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Differences between Irish, British, Polish, American and other nations culture, tradition, music - loose talk


sussexguy 1 | 16
26 Aug 2016  #1
moved from:

Hello Sussexgay! No we don't share an Anglo-Saxon culture. I don't think you know what Anglo-Saxon means.

That's funny. Germanic tribes: Celts, Anglos, Jutes and Saxons were the main groups that made up the population, aside from Britons (Mediterranean dudes), that today's Caucasian British descended from. Britons disappeared mixing in with Celts in today's Ireland and others in today's Britain. Scientists have not found any genetic differences between Irish and British, both populations come from the same German stock and remained the same. Culturally they are also the same: both populations speak the same language (Irish, Welsh and Scottish are used only as bits here and there by minority groups and it can said these exist in fantasy land as nobody hears them spoken anywhere really); share the same music (Celtic and British folk music sounds the same, rock and roll came from Britain and Irish were its pioneers along with the British); are emotionally subdued (Irish, Scottish and Welsh are more volatile but fundamentally their reactions and behaviour does not differ from that of the British or English); both follow law and order even if it kills them and if it kills unfortunate others; both united once under Christian Catholic rule (until "unique" English decided they wanted to be cool and different). I could go on and on.
Atch 17 | 2,861
26 Aug 2016  #2
I could go on and on.

On and on embarrassing yourself. Yes.

Scientists have not found any genetic differences between Irish and British, both populations come from the same German stock and remained the same.

theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/28/origins-of-the-irish-down-to-mass-migration-ancient-dna-confirms

By the way British doesn't mean anything in a DNA context, you have to be either English, Welsh or Scottish.

Irish

nobody hears them spoken anywhere really);

Ach bhí mise agus Smurf ag caint as Gaeilge an tseachtain seo caite, ar an 'forum' seo. Cá raibh tusa?? Tá brón orm nach raibh tú ann.

rock and roll came from Britain and Irish were its pioneers along with the British)

As I have a few minutes to spare.........just in case you escape from captivity again and show up here:

What on God's green earth are you talking about? Have you heard of Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bill Haley, Little Richard? Do you know what R&B is? That's the roots of rock and roll. Google them. I know Wikipedia is your BFF but it hasn't served you very well thus far, so show a bit more imagination this time and you might actually learn something.

The Irish were never pioneers of rock and roll. Back then we had what were called showbands who played the ballrooms. The first Irish act of any international significance was Rory Gallagher (RIP, Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam) in the early 1970s.

youtube.com/watch?v=Lxw51M7wAGk

That'll do for now. I'll correct your other howlers another time.
mafketis 20 | 7,249
27 Aug 2016  #3
? Have you heard of Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bill Haley, Little Richard? Do you know what R&B is? That's the roots of rock and roll.

Pretty much all the elements of rock and roll can be found in "race" records* from as early as the 1920s, just not all together on the same recording and/or acoustic rather than electric. (phrases like a'rockin' and a'rollin' can also be found in the 1920s).

By the late 40s American Blacks were making records that sound pretty much exactly like rock and roll which didn't get the name rock and roll until the mid 1950s.

*race records were the first records both performed by and marketed to African Americans and began in the early 1920s, some people claim there was an earlier market but the recordings are presumed lost...
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,665
27 Aug 2016  #4
Rock'n'roll came from Sister Rosetta Tharpe....
youtube.com/watch?v=JeaBNAXfHfQ
mafketis 20 | 7,249
27 Aug 2016  #5
Sister Rosetta Tharpe....

Another fan! She's a huuuuuuuuge favorite of mine. Often called "The godmother of rock 'n roll", it's a shame and a disgrace that she's not in the rock and roll hall of fame.

But she was hardly the first, speed this up a little and electrify it and it's pure rock 'n roll from 1929

youtube.com/watch?v=UuY6NROhCQw

Or this from 1938

youtube.com/watch?v=nTOK-Z7g6Gk
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,665
27 Aug 2016  #6
thanks Maf!
here is another one for you...
youtube.com/watch?v=l9bX5mzdihs

These songs are like the essence of America, for me.
mafketis 20 | 7,249
27 Aug 2016  #7
Well African Americans have one of _the_ great music traditions in the world (or did until rap/hiphop robbed it of its creative juices about 20 years ago).
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,665
27 Aug 2016  #8
I disagree - rap and hip hop is part of that tradition too.
johnny reb 17 | 3,530
27 Aug 2016  #9
the name rock and roll until the mid 1950s.

Thanks to Elvis..................
mafketis 20 | 7,249
27 Aug 2016  #10
rap and hip hop is part of that tradition too.

just not part of the great part (after it descended into gangster and bling nihilism) some rap though about 1993 or so was really creative, now? not so much...

Thanks to Elvis..................

not the first person to record 'hound dog'. who was?

youtube.com/watch?v=yoHDrzw-RPg
Paulina 9 | 1,448
28 Aug 2016  #11
Otherwise in modern western countries among the indigenous population..... not so much.

I was shocked after watching not long ago a documentary about rapes on American campuses/colleges, to be honest:

imdb.com/title/tt4314944

The shocking thing was not only how often it happened but also the attitudes towards rape, the victims and the rapists among the university authorities, the police and male students (like distributing leaflets among other students advising on how to rape a girl and get away with it).

In the light of this it is especially disgusting what male students at Yale University (sic!) were chanting in front of the Women's Center:

"No means yes! Yes means anal!"

ihollaback.org/blog/2011/03/08/leilas-story-no-means-yes-yes-means-anal-we-love-yale-sluts

So those are the future American elites? No wonder someone like Trump has actually a chance to become the next American president...

Btw, I don't know if you heard about this case:

edition.cnn.com/2016/06/06/us/sexual-assault-brock-turner-stanford

Stanford University swimmer got a six-month jail sentence for raping an unconscious woman. What also hit me in that case was his father's defense of his son. He argued that a long sentence would be "a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20 years of life".

It reminded me of what one Soviet officer told the main protagonist of the film "A Woman in Berlin" (based on a memoir by a German woman) when she went to complain about the rapes committed on her and other women by Soviet soldiers. He told her that she's making a big deal out of nothing, or something of this kind, that rape takes only a few minutes - nothing that she and other women can't handle.

likewise

Wow, it must be nice to be a man...

not a fraction of the amount of times a man gets away with rape in the courts

If he even gets there...

"Women need to stop spreading their legs like peanut butter" - that's what one of the raped girls in that documentary heard from a policeman when she went to report the rape:

bust.com/general/10833-women-need-to-stop-spreading-their-legs-like-peanut-butter-says-cop-to-rape-victim.html

I've also watched some time ago a documentary about modern sexism in the UK which was also shocking (how many female students are raped after getting drugged by rape pills) and depressing (the attitudes).

its true that stranger rape is the worst form of it

Why?
Overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by people known by the victim. One of the girls from that documentary was raped by a friend she knew for over a year. She would visit him often and hang out with him at his place and nothing bad happened. But one time he put something into her drink which made her feel dizzy and weak. He raped her for a long time forcing her to face him during the whole night while he was raping her. This changed her completely.

I wonder how one can trust anyone after something like that?

Mafketis, the fact that rape doesn't happen as often in the West as in Africa doesn't mean that rape isn't a problem, is it? Or sexual harassment?

euronews.com/2016/07/29/enforcing-eu-laws-on-sexual-harassment

"one in two women in the EU have been sexually harassed"

I'm sure many rapes aren't being reported. And sexual harassment. And child abuse (which is, I'm 100% sure, the most unreported of these for obvious reasons). How do I know that? Because I'm a woman myself and there are things that I've experienced from men that I've never told about to anyone - not my parents, not my friends or any man and I will most probably take it to my grave. So what happened to me won't be included in any statistics, reports, etc. As I'm sure is the case with many women (and quite a few men, I imagine).

Btw, until I've heard this song I had no idea that Lady Gaga was raped:

youtube.com/watch?v=wvJt6_vU70c

I must say that I had tears in my eyes when I listened to this. Because it's true: "Till it happens to you, you don't know how it feels"

I also didn't know until I watched a documentary about the rape case of an Israeli Miss World that this funny, cheerful actress, Fran Drescher, who played the main protagonist in the TV series "The Nanny" was raped in her own house by an armed robber in front of her tied up husband who was forced to witness the whole thing. It took Drescher many years to recover, and it took her even longer to tell her story to the press.

It made me wonder how many other women experienced rape or some sort of sexual abuse and we don't know because they don't say anything...

So, maf, please, don't speak so lightly about this... You seem like such a nice, intelligent, normal guy... It's pretty depressing when guys like you have such an attitude...
johnny reb 17 | 3,530
28 Aug 2016  #12
what male students at Yale University

someone like Trump has actually a chance to become the next American president...

It was actually Crooked Hillary who attended Yale, not Trump, where she flunked her bar exam to become an attorney.
Speaking of rape however, look how she has raped America as the Secretary of State with her endless failures and criminal activities.
Just what did she do with that 6 BILLION dollars that went missing ?
Szalawa 3 | 248
28 Aug 2016  #13
So those are the future American elites?

It is important to acknowledge that it is by no means a majority of men at University and College campuses that display such behavior. There was no need to bring Trump into this and it is insulting that you would assume that people who back Trump behave in such manners, overwhelming majority do not.

I currently attend University, have done so for several years, and I have never come across such behavior. Tell me Paulina have you been to an American college campus?

the police and male students (like distributing leaflets among other students advising on how to rape a girl and get away with it)

It would seem to be a pervasive myth at best, tell me, do Police really hand out leaflets on how to rape and get away with it? If so how come I never got one?

Paulina I advise you to visit a University campus, you will see things are normal here, students are concerned with studying and keeping up with the workload.

The few that do rape or sexually assault someone should be punished accordingly, this I agree. But the media,I'd say even Liberal media in this case, blows things out of proportion.
OP sussexguy 1 | 16
28 Aug 2016  #14
What on God's earth? Country music! That's the roots of rock and roll..

R&B is the root of rock and roll, that's fantastic, only Jerry Lee Lewis would know shyse about blues and Little Richard the same = zero, blues represents struggle with white man's oppression and racism of African people and we Polish can relate to blues more than Jerry Lee Jewish or commercial product Little Richard can. In any case, it has nothing to do with what I have written, I was referring to rock and roll not its roots, rock and roll in its pure form came from Britain and in Ireland became the top sound with Irish climbing the top of the rock and roll ladder.

I forgot about something, Irish and British (yes, Welsh and Scottish and whatever the rest) eat the same bad food, cook the same bad food, and even hunt for animals for the same reasons (yeah, it's legal for Irish and British to kill animals for sport) and then spoil the hunted meat (if they bother eating it) with their bad Anglo-Celtic cooking (you heard of Anglo-Celts right?).

As for Irish language it is very rare, most Irish do no know a word of it, funny how U2 sing in English, has Bono ever uttered one single Irish word in public? You and Smurf are not the best examples of Irish lingo, not to mention, who is here to check the extent of your knowledge anyway? You know why nobody can check your proficiency? It's because even Irish on PF do not know Irish he he.
Atch 17 | 2,861
28 Aug 2016  #15
It's because even Irish on PF do not know Irish he he.

Where are the other Irish members apart from Smurf and me? If there are any others who are silently observing, let's hear you - táim cinnte go bhfuil cúpla focal agaibh.

You and Smurf are not the best examples of Irish lingo

So now you're also an expert on the Irish language even though you haven't a word of it.

rock and roll in its pure form came from Britain and in Ireland became the top sound with Irish climbing the top of the rock and roll ladder.

Can you really be that much of a dimwit? Rock and roll if you're talking about the 1950s stuff came from America and was copied by the Brits, never by the Irish. (Nowadays sometimes we use the term rock and roll to encompass all modern music). Tell me Sussyguy who exactly were the 1950s rock and roll pioneers from Ireland, name them.

Anglo-Celts

That's an American 'thang'. Means nothing to the Irish.

eat the same bad food

Oh now really? Irish beef, probably the best in the world, ditto Irish lamb, all far superior to Polish produce, due to our rich pasture lands and farming methods.

funny how U2 sing in English,

Why is it funny?? English is our first language. Irish on the other hand is our native language. Plenty of people sing in it, the music of our people that has been handed down through generation after generation,unlike Poland where sadly you'd be hard pressed to find anybody you'd pass in the street who could sing a verse of a Polish folk song. Are there any well known songs about the Polish struggles of yore, or of your past glories, or songs of lost love? Never heard anyone singing them and do you know why? Because they don't know them. The culture in Poland now is MacDonalds, KFC and TK Maxx. What a shame.

Woops! I was forgetting of course you're not Polish. Back to the Kremlin Trolling Academy now, you still have a lot to learn and tell them their textbooks are out of date - just like their military hardware used to be in those wonderful May Day parades.
Lenka 3 | 1,372
28 Aug 2016  #16
I have nothing against you being proud of your Irish culture but you shouldn't belittle other cultures to feel better about your own. That's a weak person tactic.

unlike Poland where sadly you'd be hard pressed to find anybody you'd pass in the street who could sing a verse of a Polish folk song. Are there any well known songs?

So folk song is the only sign of culture? How silly of you... have you ever been to Polish party with drinking singing of Hej Sokoly? Have you ever heard Polish kid saying Kto Ty Jestes poem? Do you know how many ppl know whole passages of Pan Tadeusz or parts of Trylogia?

If you think Polish culture doesn't exist because you didn't meet ppl singing folk songs from memory than you are just one silly goose.
Paulina 9 | 1,448
28 Aug 2016  #17
It was actually Crooked Hillary who attended Yale, not Trump

Generally the Ivy League universities were mentioned, so that includes Trump's university.

You know, I'm not terribly impressed with Clinton either but comparing rape and politics is a bit too much for me considering the subject of real rape is being discussed right now and not some metaphoric one...

It is important to acknowledge that it is by no means a majority of men at University and College campuses that display such behavior.

That's good to know, but how do you know that? Have you ever attended Yale University?
In one of the links I provided it was stated:

"For years now I have been deeply concerned by a yearly ritual verbal assault on women by a fraternity at Yale in my home town of New Haven. Every year the new pledges are gathered in front of the Women's Center and told to chant phrases like, "No means yes, yes means anal", "We love Yale sluts."

So it was going on for years. To be honest, I can't imagine sth like that happening at a Polish university, especially a prestigious one. American male students sound like total retards, judging by this.

There was no need to bring Trump into this

Actually, I did this for a reason because I've remembered this article that I've read quite some time ago:

thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/20/why-hillary-s-going-to-have-a-hard-time-playing-the-woman-card-against-trump.html

Two fragments that I had in mind when I was writing about Trump:

"Trump is more like the average man than some of us thought only with more ego and money to say what he actually thinks, and to date who he actually wants to."

"For starters, as the women defending Trump and denouncing the Times piece prove, there are plenty of women who are not shocked by Trump's treatment of women because he simply sounds like an amplified version of their occasionally obnoxious father, husband, boss, or brother, whom they've learned over the years not to take seriously"

and it is insulting that you would assume that people who back Trump behave in such manners, overwhelming majority do not..

Szalawa, how to put it... Trump has no class and seems to be a bully, he's someone that in Poland could be called a "burak", for example.

I was observing what was going on before the Republican and Democratic nominees were chosen, all this stuff that Trump was saying and how he was saying it. The level was getting lower and lower. Like this, for example:

news.vice.com/article/i-couldve-told-him-mitt-drop-to-your-knees-donald-trump-responds-to-mitt-romney

As for Trump supporters - they seem to like what Trump is saying, how he's saying it, his behaviour, they don't seem to be bothered by his ways and lack of class, so I guess one can make some assumptions about them based on that...

I currently attend University, have done so for several years, and I have never come across such behavior.

Which university do you attend (if you don't mind saying)?

Tell me Paulina have you been to an American college campus?

No, I've never been to the US.

It would seem to be a pervasive myth at best, tell me, do Police really hand out leaflets on how to rape and get away with it?

Not the police lol, but male students.

If so how come I never got one?

Because you've never attended the university where they were distributed?

Paulina I advise you to visit a University campus, you will see things are normal here, students are concerned with studying and keeping up with the workload.

Well, I'm sure male students aren't chasing female students down the alleys around the university campuses and raping them en mass... But I'll be honest - after watching that documentary if I were an American parent I'd be worried to send my daughter to an American university... It's not only about the rapes themselves, but the way the universities were (or maybe still are, I don't know) handling those cases. Apparently those universities rely heavily on founding and money come when there are results and good reputation so the university authorities were hushing such stuff and sweeping them under the carpet, harming the victims in the process and allowing the rapists to get away with rape.

I really recommend watching the documentary when you have the chance.
As for visiting - I doubt I will ever visit the US, let alone some university campus, so I'm afraid I'll have to rely on what I find out from the media (and from you as of now ;)).

Btw, those raped girls from the documentary filed a complaint to the Congress about the situation on campuses/colleges based on the Title IX of the Constitution - I guess that's how history is made and world is made a better place :) Those were some brave young women, I admire them, to be honest...

But the media,I'd say even Liberal media in this case, blows things out of proportion.

What do you mean?

Btw, I remember reading an article that stated that rapes and attitudes towards rape are the worse in those sport-oriented colleges, where one small town is basically like one big campus or whatever...

It also reminded me of what was said in that documentary about modern sexism in the UK and that it's the members of sport teams at universities that are usually the worse as far as attitudes and the treatment fo women is concerned.

What do you think about that?

To be honest, there was something that I didn't understand while watching that documentary - why the girls simply don't go straight to the police instead of all that hassle with universities' authorities that don't have in their best interest to be known as a "rape university"?

theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/09/the-laws-targeting-campus-rape-culture/404824

A fragment:
"if there was a mandatory requirement to report to law enforcement, few survivors would report. And fewer survivors would get the support they need on campus."

I don't understand this attitude... Rape is a serious crime and not some "campus offence". The victims should be encouraged to report it to the police and the rapist should go to jail.

I have nothing against you being proud of your Irish culture but you shouldn't belittle other cultures to feel better about your own. That's a weak person tactic.

Ah, at last... Thank you for that, Lenka :)
Btw, it reminded be of the good times during my Taizé stay in Germany - a metro wagon full of youth from Poland singing "Przybyli ułani pod okienko" - boys singing the Uhlans' part and the girls (including me) singing the women's part. The wagon seemed to be shaking from all the singing and the stomping by the boys ;D The poor German passengers... They were probably frightened a bit by those wild hordes from the East :D But it was so much fun lol Crazy people... :)

Are there any well known songs about the Polish struggles of yore, or of your past glories, or songs of lost love?

I personally love "O mój rozmarynie, rozwijaj się" :)

:)

This one is fun:



Hej, hej ułani!
Malowane dzieci!
Niejedna panienka
Za wami poleci...

;D
Lenka 3 | 1,372
28 Aug 2016  #18
I personally love "O mój rozmarynie, rozwijaj się" :)

I love it too. My older sister called it a ''song about Marysia' when she was little since she didn't know what rozmaryn was. I also like 'u przasniczki' but they are not as popular as Hey Sokoly.

Ah, at last... Thank you for that, Lenka :)

I usually am pretty patient and can't be bothered but enough is enough. No one who truly respects his culture should disrespect others.
mafketis 20 | 7,249
28 Aug 2016  #19
Rape is a horrific crime and I'd be fin favor of capital punishment when it can be proven.

But feminists have pushed a bunch of bullsh1t numbers that are simply not true.

thefederalist.com/2014/12/11/new-doj-data-on-sexual-assaults-college-students-are-actually-less-likely-to-be-victimized

And feminists are also pushing nonsense like "affirmative consent" laws while the only logical conclusion of many of their other arguments is that nothing a woman says (up to and including the words "I consent") or does before, during or after sex indicates that she consented.

The feminist party line is also now that women never say they've been raped when they haven't while in the real world it's quite clear that many women do. For a celebrity example, see Lena Dunham.

I'd say if anything I take rape more seriously than most feminists who keep making up nonsense to further their political aims.
Paulina 9 | 1,448
28 Aug 2016  #20
I also like 'u przasniczki'

Yes, it's very nice and pretty fast lol I remember learning it to play on flute at school. But people don't really sing it.

they are not as popular as Hey Sokoly.

True, it's the classic of classics ;) You can hear it both at wedding parties and sang by tipsy football fans lol

I usually am pretty patient and can't be bothered but enough is enough.

Yeah, I know what you mean, I reached a boiling point with Atch at some point too...

Btw, at family campfires in the countryside we would sing all kind of songs, but my favourite is "Ach, kieleckie, jakie cudne" (probably known only in my region, I imagine):

interklasa.pl/portal/dokumenty/m016/piosenkizkieleckiego.html

Melody (more or less):

youtube.com/watch?v=sijA9ynjhVc

We would sing it at every campfire and during evening walks down the roads outside the village when we were walking by the forests and the meadows and to the river. We would always end the walk at the river to watch the sunset over the forest and then my mum, my aunts, my female cousins and me would sing this song... It was a kind of tradition of ours :) You could especially hear the nostalgia in my aunt's voice who's been living for years in Wrocław now but was born and grew up here...

I also know those "Kare konie, kare" - it cracks me up:

"Kare kónie, kare tylko nie grzywiate,
ładne te kielcanki, tylko niebogate.
Dana da oj dana, dana da oj dana,"

;D

No one who truly respects his culture should disrespect others.

I agree. That's the problem I often had (and still do, I guess) with some of the Western posters here - instead of just attacking the attacker (usually a Pole or a Polish-American) they would attack Poland/Poles/anything Polish or American Polonia in general. I think that's rather childish and counterproductive. Adult people should be able to control themselves better. On the other hand maybe it simply shows what they really think, I don't know...

Rape is a horrific crime and I'd be fin favor of capital punishment when it can be proven.

It would be enough if the victims were treated seriously and the sentences were adequate... I remember watching the reading of the sentence at that monster Ariel Castro trial live on CNN or BBC - I think the judge was giving a seperate sentence for every rape he committed on those women - my God, it was a pleasure to watch...

But feminists have pushed a bunch of bullsh1t numbers that are simply not true.

I always wonder how they make those statistics, tbh, considering that so many rapes go unreported...

A fragment from your link:

"Unfortunately, according to data from the BJS study, a huge percentage of sexual assaults - upwards of 80 percent for female college students - go unreported, and students who are victimized are far less likely to report the crime than are non-student victims"

:/

And feminists are also pushing nonsense like "affirmative consent" laws

I don't know what's that, sorry :)

the only logical conclusion of many of their other arguments is that nothing a woman says (up to and including the words "I consent") or does before, during or after sex indicates that she consented.

Oh, come on, that's nonsense, where did you get that? lol

The feminist party line is also now that women never say they've been raped when they haven't while in the real world it's quite clear that many women do.

What do you mean by "many"? In that documentary about rapes at college campuses it was said that the percentage of false rape reports is the same as in the case of other falsely reported crimes. So which feminists claim that there are no false rape claims at all?

Lena Dunham

I've read the bit on Wikipedia about it - she didn't report a rape to the police or anything. She just described a sexual assault in her book and it seems the problem was more the case of mistaken identity?

I'd say if anything I take rape more seriously than most feminists who keep making up nonsense to further their political aims.

Well, I can't say I know "most feminists" to able to make such claims :)
mafketis 20 | 7,249
28 Aug 2016  #21
t the percentage of false rape reports is the same as in the case of other falsely reported crimes

In this study 41 % of allegations were fabricated.

he just described a sexual assault in her book

You mean Dunham sexually assaulting her sister?

that's nonsense, where did you get that? lol

reading a bunch of feminist sites, where every possible counter-indication of 'rape' occurring (including consentual encounters before and after the 'rape' and agrressive sexual pursuit of the 'rapist' after the fact) are waved away as irrelevant.

then there's always this insanity, you're welcome (piv is a reference to traditional heterosexual intercourse)

witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok
Atch 17 | 2,861
28 Aug 2016  #22
No one who truly respects his culture should disrespect others.

Tell that to Sussexguy.

My comments weren't in any way directed at Polish people but at an ignorant troll who claims that Irish cutlure is identical to English, which it most certainly is not.

I reached a boiling point with Atch at some point too...

The point was about WWI. Here was my final post on that. Don't know if you read it:
https://polishforums.com/history/poland-wwi-78374/2/#msg1558601

Unlike you I am gracious enough to put that behind me:

As a Polish woman she's the best person to advise you and you won't do better on this forum.

If you think Polish culture doesn't exist because you didn't meet ppl singing folk songs from memory than you are just one silly goose.

Polish culture exists of course but what do you mean by culture? If you're talking about folk culture then it is not a living tradition for Poles in the way that the ancient customs, music, dances, sports etc of Ireland have surived not only in obscure rural communities but in every town and village in every part of the country. Now in Poland certain very beautiful and colourful traditions survive in some parts of the country but it is not as pervasive as it is throughout society in Ireland and that's just a fact.

The thousands of songs and tunes which the Irish have in our culture are part of the Bardic tradition which doesn't exist in Poland. We have a tradition of expressing ourselves through music and song which is why there is such a vast catalogue of songs. Every person and every event of significance in our history is commemorated in song and music and even in dance with sets like the Walls of Limerick and the Siege of Ennis. So yes, you may have sung a few light hearted ditties around the campfire but that's not quite the same thing.

Many other Polish traditions and customs have their roots in Catholicism and as the Church diminishes in importance in people's lives so those customs are in danger of disappearing or becoming a mere tourist attraction.

It's certainly not true to say that the culture of Poland is exclusively MacDonalds and KFC but it's heading that way. Poles are very much enamoured of all things American. Even look at the way the Bazars are being demolished left, right and centre and replaced by steel and plate glass shopping centres.
Szalawa 3 | 248
28 Aug 2016  #23
but how do you know that?

Well at least it's the case at the campus I attend.

Trump has no class and seems to be a bully

Hillary Clinton would be better suited to bring up since she actually was involved with trying to cover up her husbands rapes and sexual assaults.

hushing such stuff and sweeping them under the carpet, harming the victims in the process and allowing the rapists to get away with rape.

and College/University campuses are vastly filled with liberal students

No means yes, yes means anal", "We love Yale sluts

It seems more like trolling to be honest. On a university campus you will find "no means no" posters around, it just seems like "they" think I am an idiot, "they" being whoever is placing those things everywhere.

members of sport teams at universities that are usually the worse as far as attitudes and the treatment fo women is concerned.

Probably
Lenka 3 | 1,372
28 Aug 2016  #24
My comments weren't in any way directed at Polish people but at an ignorant troll

And yet in your post you attacked Polish culture:

The culture in Poland now is MacDonalds, KFC and TK Maxx. What a shame

If you're talking about folk culture then it is not a living tradition for Poles in the way that the ancient customs etc of Ireland have surived in every part of the country.

And yet earlier you posted that Poles don't know any such songs (even one verse was your opinion I believe) and don't sing it at all. Now you change your tune to 'not as alive'

It's certainly not true to say that the culture of Poland is exclusively MacDonalds and KFC but it's heading that way.

And Irish is not?
Plus you focus on one or two things and if they don't exist in their 'true form' you deem them dead. Culture is also food (were in Poland traditional foods are still eaten on regular basis even abroad) in patterns (plenty of folk patterns still appear in modern designs) and so on. Your claim that because we don't have (or remember) as many songs as Irish our culture is dying is silly. Folk culture is not the only culture. We have centuries of music, literature, legends and language to talk about, both from folk culture as well as the one created in towns so focusing on folk songs is, again, silly.

And we still create our culture. Culture is not some dead object that you have or not. It's alive and evolving (including also foreign influences) and created again and again by each generation. I would rather say that the culture that doesn't change and is not given new 'food' is a dead one.
Paulina 9 | 1,448
28 Aug 2016  #25
In this study 41 % of allegations were fabricated.

Could you quote the part where it says so?

You mean Dunham sexually assaulting her sister?

No, I mean this:

"In the book, Dunham writes about being sexually assaulted by an Oberlin College classmate, which resulted in controversy over the accuracy of her account and a case of mistaken identity when a former Oberlin College student named Barry (...) sought legal advice to ensure people didn't associate him with the content."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Dunham#Related_controversies

(including consentual encounters before and after the 'rape'

Ah, but that's not so simple, you see... Joan Collins, for example, married the man who raped her when she was 17 (he took her virginity as far as I remember), for example. It's common practice in Africa...

There's also marital rape.
I remember reading a thread on some Polish site for women made by a woman who was raped by her husband anally and was asking whether this was rape because she didn't want anal sex, she thought it's going to be normal sex from behind but her husband lay down on her when she was on her belly and took her anally, pressed her down, held her hands and kept going despite the fact that she was saying "no" and cried and was asking him to stop (she was in great pain obviously)...

And what do you do in such a case?

There can be issues with... communication too, btw. I remember reading an article about a thread that was made by someone on reddit - the author of the thread asked rapists to tell their stories and why they raped. This thread was such a rare opportunity to get into rapists minds and hear their versions of what happened that it was even analysed by serious scientific researches. One of the things that the author of the article noticed in part of those accounts was that men were so much "into the action" that they wouldn't even bother to look in the women's faces to check whether everything's OK and whether the women like what they're doing or not or whether they even want sex or not. No eye contact or anything. There was this story of a guy, for example, who, as he thought, had sex with his girlfriend only to find her later on crying in another room.

Some women may have problems with saying "no" when they don't want to have sex, especially the young ones. I remember reading an article in "Gazeta Wyborcza" on some different topic - it was a long interview with a psychologist and sexuologist on sexual issues. A young couple came to him because they had a problem with their sex life. The girl didn't want to have sex with the boy despite early on they had sex and there were no problems. He asked the couple whether something unusual or bad happened. They said that no, nothing. So he asked when the girl started to dislike having sex with her boyfriend. They remembered that it was after a music festival they both attended. So he asked whether something happened at that festival. They said that no, not really. It turned out at last that when the boyfriend and the girlfriend went to the toilet there were some guys over there and they started touching the girl. She didn't like it but the boyfriend liked it and told her not to resist. All of the guys, including the boyfriend had sex with her. The sexuologist told the interviewer: "Do you understand? She was raped and she didn't even realise it..."

I think young people especially should be educated about such issues and not only that they should use condoms, etc. You know, the psychological aspect of sex, about consent, etc. Girls should be taught that they don't always have to agree to everything if they don't want it, don't like it, etc. And boys should be taught that they should accept it and respect their will and that real life is no internet porn.

then there's always this insanity, you're welcome (piv is a reference to traditional heterosexual intercourse)

O____O

Well, thank you, I guess you learn something all your life lol
I must admit I couldn't get through the whole thing... This really takes the biscuit though:
"The vagina's primary function isn't to be penetrated by a penis but to eject a baby for birth. (...) Penetration of the penis into the vagina is completely unnecessary for conception." :D

Btw, I once read a "feminist" interpretation of a fragment in "The Lord of the Rings" by Tolkien. Some feminist critic wrote that the tunel where the giant spider Shelob lived symbolises Tolkien's fear of vagina ;D When I read that I was like: O___O'

:D

I guess there are loonies in every movement. At the other side of the scale are the masculinists, or red pillers or whatever they call themselves. I read their theories about women with wide open eyes too ;D I mean men like that Roosh V guy and his followers on his blog and forum - it's like reading comments of some Taliban men living in a God forsaken village in Afghanistan... You know - giving women voting rights was a mistake, giving them education was a mistake, women should live with their parents until they marry, etc. I hope such men won't come to power ever again in our part of the world - that would be scary... I'm not kidding...

There are also, as it turns out, such cases:

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11633305/University-union-officer-who-wrote-kill-all-white-men-tweet-will-remain-in-post.html

And there's this:

telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11618108/Goldsmiths-University-diversity-officer-row-This-is-not-hate-speech.html

"Put simply: men cannot experience sexism and white people cannot experience racism. And as an ethnic minority woman she can be accused of neither."

Of course, I don't agree with this.
I have an impression that this is some kind of Western sickness - the conviction that only certain groups can experience prejudice and discrimination and the rest is off limits.

It's like some people in the West can't think in a logical way anymore and lost their empathy at some point, I don't know...

Unlike you I am gracious enough to put that behind me:

I know, Atch, I know, you're just better than everyone else ;D And the Irish/British people are better than Poles and Irish/British cakes are better than Polish ones, etc. etc. :))

Oh, and "Polish members here, be they men or women, they have that heavy footed, brusque way, like a bull in a china shop", except for Ziemowit, of course, who has that "rather charming side which clearly indicates that" he "must have Irish blood somewhere :))"

You're such a lovely and gracious girl, Atch :)
As for putting whatever behind then I did my best not to comment on your posts on that "Polish guy and courting? Confusion." thread despite the fact that I didn't like that much the way you treated Myself.

Don't know if you read it:

No, I haven't yet. I decided after my last post to gather some information, articles that I found to be interesting and photos for that thread and make some translations but it turned out to be pretty time consuming and I had to put it away for some time. Hopefully I'll get back to that and to that discussion in September maybe (if I won't forget ;/).

So yes, you may have sung a few light hearted ditties around the campfire but that's not quite the same thing.

But nobody claims it's the same thing. I simply pointed out that yes, there are well known Polish folk/traditional songs, songs of past struggle and lost love or whatever. The fact that you haven't heard anyone singing them doesn't mean that people don't sing them. Or that they don't know them as you claim.

You wrote "The culture in Poland now is MacDonalds, KFC and TK Maxx" which is simply not true. No matter whether it's "heading this way" in your opinion or not.

Well at least it's the case at the campus I attend.

Have you ever talked with female students at your campus about such stuff?

Hillary Clinton would be better suited to bring up since she actually was involved with trying to cover up her husbands rapes and sexual assaults.

Now wait a minute... I know that he cheated on her but "rapes and sexual assaults"? That's the first I hear of this. Any links?

and College/University campuses are vastly filled with liberal students

Oh come on... :D And conservative youth doesn't go to universities? :) What difference does it make anyway...? o_O Rape is a rape, no matter whether it was done by someone with liberal or conservative views.

It seems more like trolling to be honest.

You know, such "trolling" sounds disgusting and scary for a woman. Especially that rapes do happen at colleges/campuses. So it's not a joking matter...

it just seems like "they" think I am an idiot, "they" being whoever is placing those things everywhere.

Well, what if some boys/men are idiots and they have to be clearly reminded of the fact that "no means no"?
Or do you think such posters simply don't work or are counterproductive somehow?
Atch 17 | 2,861
28 Aug 2016  #26
Now you change your tune to 'not as alive'

My tune is the same. I'm saying it's not a living tradition and it isn't. That's a fact.

Havent' time for anything else now but I'll get back to you. Cheers!
Lenka 3 | 1,372
28 Aug 2016  #27
I'm saying it's not a living tradition and it isn't. That's a fact.

What you actually said was:

Poland where sadly you'd be hard pressed to find anybody you'd pass in the street who could sing a verse of a Polish folk song.

And:

Never heard anyone singing them and do you know why? Because they don't know them.

And you have a living proof in me nad Paulina that we do know them and also sang them. If anything else that comment shows your ignorance of Poland as Hej Sokoly is basically a must on Polish big parties. But you say you never heard them being performed.
johnny reb 17 | 3,530
28 Aug 2016  #28
Pretty much all the elements of rock and roll can be found in "race" records* from as early as the 1920s,

Spot on mafketis as that is the correct answer.

rock and roll in its pure form came from Britain and in Ireland

"Pure Form" compared to what ? lol

Rock and roll if you're talking about the 1950s stuff came from America and was copied by the Brits,

Spot on Atch as that is a correct answer too.
​Now now kids, let old Dad tell ya straight from living in the 1950's when Elvis started "rock & roll" in the U.S.A. as I remember it happening first hand, not from google or Wiki.

First Elvis was born in Mississippi (a southern State) which had a lot of "Juke Joints" (Google yourself) that where Black run establishments for poor Blacks with gabling, dancing, drinking, blues and soul music.(1920's and 30's)

My personal favorite music may I add. (Google and listen)
Then in his teens Elvis grew up in Memphis Tennessee where there was "Hillbilly" music from the people who lived in the hills of Tennessee and Appalachian Mountains in the U.S.A.

Elvis took these two kinds of music and intertwined them into an upbeat mix which was known as rock & roll.
Mixing the Black and White music made him disliked by many who said that his 'rock and roll' would never last and that it was just a short lived fad.

In fact many wanted Elvis's music outlawed at the time here in America.
That was back in 1953 if I remember right and all of us kids knew the words to "You ain't nothin' but a hound dog, cry all the time."

So if anyone can show me a rock and roll group before 1953 please post them.

Elvis was not the first person to record 'hound dog'. who was?

That would have been Willie Mae (Big Mama) Thornton if my memory serves me right.

Class dismissed.
TheOther 5 | 3,761
28 Aug 2016  #29
So if anyone can show me a rock and roll group before 1953 please post them.

"Rocket '88" by Jackie Brenston and Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm was released in January 1951 and is widely considered the first Rock and Roll record.
johnny reb 17 | 3,530
28 Aug 2016  #30
there are plenty of women who are not shocked by Trump's treatment of women

But do you EVER hear the media talk about Clinton's treatment of women ?????

Hillary Clinton would be better suited to bring up since she actually was involved with trying to cover up her husbands rapes and sexual assaults.

Now wait a minute... I know that he cheated on her but "rapes and sexual assaults"? That's the first I hear of this. Any links?

Oh Paulina (gasp, gasp) thank you for asking that as Crooked Hillary has defended her sick f-cking husband out of control sexual abuse for years.

Here, you can start here with Bill Clinton's long list of sex assaults and rapes.
albertpeia.com/oxfordassault.htm

And when you get done reading Bill Clinton's long long sheet of incidences google, "Lolita Express" where Bill Clinton has 28 recorded flights to an island off the British Virgin Islands, owned by a convicted pedophile, where Bill met with his buddy (that is now in prison for pedophilia) that housed under aged girls (14 & 15) for sex slaves.

On those fight the 16 year old was not the scotch.
And Crooked Hillary stood behind Bill claiming it was the young girls fault by making derogatory remarks about these women.
YES, BILL CLINTON SUFFERS FROM A SEXUAL DISORDER BUT..............can you blame him.
I mean can anyone here IMAGINE waking up next to Crooked Hillary in the morning ! YOWIE !

"Rocket '88"

Rocket 88 is actually rhythm & blues though.

"Rocket '88" by Jackie Brenston and Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm was released in January 1951

And "Move It on Over" by Hank Williams was released in 1948 and is widely considered the first Rock and Roll record.
We are talking the "REAL" rock & roll here however.
"Rocket 88" is rhythm & blues and "Move it on Over" is actually country.
Elvis took "Hound Dog" and put a rock & roll twang to it in 1953 so I go with Elvis being 'the King of Rock & Roll' in which he is referred to.


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