The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 734

Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash


Harry
14 May 2015  #661
The root cause was negligence, neglect, poor planning and a slighting attitude to the presidential delegation, since King Donald was supposed to take centre stage.

Would that be the same Donald who flew on that same plane to that same airport with that same pilot a couple of days earlier? The guinea pig premier.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467
15 May 2015  #662
And the same one who kissed and hugged, smiled broadly and joked with his buddy Putin. That's why he made it a point to go earlier. Apparently two days earlier there was no fog and they didn't take off from Warsaw with faulty weather forecasts.
Roger5 1 | 1,463
15 May 2015  #663
And Tusk knew there would be fog two days later;-)
jon357 64 | 14,382
15 May 2015  #664
I wouldn't put it past Macierewicz, certain publications - in fact some of the scarier cranks in PL - to suggest the Russians were 'cloud seeding' or some such.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467
15 May 2015  #665
Tusk didn't know but lucked out because there was no fog.
Harry
15 May 2015  #666
Not so much being lucky, more not being so arrogant as to think he knew more about flying a plane than a Polish air force officer.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467
25 Nov 2015  #667
Merged: Tusk should face State Tribunal - govt spox

"When I see what shape Poland is in and compare what other Polish politicians have been tried by the State Tribunal for, it wouild be a good thing for Donald Tusk," government spokesperson Elżbieta Witek told a TVN24 interviewer adding that was her private view. "There is a colossal difference between the way Holland and Russia have behaved in the face of air disasters compared to the way the Polish government reacted following the Smolensk catastrophe," she added.

rp.pl/Kraj/151129631-Witek-Trybunal-dla-Tuska-dobra-sprawa.html?template=restricted
Ktos 17 | 461
25 Nov 2015  #668
Tusk will not face tribunal for a long time, Kaczynski is seeking revenge and with all his power he can not even start the investigation, it's been five years already, Tusk is protected by foreign collaborators who are covering for him.
Harry
25 Nov 2015  #669
compare what other Polish politicians have been tried by the State Tribunal for, it wouild be a good thing for Donald Tusk," government spokesperson Elżbieta Witek

So, the PIS spokesperson thinks that it's appropriate for her to libel Poland's most senior politician, how surprising. Tusk could report her to the prosecutor for criminal libel but no doubt her boss would just tell 'President' Duda to sign another of the blank pardons issued to PIS criminals.

Holland and Russia have behaved in the face of air disasters

Which crash of a French airplane is she referring to?

"There is a colossal difference between the way Holland and Russia have behaved in the face of air disasters compared to the way the Polish government reacted following the Smolensk catastrophe,"

The crash of the Russian plane was due to terrorists putting a bomb on it. The crash of the Polish plane was due to the Polish crew flying it into the ground after being told not to but doing so due to pressure from a certain VIP.

Kaczynski is seeking revenge

You finally got something right! PIS isn't Law and Justice, PIS is Criminals and Revenge.
Levi 13 | 451
25 Nov 2015  #670
Tusk is protected by foreign collaborators who are covering for him.

Tusk is a lapdog of Angela merkel on her project of destroy Europe.
Harry
25 Nov 2015  #671
That's your version. In reality Tusk holds an electoral record of eleven wins and two losses. Given that record of support, perhaps you should re-evaluate your wish to come and live in our wonderful country.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467
26 Nov 2015  #672
Tusk will not face tribunal for a long time

When his term as Council president ends and he refuses to return to Poland to face the music, he will be extradited. His glib rhetoric and smooth and slippery ways enabled him to pull the wool over Poles' eyes for 8 years, but luckily Polish voters have finally seen through the PO (Platform of Offenders) and voted them out of office. As they further compromise themselves with their internal power struggle, one wonders whetehr they'll even clear the 5% threshold in the next election..
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
26 Nov 2015  #673
In reality Tusk holds an electoral record of eleven wins and two losses.

Indeed. It's quite conceivable that Tusk will come back in 2020 to send Duda packing.
mafketis 17 | 6,910
26 Nov 2015  #674
I

His glib rhetoric and smooth and slippery ways enabled him to pull the wool over Poles' eyes for 8 years

Without concrete charges you're typing out your &ss (and hardly for the first time). Name _specific_ crimes that you think he can be charged with or give up your pathetic non-Christian hate.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
26 Nov 2015  #675
He...he...insulted Kaczyński!

Personally, this whole Smolensk thing is going to be funnier and funnier as time goes on. I predict that we'll see some Stalinist show trials towards a couple of minor civil servants, but there won't be any resolution before 2019.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467
26 Nov 2015  #676
before 2019.

That's when in that year's election PiS win 51% of the vote, Petru 20%, Kukiz 10% and Korwin 6%. What about Platforma? - someone may ask. Platforma? What Platforma? Their former top MPs at that time will be into insurance scams and fraudulent online tourist firms -- the less prominent ex-MPs will be trading in copper wiring stolen from the railways or working as shoplifters and pickpockets.
mafketis 17 | 6,910
27 Nov 2015  #677
Personally, this whole Smolensk thing is going to be funnier and funnier as time goes on.

If by 'funny' you mean "a tragic waste of time and resources that would better be spent on something else" then yes, it will be funnier and funnier.

there won't be any resolution before 2019.

I was watching Macierewicz emote last night on the news and I had an epiphany. He wants Poland to be a poor, downtrodden, victimized country. He hates the modern, more well off country that Poland is becoming and can't stand the idea of Poland not being invaded or occupied by somebody. He wants to live forever under the heel of oppressors. He desperately needs Russia to oppress Poland and he'll settle for nothing less.

But this issue is a _major_ loser among younger voters and PiS pursues it at the risk of losing them (all the ones I've talked to voted against PO rather than for PiS and they are not.... enchanted by the party that has shown up in the Sejm). The issue they care about most is job creation and PiS is essentially doing nothing there (because there's nothing they can do but that's a separate issue).
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
27 Nov 2015  #678
If by 'funny' you mean "a tragic waste of time and resources that would better be spent on something else" then yes, it will be funnier and funnier.

That too. But it's pretty obvious that they can't actually produce any conclusion beyond going after minor civil servants, and so they'll drag it out for 4 years. Macierewicz, of course, will vanish in the 6 months before the election.

He hates the modern, more well off country that Poland is becoming and can't stand the idea of Poland not being invaded or occupied by somebody.

I would argue that it's not just Macierewicz - Kaczyński and a lot of PiS supporters seem to want the same thing. Wish I could understand it.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467
27 Nov 2015  #679
Name _specific_ crimes

Mysteriosu Arab Shipyard investors, Smolensk wreckage not repatriated, OFE heist, tape scandal, gambling scandal, just the first few that come to mind. There is a whole PDF full of them on here somewhere.
Harry
27 Nov 2015  #680
Mysteriosu Arab Shipyard investors

What exact crime was committed? Which law was broken? More to the point, shouldn't you be keeping quiet about the shipyards after your favourite priest begged lots of money from little old ladies to "save the shipyards" and then spent it on other things?

Smolensk wreckage not repatriated

What exact crime was committed?

OFE heist

No crime at all was committed there and PIS are going to take even more.

tape scandal

What crime was committed there (other than the crimes committed by the people who did the taping)?

I could go on.
Ironside 47 | 9,574
27 Nov 2015  #681
Every law in the book Harry. It wasn't the way an independent government goes about a crash of their head of state airplane. That was disgrace and a blatant display of dilettantism in action unless there were sinister motives involved and that need to be investigated.

there is no way that some party can believe itself above the law and above consequences of their actions, not even your beloved PO.
Harry
27 Nov 2015  #682
Every law in the book Harry.

Name three. Name three specific laws that were broken and state who broke them.

It wasn't the way an independent government goes about a crash of their head of state airplane.

I wasn't aware that there was a protocol for such crashes. Generally most other nations take great care to ensure that the aircraft carrying their heads of state don't crash, but then I suppose that no other head of state has ever publicly called his pilot a coward for refusing to make an unscheduled landing in a war-zone on an un-scouted un-researched runway.
Ironside 47 | 9,574
27 Nov 2015  #683
I wasn't aware that there was a protocol for such crashes.

Well, there is always a time to educate yourself Harry,

Name three. Name three specific laws that were broken and state who broke them.

Hence you are not even a Polish citizen I cannot be bothered. I leave it to the investigators.
Harry
27 Nov 2015  #684
I leave it to the investigators.

Nice try to use an ad hom deflection but you need to try harder. Name three specific laws that were broken and say who broke them. Alternatively just admit that you can't name them, because they weren't broken and your statement that "Every law in the book" was broken is just another lie.

Well, there is always a time to educate yourself Harry,

It's a pity for all the other people on that plane that there isn't time to educate Kaczynski about a few fundamental principles of flying.
mafketis 17 | 6,910
27 Nov 2015  #685
Kaczyński and a lot of PiS supporters seem to want the same thing.

It has to do with rejection of responsibility. If Poland is an eternally victimized country then there's no need to ever reflect on things that Poland might be responsible for. If it becomes a prosperous country in control of its fate then it can and will be judged like any other country. That's a terrifying prospect for some people. It's easy to retreat into the warm security of victimhood where only other actors need be held accountable.
Harry
27 Nov 2015  #686
If Poland is an eternally victimized country then there's no need to ever reflect on things that Poland might be responsible for.

It's also about rejection of personal responsibility for failure. PIS supporters are used to failing (the only times they ever comparatively succeed are when others fail even more) and so they assume that they will fail. By setting themselves up as victims they can blame that failure on other people rather than themselves. Smolensk is a good example of that. The plane crashed because of Polish failures and because Kaczynski was an arrogant prick who thought he had the right to tell pilots where, when and how to fly. But rather than reflecting on that Polish failure and the personal failure personified by their leader, the PISites create a parallel universe where the Russians were responsible for the death of a politician who was heading for utter humiliation at the polls in a matter of months.
G (undercover)
27 Nov 2015  #687
Yawn... meanwhile life goes on...
Ironside 47 | 9,574
27 Nov 2015  #688
ad hom

lie.

That is quite enough Harry. I see that my posts are causing your state to worsen hence I will ignore you for a while for your own good.

It's easy to retreat into the warm security of victimhood where only other actors need be held accountable.

Would you care to elaborate? It is hard to phantom how you could come to such a conclusion?
Harry
27 Nov 2015  #689
I see that my posts are causing your state to worsen hence I will ignore you for a while for your own good.

What an original way of responding to being called out on such a laughably obvious lie as "Every law in the book" was broken when the reality is that you can't even name three specific laws that were broken and say who broke them.
mafketis 17 | 6,910
27 Nov 2015  #690
Would you care to elaborate? It is hard to phantom how you could come to such a conclusion?

It's a model of Balkanesque nationalism* where the nation is utterly helpless (like an infant) in a hostile world. Any harm done by the nation is not its fault and any harm done to the nation is definitely the fault of malevolent actors. It's a retreat to childhood safety and avoidance of judgement. Once you're aware of the model you can't miss it in the real world if you're paying attention.

*I first read of the concept by a Croatian author (pretty sure it was Dubravka Ugrešić) who was disgusted by the grotesque forms of nationalism propogated in the newly independent Croatia in the early 1990s.


Home / News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.