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Is Polish church involved in politics too much?


pawian 176 | 14,299
21 Jun 2020 #1
Some people accuse the RC Church in Poland of being engaged in politics more that it should. The clergy are said to support and favour rightwing politicians, especially the ones who rule Poland nowadays. Critics point to dozens of cases of such support openly declared by local priests or bishops, during masses and on other occasions. That can be easily found on the net.

The latest example which raised doubts or even annoyance is today`s appearance and speech by one of government ministers at the end of mass service at Jasna Góra, broadcast nationally.

wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/wybory-prezydenckie-2020-jadwiga-emilewicz-przemawia-na-jasnej-gorze-komentarze/ywxqe4s

Do you consider it a problem or not? Is the involvement too big or not? Is it going to affect the position of the Church? How? Will it influence the number of believers in any way? How? What should be done with it: leave it like that or fight it?



Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
21 Jun 2020 #2
There is an interesiting article by Terlikowski in today's Rzeczpospolita in which he says the Polish bishops are leading the RCC in Poland to a suicide (as he puts it). And Terlikowski is very very very far from being an atheist, a Liberal or a Leftist.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
21 Jun 2020 #3
Some people accuse the RC Church i

Same people are talking smack or spew nonsense. Nothing new, as they say nihil novi sub sole.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
21 Jun 2020 #4
Terlikowski

Terlikowski has been more and more outspoken about the path that the church is taking, and I think he's right. It's very clear that the church will lose any sort of moral authority if they become nothing more than the religious wing of PiS, just as Solidarność lost all credibility as they turned a blind eye to widespread labour abuses in state-owned companies and other institutions.

I can conceivably see a situation in a few years where the only people attending church services and sending kids to religion classes are those that support PiS. Not a good situation, as it leads directly to what happened in Spain and Ireland.
Lenka 3 | 2,569
21 Jun 2020 #5
I said many times that church is shooting itself in the foot. Political is dirty. Getting involved with it puts church in a bad position. Especially if they are endorsing those in power .
Lazarus 1 | 115
21 Jun 2020 #6
church is shooting itself in the foo

As a great man once said, "Evil carries the seeds of its own destruction."
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
21 Jun 2020 #7
There is an interesiting article by Terlikowski in today's Rzeczpospolita

Yes, I have been reading this Catholic journalist`s articles about the Church and the ones in which he warns the bishops are quite numerous.

Same people are talking smack or spew nonsense. Nothing new, as they say nihil novi sub sole.

Not only, Sir. The warnings are issued both by laypeople but also those Catholic activists like Terlikowski and even priests themselves. Check out those articles about priests who are critical of Church`s policy.

natemat.pl/165687,ksiadz-pisze-list-do-nuncjusza-w-ktorym-krytykuje-upolitycznienie-kosciola-sa-bledy-ktorych-nie-da-sie-ukryc

plus.dziennikpolski24.pl/ksiadz-wieslaw-przyczyna-trzeba-bic-na-alarm/ar/c1-14419339

Not a good situation, as it leads directly to what happened in Spain and Ireland.

Why not?
Ironside 50 | 10,939
22 Jun 2020 #8
the religious wing of PiS,

the same people would sing prices IF those bishops would endorse and support THEM. Why listen to hypocrites. All those issue is just a mindless yapping anyway, before the election. Not that any serious argument or an assessment has been made of the issues. Even that topic is inaccurate and misleading - is not the church but that or other bishop and some random priest. They have more autonomy now. So what?

After all they are also Polish citizen and should be able express their opinion freely. I don't see that talk in the name of the Church or claim it as a dogma. Most of those issue came about bevosue people are so damn stupid, partisan' and pretty ignorant. On the other hand lefties they know F all about the church and siphon on myths and prejudice and lies about the church as they are that kind of sh'ty people.

Terlikowski

Is talking from completely different perspective and his outlook is nothing you think it is. You read it wrong.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
22 Jun 2020 #9
Do you consider it a problem or not?

It seems the Church leaders have recognised the problem. The Episcopate`s spokesman admitted the Minister`s speech (in front of Black Madonna) was improper.

rmf24.pl/raporty/raport-wybory-prezydenckie2020/najnowsze-fakty/news-wystapienie-emilewicz-na-jasnej-gorze-rzecznik-kep-ambona-ni,nId,4567049
Crow 146 | 9,122
23 Jun 2020 #10
RC Church in Poland of being engaged in politics more that it should.

The church as an element of spiritual life in a state has its place in politics. It's not a problem. But you should underline its local, not global.

I mean, you say RC Church. Why not PC (Polish Catholic) Church? Rome is here a symbol of oppression and subjugation. Why giving it a reclama? Why not force sovereignty?

I can`t imagine we Serbs say Constantinople Orthodox Church in Serbia. It then wouldn't be Serbian but something foreign. Even in its name. And I am interested in the spirit of Serbs and Slavs, of my ancestors, not in the spirit of Constantinople and foreign ancestors, something global. My God is MY thing. Why would MY God be global God?
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
23 Jun 2020 #11
I haven't got a problem with it, they have as much right to interfere in politics us say the business lobby or trade unions and they are obviously going to support people that have similar views.

What I do object to is them receiving public money as a quid pro quo of the support.
Crow 146 | 9,122
23 Jun 2020 #12
He, he its famous how Catholic priests taking money. When I visit some Catholic Church on call by friends, for wedding or some other happy or sad event, I usualy see some man who colects money from person to person. And I always give. What else. They have no shame and my friends apologuze for that, but I of course don't blame them..

See, but Church took the money. Its wisdom maybe. Give money now, complain later.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
23 Jun 2020 #13
they are obviously going to support people that have similar views.

I see. So, they also should be prepared that people who dislike such support will turn away from the Church first and then from God and faith.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
23 Jun 2020 #14
Yes, they should be prepared for that. I go to church but less and less and when I am there I rarely her anything about empathy, love, respect etc.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
23 Jun 2020 #15
I go to church but less and less

It is a simple process - a Catholic believer doesn`t like PiS for political or ideological reasons. PiS is openly supported by some priests. Then these priests are associated with disliked PiS. In result, the dislike towards PiS is transfered onto the Church represented by individual priests.

Is it a correct reasoning?
Crow 146 | 9,122
23 Jun 2020 #16
We Slavs need to have one Slavic Christian Church, with local autonomous Churches in every Slavic country and all Slavs need to celebrate SLAVA within their local Christianity. Christ and SLAVA should be our uniting factor and it really shouldn't be important are local Churches Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant or whatever oriented. It would still be much fewer differences in comparison to differences among Slavs in pre-Christian times. To centers like Rome, Constantinople, or London, we Slavs have to say one great THANKS BUT NO THANKS. Every Slavic Capital city should be the religious center of the Slavic Christian Church. Survivor and prosperity of Slavs is holly thing. Then comes the love for others and solidarity as much as we can, without feeling shame what we are and without reducing ourselves.

I repeat, survivor and prosperity of Slavs is holly thing.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
22 Jul 2020 #17
Certain priest notified his parishioners that those 61% who had voted for Trzaskowski in the second round had chosen the path od death, misery and curse hahaha

onet.pl/informacje/onetpoznan/koscian-proboszcz-przestrzega-parafian-ktorzy-zaglosowali-na-trzaskowskiego/hqtmgr3,79cfc278



Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
22 Jul 2020 #18
@pawian
Isn't he Right tho? Doesn't Trzaskowski support those things?
Crow 146 | 9,122
22 Jul 2020 #19
Polish Catholic Church is ok. Just should dustant itself from the Vatican like from the leprosy dog.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
22 Jul 2020 #20
@Crow
What you got against the vatican? I thought Jesus Christ was for all humanity, not just slavs

Or do you think you know more about religion then scholars?
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
22 Jul 2020 #21
Not really coz the priest also mentioned euthanasia and I don`t think Trzask supports it.

The priest got carried away too much. Unfortunately, he forgot wise words from the Gospel :

Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Crow 146 | 9,122
22 Jul 2020 #22
@Mr Grunwald

I will answer later. Post from phone right now. It demand longer answer.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
22 Jul 2020 #23
@pawian
What about what they bind on earth etc? Or is that only for the first disciples?
If he was wrong about euthanasia it's a grave mistake indeed
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
22 Jul 2020 #24
What about what they bind on earth etc? Or is that only for the first disciples?

In this way, we would have to excuse all horrible deeds committed in the name of God in the past. E..g, Inquisition.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
23 Jul 2020 #25
@pawian
It wasn't only for political reasons that the kingdom of Poland opposed the teutonic order in the year 1410. Religious as well.

As far as I know cases of inquisition in Poland were to a minimum amount (I would say zero, as I haven't heard of such cases in Poland in the past) some few witch burnings either at the hands of uneducated masses or a sick saxonian king.

As a whole Catholic Church we had a lot to ask for forgiveness for. We as Poles need to take responsibility for the actions of our ancestors, not that of foreigners.

I have contemplated the situation with my grandfather and it is indeed sad that the quality of priests have sunk in Poland.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
23 Jul 2020 #26
that the quality of priests have sunk in Poland.

priests reflect a state of the society.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
23 Jul 2020 #27
@Ironside
Just as the form of government sadly
Thankfully, Poland hasn't turned in to a dictatorship yet
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
23 Jul 2020 #28
Hey, did you hear that the first church marriage of Jacek Kurski, PiS TV chairman, was annuled after 24 years!!! Monika, his first wife, and Jacek had divorced in 2015, they have 3 kids.

A few days ago Jacek Kurski got married for the second time. Again, a religious ceremony. hahahaha Isn`t it fascinating?

Thank you, dear Church, for supporting Polish families so much! Pity they are mostly politicians` families. However, if one offers a good donation, his/her marriage can also be annuled, so ordinary people also have a chance, it only depends of the content of the wallet.


  • Kurski with first wife and son in 2008

  • Kurski`s second church wedding
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
23 Jul 2020 #29
was annuled after 24 years!!!

I promise I will never leave you, until the annulment of our marriage. hahaha



OP pawian 176 | 14,299
23 Jul 2020 #30
PiS Chairman Kaczyński also came and gave the newlyweds an expensive present. Thank you, PiS. hahaha





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