU have you been reading? The current law of the land can be found here:
eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:12012M007 and Art. 7 sec. 2-3 are as follows:

2. The European Council, acting by unanimity on a proposal by one third of the Member States or by the Commission ... may determine the existence of a serious and persistent breach...
3. Where a determination under paragraph 2 has been made ...including the voting rights

While the proposal needs to be made only by 1/3 of the Member States or (in the case of Poland) by the Commission, there is a need for unanimity in the Council to "determine the existence of a serious and persistent breach". Only if this unanimity is reached, paragraph 3 again works with the Lisbon qualified majority rules. But without the preceding unanimous vote, ยง3 cannot be invoked.

Although I wonder if they even would get a qualified majority.
Harry 81 | 13,362    
28 Jul 2017  #47

there is a need for unanimity in the Council to "determine the existence of a serious and persistent breach".

You mean a 27:1 vote, just as there was the last time Poland really wanted something.

Although I wonder if they even would get a qualified majority.

27:1
mafketis 16 | 5,681    
28 Jul 2017  #48

I wonder if they even would get a qualified majority.

With the refugee issue? No. There's too much regional opposition to Merkel's catastrophic miscalculation.

On the other hand, the judicial "reform" is impossible to defend on any grounds but blatant partisanship (and/or the idea that governments should be able to jail political opponents at will, which is one of the real goals, to convict Donald Tusk of something (anything!) so that he can't run for president (should he so desire).

I don't think any Polish allies will want to risk their own hide for PiS's legislative partial birth abortion.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,477    
28 Jul 2017  #49

Although I wonder if they even would get a qualified majority.

The large amount of money still unused from Poland's share of the EU budget is waiting, and there are some very hungry mouths to feed.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
28 Jul 2017  #50

EU can even fart but Poland won`t tremble.
Lyzko 17 | 4,603    
28 Jul 2017  #51

Without NATO and without the EU, Europe, to which Poland rightfully belongs, would be finished!
G (undercover)    
15 Aug 2017  #52

Yeah the sky would fail over our heads...

EU's "actions" are a joke but in the long therm the whole thing will quite likely be shrinked. Simply because UK is leaving and the southern countries got poorer. EUnuchs have not enough cash. The "EU funds" will be reduced even if Poland took in islamists and Kacz. was bowing to the picture of Merkel twice a day. What many people (usually less briny - the lefties) don't understand, EU is not only about distribution of funds, it is first of all built around countless "politics" and regulations, which are tailored to the needs of Germany and several other "core" countries. Poland needs to be on plus a good couple of billions EUR annually just to reach break even point in this whole business. What else is there in it for us ? C02 madness ? Distribution of savages ? They will simply not afford to keep us in.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
15 Aug 2017  #53

Without NATO and without the EU, Europe, to which Poland rightfully belongs, would be finished!

you mean, most of Europe belong to Poland and to other Slavs.

Russians are wise. They took Kaliningrad in time. They would take more when western European elite saturate its own population and countries with more and more non-European refugees and, when white Europeans start to seek their new identity- in fact their lost Slavic roots.
dolnoslask 4 | 1,806    
17 Sep 2017  #54

Well thats it the EU have woken the dragon that is Solidarity.

Anti-Juncker protest hits Warsaw as Polish defiance of 'EU occupation' spills onto streets
express.co.uk/news/world/855159/Juncker-Warsaw-Poland-European-Union-Timmersman

We have Shaken off Commie occupation, there is no way the EU is going to invade Poland with its flawed policies.
TheOther 5 | 3,473    
17 Sep 2017  #55

Well, demand a referendum then and leave. Maybe Blair's call for the eastern enlargement of the EU in 2004 was a mistake after all?
jon357 69 | 13,491    
17 Sep 2017  #56

You mean a 27:1 vote, just as there was the last time Poland really wanted something.

Basically this. They voted to follow the rules, and the rules they will follow.
Crow 145 | 6,860    
17 Sep 2017  #57

Well, demand a referendum then and leave.

Idioto. When Poland leave, many would follow. Without Poland there is no EU.

Not to mention that Serbians arriving and Poles knows what that mean. They packing already, aware that EU practically already died, what would in turn even more accelerate end of EU monstrosity created by western Europe.

EU is practically like a man with diarrhea and vomit at the same time. Opening itself on every hole.
jon357 69 | 13,491    
17 Sep 2017  #58

Without Poland there is no EU.

It managed fine before Poland's accession.

Serbians

An irrelevance.
TheOther 5 | 3,473    
18 Sep 2017  #59

When Poland leave, many would follow.

Oh really. Who would leave? Greece? The sooner, the better.

Without Poland there is no EU.

You are overestimating the importance of Poland. Just like the U.K. in the past, the country is slowly building a bad reputation in other member states - moaning, whinging and complaining non-stop.

Not to mention that Serbians arriving

Just what Europe needs: more welfare queens waiting for handouts.
OP Atch 14 | 2,265    
15 Nov 2017  #60

At last - the European Parliament has voted by 438 votes to 152 with 71 abstentions to prepare a formal request that the Council activate the preventive mechanism provided for in Article 7.1.




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