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Is Polish church involved in politics too much?


Ironside 51 | 11,338
23 Jul 2020 #31
hear that the first church marriage of Jacek Kurski,

what it has to do with the subject of the thread? Not much.
cms neuf - | 2,072
24 Jul 2020 #32
A lot - the church has made an exception to an important rule (to them). At the same time many ordinary Poles were not given similar preferential treatment,

After the ceremony the happy couple made a romantic trip with JK to Lech"s grave to put some flowers.
Zlatko
24 Jul 2020 #33
Yuck go to a grave on your wedding day. How can one be that much politically inclined? Were there friends at least with the president? If not it sounds like what a commie official in North Korea would do! They could've visited Mickiewicz' or Kopernik's instead.
cms neuf - | 2,072
24 Jul 2020 #34
Well JK is a creepy guy - you can see a photo of him dressed in gloomy black tie for a wedding holding a massive bunch of red and white roses.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
24 Jul 2020 #35
similar preferential treatment,

it is an assumption - for starters, Even IF that what it is - how is that means involving in politicks? Yeah - define involved in this context.
mafketis 34 | 12,243
24 Jul 2020 #36
how is that means involving in politicks?

Annulment is only supposed to be granted in very specific cases, none of which seem to really apply here.... and given his political profile it's natural to assume that had some influence.... also in his new wife's case....

In some western countries annulment has simply become a type of catholic divorce (and income stream for the church). I guess it's normal that Poland start down that path...
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
24 Jul 2020 #37
Poles have always copied Western ways and it is unstoppable, also in other spheres of life.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,070
24 Jul 2020 #38
always copied Western ways and it is unstoppable

But they are learning from western failure/failings and not making some of the fatal mistakes that you see in the west.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
24 Jul 2020 #39
No, it is only going to take longer, e.g., 20 instead of 10-15 years but the result will be the same - Poland will not differ from the West sooner or later. And nothing and nobody can stop or change it.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
24 Jul 2020 #40
JK is creepy - you can see a photo of him dressed in gloomy black tie for a wedding holding a massive bunch roses.

Yes, the photo was bad coz taken by surprise as he wasn`t prepared.

But other photos with newlyweds show a positive side of him.

All in all, we should thank PiS they are not such fanatics after all.



Ironside 51 | 11,338
25 Jul 2020 #41
none of which seem to really apply here..

WE just don't know that.

hat had some influence..

Ok, lets assume that such an influence played a part in annulment, It sill doesn't indicate the way in which the church involve in politics (let alone too much).

It the same with courts and judges there is always a suspicion lurking in the shadows that somebody's position in a society influenced the outcome.

It may well be the case. WE don't know that!
Although we can say with a large dose of probability that that case has nothing to do with the thread's topic.
Crow 157 | 10,875
25 Jul 2020 #42
If we speak of Polish Catholic Church, we have to agree that isnt involved in politics enough, in comparision to, for example Vatican or Catholic Church in Croatia and some other regions. Why this have to be said? Simple. Catholicism would have more human face if Polish Catholic Church is more involved.

But nobody in Catholic world ask Poles anything. Vatican have more projects with Germany and with German satelites like banderists and ustashe, proven Nazis, then with Poland. Actually, even work against Poland. Why ask Poland anything? Why, realy, when Poland acepted pasive and servitude role. Just better kick Poland and contonue with projects.

All to satisfy greed.
call1n 2 | 138
25 Jul 2020 #43
I know a former catholic priest who thought not enough was done to protest Vietnam war. He laughed when asked how priest decide what to say every Sunday. It is much more loosely structured than people think. There is no real policeman for clergy.
Poloniusz 4 | 418
25 Jul 2020 #44
There are posts which can be found on PolishForums cheering the decline in church attendance particularly among the young. So any position held by the church doesn't have much of an audience to influence.

The only ones with too much biased involvement in politics is leftwing dominated mainstream media and social media platforms.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
25 Jul 2020 #45
cheering the decline in church attendance particularly among the young.

The decline is partly due to the unavoidable Westernisation of Poland and partly due to various vices of the Church, one of them taking political sides.

So any position held by the church doesn't have much of an audience to influence.

Of course not. Nearly 50% people still go to the mass on regular basis, reaching 80% on important holidays.

is leftwing dominated mainstream media and social media platforms.

Does it mean rightwing media aren`t biased??? :):)
Ironside 51 | 11,338
25 Jul 2020 #46
unavoidable Westernisation of Poland

what that even mean? By the way - Quality over quantity is OK!

cheering the decline in church attendance particularly among the young.

Soviets both local and foreign. Nothing Polish about it.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
25 Jul 2020 #47
what that even mean?

If you were from Kabul, Afghanistan, I would strive to explain it to you coz you wouldn`t be aware. But as you are an ex-Pole, currently a United Kingdom citizen, you should perfectly know what Westernisation of Poland means. That is why I won`t bother with explanations. Ask your British wife! Ha!
mafketis 34 | 12,243
25 Jul 2020 #48
Soviets both local and foreign. Nothing Polish about it.

See? Without you Poland is lost and sure to become less and less Polish by the day! Wróć!
Ironside 51 | 11,338
25 Jul 2020 #49
you should perfectly know what Westernisation of Poland means

hmm it is a term used by the soviets to diss Poland and Poles.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
25 Jul 2020 #50
Wróć!

Maf, why are you so cruel? Do you really hate Poland so much?? I didn`t know you then......
mafketis 34 | 12,243
25 Jul 2020 #51
why are you so cruel? Do you really hate Poland so much?

Relax, you couldn't pay him to return to Poland... he only wants to complain about how it's not less like the country he actually chooses to live in....

We need a term for those who think of the country in fantasy terms... imaginary Poles?
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
26 Jul 2020 #52
. imaginary Poles?

Delusional would be more accurate. Delusional and vindictive.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
26 Jul 2020 #53
See?

What exactly is your problem? eh?

Delusional and vindictive.

lol! \to give Soviets their comeuppance is a duty of any decent human being.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
26 Jul 2020 #54
Yes, the Catholic journalist has just published another text about Kurski`s marriage annulment. He predicts the Church will pay for it. He claims the new wedding, which got the green light from Krakow bishops and was attended by top PiS politicians, has damaged traditional Polish family more than a few years of leftist propaganda about LGBT etc.

He added: joke, hypocrisy and disgrace. This is another brick in the wall. The process of secularisation of Poland has just received a huge stimulus. Young people are already turning away from the faith in droves.

polskatimes.pl/tomasz-terlikowski-za-wzmocnienie-ukladu-oltarza-i-tronu-zaplaci-przede-wszystkim-kosciol-ale-takze-rzadzaca-prawica/ar/c15-15094761
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
26 Jul 2020 #55
He predicts the Church will pay for it.

Terlikowski has been pointing out for a while that the current actions of the Church can only lead to ruin. He mentions it again in this article that this is the path that the Church went down in other countries, and that it resulted in disaster there as well. If you read the article, he also makes it clear that he regards the institution of marriage to be sacrosanct and that couples should find a way to preserve it, even if it's very difficult.

What I find interesting is the amount of disgust coming from hard right Catholic circles towards Kurski. There are comments that he's slapping a lot of Catholics in the face with his behaviour, especially those that have tried (and failed) to get an annulment without the traditional contribution to the Cathedral's roof fund.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
2 Aug 2020 #56
I promise I will never leave you, until the annulment of our marriage. hahaha

onet.pl/informacje/onetwiadomosci/i-ze-cie-nie-opuszcze-az-sad-koscielny-nas-nie-rozlaczy/5vvdfw1,79cfc278

I still read articles by left and centre commentators about Kurski`s annulment of former marriage. Average priests are outraged and expect the avalanche of demands from people who desire to annul their church marriage. The way has been paved by Jacek Kurski, politician, Archbishop Głódź who issued the annulment decision and Archbishop Jędraszewski who agreed to a wedding ceremony in an important church. They are called the Unholy Trinity.

Głódź annuled the marriage on the grounds Kurski was not able to assume the essential obligations of marriage for psychic causes. So, it probably means that when he was making his 3 kids with his previous wife, he didn`t know what he was doing!! That is why he should be forgiven.

That`s how the Church and the right cooperate on behalf of Polish family. Thank you, all.

PS. It is Sunday - We are going to the mass service soon - whole family.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
26 Oct 2020 #57
As I mentioned in another thread, certain psychological barrier was crossed yesterday. After the PiS ruling about tightening the abortion law, angry protesters attacked churches and priests. The buildings were covered with anti-religious grafitti and posters, mass services were disrupted, priests were insulted, the police had to protect facilities.

Have you ever heard of such things before? We can see a new kind of attitude - militant and openly hostile to Church and faith. It seems rightists have just unleashed the ideological war and people are ready to join in and wage it. Who is going to win it?

Comments on photos showing the disruptions of mass services - Poland is waking up. Did the rightists really want that??????







Crow 157 | 10,875
26 Oct 2020 #58
Polish Catholic Church never criticized Vatican for too clise ties between Vatican and Germanics. Never. That make them trraitors of Poles and Poland. And what we Serbs can expect then. Where are we on the list of priorities of Polish Catholic Church. Nowhere.
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,019
26 Oct 2020 #59
@Crow
In Poland it's the foreign minister who administrates Poland's relations abroad, not the church. The church in Poland has the responsibility of Poland's moral compass, not the state (That the state is heavily influenced is another matter which I am positive about the church does as long as it's about morality)

Why are you having such difficult time to call German speaking people brother or sister in faith? Cause of Croatians who are using the church whenever possible for political gain?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,352
26 Oct 2020 #60
Polish Catholic Church never criticized Vatican for too close ties between Vatican and Germanics

This is beacause the issues most imortant for the RCC in Poland:are:

1. Number One: Money (preferably excluded from taxation as it is now)
2. Number Two: Sex (preferably with minors and under-aged)

Vatican and Germans are at the bottom of their priorities, so they don't care about them at all.


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