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Polish church music versus African-American gospel


wslipach 8 | 78
7 Jun 2024 #1
Polish church music is kinda boring, out of that church organs are impressive as is the church choir, but other than that it is dead boring. Compare that to African-American music which is hip and fun. If in Poland we tuned it up a bit , it would be more interesting and more ppl would come to church.
johnny reb 50 | 7,221
7 Jun 2024 #2
If in Poland we tuned it up a bit , it would be more interesting and more ppl would come to church.

Spot On !
The Evangelists here in America have done this in the last decade to get the younger people coming to church.
The old, How Great Thou Art and Blessed Assurance are outdated now.
Now when you walk in the drums are BOOM BOOM BOOM and the microphones have wailing women screaming in it with electric guitars and you think you just walked into a bar someplace downtown at midnight.

But if it draws the younger folks in.........what the hey.
I just don't go in until the la la la is over because it hurts my ears.
God understands.
jon357 75 | 22,638
7 Jun 2024 #3
If in Poland we tuned it up a bit , it would be more interesting and more ppl would come to church.

Something like this would do nicely and bring something new to most village churches.


Poloniusz 4 | 736
8 Jun 2024 #4
Polish church music is kinda boring...Compare that to African-American music which is hip and fun.

There is no Polish church.

Gospel music is for protestants anyway (at least for the ones who don't worship Israel).

But if it draws the younger folks in.........what the hey.

Older and now retired generations wanted churches to be entertainment venues. Many of them were thrilled when "Godspell" hit Broadway and became a film. In practice though the "clown masses" were never going to deliver in increasing attendance. The use of "Pride" flags finally drove the few remaining congregants away to those churches offering the Tridentine Mass or into Orthodox churches.

Indeed, for young people today those who are interested in faith want solemnity.

Why is the Latin Mass so popular with young people?

- first, that the Latin Mass provides a sense of community with other young Catholics that's missing elsewhere, and second, that young Catholics today want doctrinal orthodoxy and clarity.

- It's counter-cultural in a way that is deeply authentic.

- The world is increasingly secular, woke, authoritarian, humanistic, fake, modernist, ugly, and persecutorial. Young people know this. They see the signs and they want something that is very far from this world. The TLM is ethereal and stable. The Novus Ordo is banal and much more worldly, and far less reverent. It often does not remind us of Heaven. The TLM does.


reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/v3bvcv/why_is_the_latin_mass_so_popular_with_young_people/

Something like this would do nicely and bring something new to most village churches.

Do a pilot project in your synagogues and mosques first.
OP wslipach 8 | 78
8 Jun 2024 #5
Something like this would do nicely and bring something new to most village churches.

@ jon357

Yeah , something like this , but with better beat.

There is no Polish church.

Gospel music is for protestants anyway (at least for the ones who don't worship Israel).

Who cares, there is music played in Polish churches and that is my point , oh sorry Vatican churces borrowed by Poland for a while.

If gospel music is only for protesants then Catholics should copy it, sounds faking good and kids would like to come to church if some ****** jumped up on the desk and danced for the Lord. Instead we have white crap funeral music.
mafketis 37 | 10,916
8 Jun 2024 #6
American gospel music came in two flavors (though the two were a bit mixed until the 1920s)

White gospel music was similar to country (but group oriented and with more percussion) a pretty typical 1970s example might be the Happy Goodmans

youtube.com/watch?v=PY6GN5tXd2s

Black gospel music came from spirituals (which originated in the period of slavery and which deal with a longing for freedom and/or heaven and/or alienation).

Later these mixed with secular music like ragtime, blues and jazz.

Arizona Dranes was something of a precursor.

youtube.com/watch?v=83VydN-q8e0

By the 1940s gospel music was firmly established among African Americans with stars such as Brother Joe May

youtube.com/watch?v=h7ExcTBYpBU

The integration of elements of gospel music with rhythm and blues produced Soul Music (many performers of which began in gospel like Gladys Knight)

youtube.com/watch?v=iwivWKsL65c

By the 1960s white audiences where listening and gospel performers were making appearances on mainstream tv...

youtube.com/watch?v=VrrlU2Njt7I

Aretha Franklin recorded a double album in church in the early 1970s and by the early 1980s a pair of theatrical documentaries (gospel and say amen somebody) brought the music to wider secular audiences.

At the same time the line between white and black began to blur and some white churches adopted some black gospel songs (and some performance practices)

it should be noted that part of the role of churches for African Americans has traditionally been stress release.... worshippers give themselves up to their emotions and vent them freely during church and then go back to business as usual Monday.

Also it should be noted that almost all African American culture is based on dialogue (which is the basis of the call and response pattern found in black churches).

There are choirs in Poland that perform gospel music (both on stage and in church) though call and response or emotional abandonment are not traditional Polish practices.

Gospel music has almost universal appeal both to the religious and to non-believers. It's no surprise that some in Poland like it.
Poloniusz 4 | 736
8 Jun 2024 #7
If gospel music is only for protesants then Catholics should copy it, sounds faking good and kids would like to come to church if some ****** jumped up on the desk and danced for the Lord.

If Catholics in Poland wanted to become protestants they would have centuries ago. There is nothing stopping them from converting now either.

However, many young Poles aren't interested in any religion and would rather spend their time and money going on holidays overseas than tithing and jiving in some local church (whatever the denomination is).

Instead we have white crap funeral music.

Okay, Szlomo. Care to share your stories about the music, song and dance crisis plaguing synagogues, mosques and temples around the world and how they are using African-American cultural influences to overcome it?


jon357 75 | 22,638
8 Jun 2024 #8
If Catholics in Poland wanted to become protestants they would have centuries ago.

Many did, however they weee dragged back according to the political affiliations of their local magnaty.

Surprising you didn't know that...

How Great Thou Art

Not a song you'd hear much in Germany...
pawian 223 | 24,572
8 Jun 2024 #9
If Catholics in Poland wanted to become protestants they would have centuries ago

I became protestant a few years ago after I noticed to my utter bewilderment how the black mafia supported PiS.
I strongly protest against it!!!! And waiting for their collapse. Hence I can be called protestant.
Poloniusz 4 | 736
8 Jun 2024 #10
Many did

Wrong as always.

Most prods on Polish territory were German-speakers.

Nowadays they are Nigerians.

As far as Polish nobles they had no religious burdens up until the 18th century. It was these nobles during the 1500s (when the Reformation happened in Germany) who decided to follow protestantism. The majority of Poles living on their lands remained Catholic by choice or due to simple local peer pressure (no different than when someone in a Jewish family (even today) wants to "marry out").

Unsurprisingly, you don't know any of this.
AntV 4 | 623
8 Jun 2024 #11
The Novus Ordo is banal and much more worldly, and far less reverent

I'd say what is banal is the misuse of the Novus Ordo. The liturgical changes that occurred post-Vatican II were not the intention of Vatican II. The document on liturgy even states that the organ is to be the prime instrument, latin should be preserved, and Gregorian chant is best suited for liturgy.
jon357 75 | 22,638
8 Jun 2024 #12
Most Protestants on Polish territory were German-speakers

So in fact you don't know. We are talking about Polish people. Germans were less likely to have to flip flop according to their landowners.

As far as Polish nobles

Magnaty? Some changed affiliation several times during the reformation.

I'd say what is banal is the misuse of the Novus Ordo

This is key. It varies from place to place.
Poloniusz 4 | 736
8 Jun 2024 #13
The liturgical changes that occurred post-Vatican II were not the intention of Vatican II.

But the changes made were intentional and brought about the Hippie Generation of priests taking over parishes and moving up the clerical ranks.

The document on liturgy even states that the organ is to be the prime instrument

It didn't matter. The Boomers were never interested in maintaining traditions but hoped to replace them with their own.




jon357 75 | 22,638
8 Jun 2024 #14
Hippie Generation of priests taking over parishes

Priests don't "take over" parishes. They are sent there by their diocesan Bishop.
Poloniusz 4 | 736
8 Jun 2024 #15
Priests don't "take over" parishes.

Of course they do. To take over means to become responsible for a task in succession to another even if assigned to it by someone else.

But then again you are British so no one would expect you to understand how expressions are used in English.

Anyway, like the infrastructure throughout the Western world which went neglected for decades thanks to the self-absorbed Boomers who were left in charge of things, the traditions in Catholic Churches also went neglected or changed for no other reason than to satisfy Boomer vanity.

We are talking about Polish people.

Yes, overwhelming Roman Catholic followed by Orthodox.

Germans were less likely to have to flip flop according to their landowners.

There you go again. Spinning falsehoods because you don't know what you are talking about, were called out on it, and now you are trying to save face.

Poles were never compelled to become protestants because those who owned the land were.

At best there were enough Polish nobles in the late 1500s in the Sejm who were protestant and they pushed through the Warsaw Confederation which ensured freedom of religion in Poland and Lithuania. It never worked in their favor anyway.
Miloslaw 21 | 4,790
8 Jun 2024 #16
But then again you are British

He is but you are not Polish either.

It never worked in their favor

Your spelling gives you away.
jon357 75 | 22,638
9 Jun 2024 #17
To take over

Take over from. Not take over, little Cherry Pie...

Yes, overwhelming Roman Catholic

Not during the reformation. As mentioned, there was a great deal of flip flopping. On a parish level, the illiterate serfs wouldn't have noticed. On a national level, the horse trading lasted for two generations.

you are not Polish either.

He can't hold a conversation in the language and has never lived in PL or can even afford to visit.

The thread is about church music though, not an incel's Lefebvrist fantasies. He probably doesn't realise how much more traditional the Sunday worship is in PL that he's probably used to. This is in part due to JP2's key role at Vatican 2 when he was the Bishop who most strongly promoted the idea of the local church and partly because of the Iron Curtain being up during the peak period of liturgical experimentation. That and the rural/urban split.

Nevertheless less, radical groups like the NeoKats are very big in PL, especially in the cities.
OP wslipach 8 | 78
9 Jun 2024 #18
Okay, Szlomo

Szlomo? What the fak you bittch? Your vagina is szlomo. I have foreskin longer than your uglyass nose.

However, many young Poles aren't interested in any religion and would rather spend their time and money going on holidays overseas than tithing and jiving in some local church (whatever the denomination is).

Youth is not interested mainly because the church is so gloomy. Studies show that church attendence picks up when mass and church activities are more lively and engageing. How do you engage average youth with prayer wallowing aka precisely what your favourite club serves: synagogue hits like punish me Jewish God, hit me with bad luck and fak me up for the sins of my family. Church music in Poland in many ways resembles the sounds uttered by Jews during their mass, why?
pawian 223 | 24,572
9 Jun 2024 #19
Church music in Poland in many ways resembles the sounds uttered by Jews during their mass, why?

Because we are brothers and sisters in faith?????
OP wslipach 8 | 78
2 days ago #20
Because we are brothers and sisters in faith?????
@ pawian

What is the wallowing about then? Stretchng out the vowels is said to have come from Middle Eastern culture. At least African-Americans don't do that, they are too happy ppl to do that.


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