A devestating verdict on the Polish church

Nobody can accuse Father Wiśniewski of being anti-Polish. The Stasi had put him on a list of the 60 most-dangerous Poles.
A bit strange then (or maybe not) that all the nationalists on this forum did not mention this open letter.
Some points:
- Half the Polish priests are xenofobic, nationalist and antisemitic
- The Episcopate does not know how to handle Radio Maryja, a station which promotes fanaticism and hate
- Part of the Episcopate is publsihing in "Nasz Dziennik" and supported the Crossists

Not surprisingly the nationalist religionists have kept a deafeniung silence about this.
Hard to attack somebody who was in the thick of the fight during the years of wilderness.

It's a very interesting letter - and pretty much makes it clear that if the Polish church doesn't watch itself, they'll end up destroying themselves - just as they've done in Spain and Italy.


Calling Polonius3, Sokrates and all the dumb American Polacks - where are you?

But of course they won't mention it - the nationalists will have convinced themselves already that Wiesniewski is some sort of traitor.

Where are the religionists ?

wouldn't that be fantastic, to rid yourself of the shackles of fictional bullsh*t.
The sooner the better.

and Sweden for example...

They have gone to pray in one of the churches supporting Father Director [what a silly title indeed: Father Director!], or thay are busy reading "Nasz Dziennik" right now.

Could the same not be said about the, once upon a time hero Robert Mugabe.

Yeah, I bet most Poles can't wait for RC to collapse and be replaced with a much better alternative that Swedes have had the taste of as of late. After all, Islam is a religion of peace :)

Torq will say that GW has fabricated the article ;)

Anyways, there is nothing new in this article, but I am glad that the criticism comes from the church itself.

Accusations of this priest aside its alarming that GW publishes so many articles that in effect attack the church, i wonder why do they see the need to attack the Catholic Church so much?


Why? He's a priest and a director of a large radio station, i'm curious how much more anti-christian you can become?

The problem is that the Church does a hell of a lot of good in Poland as well - but all the good work is ruined by the minority.


This isn't an attack on the church to begin with, so why call it that?

Whjy is it ruined? Personally i feel that the church does mountains of good and attacks on it are largely unjustified.


But it is! Not by the priest of course but by Gazeta Wyborcza, i wonder could it be because so many of its top brass are jewish ex-communists with a bone to pick with a church?

The question that this thread begs to ask is why Gazeta Wyborcza assaults the church with such iron consequence and such mindless agression, why every critique, every minor episode instantly becomes a major article in GW.

Communist heritage of Gw?

That's the essence of it: it is not an attack on the Polish church. It is rather an attack on the paganism within the Polish church, paganism so well established and cherished under the name of Jesus ...

Gibberish, why does an essentially ex communist newspaper attack the church so much though?

I haven't seen Swedish people converting to Islam, especially not because the Church there went bankrupt.
Now the Swedish Church is called IKEA. And the real Church often looks like cinema, has caffeteria and lobby - anything to attract the missing followers. I even saw free donuts outside a church in Göteborg. They were giving them after the mass to those who were comming out of the building. Nice marketing.

And spirituality is where?

Dunno. Apparently Swedes reached the age of reason and don't fall for those tricks so easily.
And if you ask about the spirituality of the Church in Sweden - perhaps they try harder so the "quality of service" is also higher and the priests may be real shepherds too.

Spiritual donuts... hmmmm.

You believe life without faith or a higher deeper purpose is reasonable? Searching for God or the greater good is a "trick"?


You mean like MacDonalds sellers? Sorry mate to me your age of reason reeks of dark ages and barbarity, thats also why so many Swedes convert to Islam, with no answers provided by their own culture they choose an alternative, a poor one but still an alternative.

Sweden and Western Europe is increasingly becoming a moral and spiritual wasteland, sorry if for more your age of reason is a pit full of mindless soulless animals.

Soulless? Soulless is donating money to fund some giant grotesque statue - while letting people die of the cold.

You mean hundreds of shelters run by church in Poland do not help people? Oh wait they do!

I accept your concession :)

The problem is where the attacks have merit. Look at Poznan - the Church here has committed two massive mistakes within a year. First of all, they tried to kick out a public school from a building that they "reclaimed" - and now they're trying to claim 95 million zloty for parcels of land near Lake Malta - land which was already subject to an agreement between the City and Church.

These two incidents are the tip of the iceberg - and this the problem.


Or could it be that their readership doesn't believe in the all-reaching, all-emcompassing power of the Church? Could it be that the newspaper is run by people who didn't want to replace the dictatorship of Communism with a dictatorship of the Church?

The article isn't an attack by Gazeta Wyborcza - instead, it's probably one of the few outlets that could carry such a story with a degree of credibility. Unless of course, you subscribe to the belief that the Church should not be questioned - ever.


You might want to ask yourself why opponents of Gazeta Wyborcza pick on their every move with the same mindless aggression. Perhaps you might also want to question why the lower elements of society tend to attack Germans and Russians with venom, while other people have moved on. Exactly the same situation.


If anything, it's an attack on the way that the Church has failed to adapt in Poland. Really, all the priest has done is say publicly what everyone is thinking - that it's an institution in crisis.


Ex communist newspaper? Do you need reminded again that the editor in chief was locked up for several years by the communists? Nah...doesn't suit your agenda to admit that, does it?


The problem isn't with the hundreds of shelters, but rather where the money comes from to fund such shelters. Don't forget, the Church enjoys quite a few concessions - what's a few shelters to fund when you've already looted the country for billions?

Like the constant oppression of the people, the way they dictate to people how to vote from their pews. Their constant xenophobic, homophobic and anti-every religion bar catholicism.

Plus all the child molestation that goes on behind closed doors.


including victims of rape, molestation and racism from within the church.

They are scum and have done nothing, absolutely nothing to further the advancement of the human race, they've constantly been engaged in trying to keep us from progression forward for about 2000 years.

- That's a good question. I think it is everyone's personal decision. The trick I meant was the "marketing: approach and what the Church has done with initial sources and the history of this creed.


- I just wrote they don't convert - would you care to provide any source for your judgement? Have you been there?


- That is a relative notion and it seems you are being biased as everything that is not Catholic is wasteland for you... and again:


- Who and what exactly you call that? You seem to be very open minded;))


- Well, they have similar methods of attracting customers!


- And you are judging that on what actually? Because everything not Christian/Catholic is barbaric? Acknowledge the fact that ethics is much older than Christianity and there came nothing new with this religion. Most of the stuff is borrowed anyway. Need sources? I'll give them to you but first just read the Bible or we won't be talking on the same level.


- That's one of the things I mean - marketing investments instead of taking care of the initial principles that are long-forgotten now.


- I read about that, in Krakow there are similar cases together with the oldest football team Cracovia being almost kicked out by greedy sisters who claimed their land back on slightly silly proofs and also wanted sky-high prices.

Yesterday I pushed out your crappy thread out of PF main window. Obviously Polish Jews (you and delfiandomine) hate to be ignored. :-)


Keep screeming and please tell everbody how many parcels Poznań's Jewish community get quaietly and for free. And please say I'm lier. :-)

This is exactly what the problem is with the Church - it seems completely unable to deal with issues like this. The Episcopate itself cannot decide to keep out of politics - so what hope is there for the ordinary priests?


Yup. While we have to accept that priests are only human - someone should have said "hey, no!" before the whole project started. The fact that the priest in charge of the project has repeatedly declined to say how much it costs says it all.


I think this is really all Poland's own fault in a way - they totally failed to put a time limit on such claims - and now that the land is worth something, suddenly it's all being claimed.

I'm not a huge fan of the SLD, but I thoroughly support their call for a proper investigation into many of these claims.

I was at an illegal demo in 1988.
Michnik had no problems with ZOMO precisely because he was a Commie.

Commie background - but he found himself on the losing side in the Party infighting of '68 (yes he was very young), but not without friends. This is how he managed to travel around Europe for next to nothing - it helps when consular lodgings are always available.

He was an intellectual who wanted revenge for his Commie wing losing.

Then lo and behold! he becomes an anti-clerical. Gosh, what a surprise!

Anyway, re the actual story that started off this thread, it's time the sensible people in the Church fought back against the morons who want to fight the great bash-the-anti-Poles brigade. These cretins have power within the Church to do real harm. The Radio-Kobylański Nazi wing should not be underestimated, but no support will be forthcoming from General von Ratzinger - thereby leaving the way open for endless attacks by the anti-Polish brigade.

Using jewish behavior in Poland as a precedent, we need to get some really good legal representation for the Palestinians and do to the israelis what their people do to others in other countries. Take the land back. Just think, we could end a majority of the fighting in the world today in the process.

As far as the church goes, the RCC is probably the greatest holder of wealth on earth so I really wouldn't spend half a second worrying about them.

Maybe that news site could get a translate widgety.

Why don't you all imported critics of the Church in Poland kindly **** off to your own country's you you are having one. Nobody is interested in your worthless opinions bordering on obsession on the subject which is non of your business anyway!

I'm pretty sure it's called the Roman Catholic Church for reasons that have very little to do with Poland.

why don't you head to Vatican City and tell them to stay out of Poland too?

Are you Roman Catholic ? If not mind your business. If yes mind business of your national Catholic Church. Wara Ci od mojego!


Głupich nie sieją.