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Is Polish church involved in politics too much?


jon357 71 | 20,403
26 Oct 2020 #61
As I mentioned in another thread, certain psychological barrier was crossed yesterday

The leadership of the RCC in Poland doesn't grasp that sometimes less is more.
LostSoul 3 | 84
27 Oct 2020 #62
Way too much, than it should be.
mafketis 34 | 12,243
14 Apr 2021 #63
Terrible story from around Ełk. The Parish Priest had trees cut down (and pulled up by the roots) in a pre WWII Protestant cemetery destroying graves (and leaving bones on the surface of the ground.

He didn't have permission to cut down the trees (much less desecrate graves) and according to a commenter it's illegal at this time of year to cut down trees because it's nesting season for birds.

The priest needs to go to jail for this.

wiadomosci.wp.pl/zniszczony-ewangelicki-cmentarz-ksiadz-nie-mial-pozwolenia-na-wycinke-6628982778174400a
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
14 Apr 2021 #64
He didn't have permission to cut down the trees

Oops,. that might cost a lot - those cut down trees are worth their weight in gold.

The priest needs to go to jail for this.

Probably he won`t but they might punish him with a huge fine.
Crow 157 | 10,877
15 Apr 2021 #65
Catholic Church in Poland needs to openly distance itself from extreme Catholic teachings that are essentially pro-Germanic while also anti-Slavic.

Catholic Church in Poland never raised voice because genocide was committed on million Orthodox Serbs during WWII in organization by Vatican.

At the same time, Catholic Church in Poland, never that I know, raised its voice in protection of Kashubs that some in Poland consider pro-Germanic what is untrue, provocative and deeply wrong. Even evil.
Alien
15 Apr 2021 #66
Catholic Church in Poland is like a Queen in England. No matter what they say, they have to be there.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
23 Apr 2021 #67
Catholic Church in Poland is like a Queen in England.

Or like an ostrich which loves burying its head in the sand when unpleasant skeletons in their closets are discussed.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
29 May 2021 #68
Various problems of the Polish church unsolved for years are giving fruit now.

E..g,
The Pope demanded to see Polish bishops in the Vatican in autumn. They are expected to deliver detailed reports about their parishes. The Pope is concerned that Poland is slowly losing its traditiona laffiliation with the Catholic religion.

The number of new vocations is the lowest since 1970s.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
27 Feb 2022 #69
Is Polish church involved in politics too much?

Yes.

But not only. It also deals with other problems. E.g,, the latest statement about the invasion of Ukraine, today we could hear it during the mass service.

Polish Bishops say:

In connection with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, on behalf of the Polish Bishops' Conference, I strongly condemn the actions of Russia and Vladimir Putin as an unacceptable and shameful act of barbarity, directed against the sovereignty and independence of an independent state.

At the same time - together with the entire Church in Poland - I express my solidarity with all Ukrainians, both in Poland and in Ukraine, assuring them of our closeness, prayer and readiness to help.

In connection with the request of the Holy Father Francis, I am asking Bishops and all the faithful to celebrate Ash Wednesday in the Church in Poland as a day of fasting and prayer for peace and solidarity with Ukraine. I am asking every church and parish in Poland to pray for peace, and for the Ukrainians, that the Lord will refresh their hearts in the present tragic situation.

As the Church in Poland, we also want to come to our brothers with material help, which is why I appeal to organize a collection of victims into cans after each Holy Mass, both on this Sunday and on Ash Wednesday, which - through Caritas Polska - will be used to help war refugees from Ukraine. The help of the Catholic Church in Poland will be provided successively and systematically through our charitable institutions - parish, diocesan and national - including the Team for Aid to the Church in the East at the Polish Episcopal Conference.

Moreover, I am asking all believers and people of good will to be open towards those in need.

I entrust the fate of Ukraine and Poland to the Queen of Peace, assuring everyone of my spiritual closeness and prayer.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,532
27 Feb 2022 #70
@pawian

I am an atheist.
But a recent poll conducted in Poland showed that after Roman Catholicism, the Orthodox church was the most trusted religion.
Not surprising really, as they are so similar...
After that it was the Protestant church and then Buddhism,!
What do Poles know about these relgions?
Nothing.
So it is just an opinion
Poland has long had a fairly large Vietnamese population.
Mainly in Warsaw.
Many of these people run superb Vietnamese restaurants.
And Poles wrongly assume that most of them are Buddhists.
They forget the fact that Vietnam was,for a long time,controlled by France.
And in fact, most of those Vietnamese are Roman Catholics.
Perception is everything and nothing....
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
15 Jul 2022 #71
It is amasing that the RC Church is losing the most believers under the PIS government like never before. Has the holy alliance between PiS and the Church badly afftected the latter?

This was predicted by the OP in June 2020.
they also should be prepared that people who dislike such support will turn away from the Church first and then from God and faith.

The recent data is appalling - Poles are voting against RC Church with their feet in droves, especially the young ones.
newsweek.pl/polska/spoleczenstwo/mlodzi-masowo-odchodza-z-kosciola-zachecalam-ksiedza-do-grzechu-odslonietymi/x15943w

Experts suggest that the changes have accelarated since PiS took power.

Thank you, PiS!
mafketis 34 | 12,243
15 Jul 2022 #72
RC Church is losing the most believers under the PIS government like never before

completely predictable... the more the church is aligned with government the less most people want to have to do with it...

the best thing a Polish government could do for the church would be to slap some restrictions on it and speak out against its power
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
15 Jul 2022 #73
to slap some restrictions on it and speak out against its power

Like in communist times... :):):):)

If it works that way, the support for the Church will go up after the next government cuts down on its priviliges. :):):)
mafketis 34 | 12,243
15 Jul 2022 #74
Like in communist times...

Not that exteme, but... yeah, in Poland the church does best as an expression _against_ the government rather than as an arm of the government....

The popularity of Radio Maryja (back when it was a force) could also be explained in the same way.....
Miloslaw 14 | 4,532
15 Jul 2022 #75
n Poland the church does best as an expression _against_ the government rather than as an arm of the government.

Agreed 100%.

The last time the Catholic church was really strong was under the Polish Pope.
Those days have long gone.
Kashub1410 4 | 222
16 Jul 2022 #76
@mafketis
It is predictable, young teenagers are rebellious and aggressive (especially young men filled with too much testosterone men, why you think testosterone reducing attempts are done worldwide? ;) ) and push boundaries to assert their position within society (as they have none or very low).

Instead of creating jobs, increasing possibilities of creating workspace most are very easily put in jails until their testosterone period has lowered itself (why you think there are women who want to "save" testosterone filled men right?).

So a as teenagers are like that to create their own nest, build a family, have kids, the worlds makes every attempt to jail, punish, restrict or send them out in droves for mass slaughter against each other. (As part of competition of access to wider pool of by effect single lonely women and less men owning produced goods+land)

It's not without reason that a lot of top hierarchies with the business world want to recruit as many single women in to their companies, pushing hedonism onto them to lessen competition, lowering amount of humans giving birth.

It's just disgusting, yet the church is to fear? Give me a break here
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
16 Jul 2022 #77
rebellious and aggressive (especially young men filled with too much testosterone

Unfortunately, it is not the case. The church leavers are mostly women. Young ones. Too much testosteron?

, yet the church is to fear?

Yes, coz the vast majority of the clergy, both top and low, are willing and ready to participate in and even press on undemocratic policies to keep their power. Their alliance with PiS, a party which dreams of abolishing democracy and introducing soft dictatorship, is very harmful to Poland.

It will benefit us all when the current Church loses their power and influence in Poland. It is happening right now and nothing can stop it. Thank God.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
16 Jul 2022 #78
I can only speak for the US, but in the States, essentially church politics
IS American politics!!!

Am currently watching one of the finest Hollywood films, "The Last Hurrah" (1958) w/Spencer Tracey, and it illustrates as only a few such movies could, just how incestuously intertwined church and state really are. It's still all about backroom deals, the monsignor winks at the governor and vice versa, everybody trading favors with everybody else....then as now:-)
Miloslaw 14 | 4,532
16 Jul 2022 #79
I can only speak for the US, but in the States, essentially church politics IS American politics!!

That may be true in some parts of America, but not true of America in general.
Are you pushing this as part of your pro Jewish and anti Christian agenda again?

Lyzko, you really disappoint me.....
johnny reb 36 | 7,478
17 Jul 2022 #80
I can only speak for the US,

No, you can only give your personal opinion for the US.
The sad part is that you deny that the Great United States of America was founded on Christian values just like Poland is about Catholicism.

Not Jewish values.

Are you pushing this as part of your pro Jewish and anti Christian agenda again?

Very observant on your part Milo.
And the unbeknown part is that Lyzko is not even a practicing Jew, he only rides the shirttail of the Jewish Faith for his convenience.

So no, he does not speak for the US nor the confirmed Jews besides with his personal bias opinions.

Lyzko, you really disappoint me.....

Me too, especially as many times that he has been called out for being a Jew by ancestry only, being a college professor at a university, being able to speak Polish proficiently, and pretending to have lived in Poland and Germany.

Is the Polish church involved in politics too much ?
Of course not as this is what Poland was founded on just like the U.S.A. was founded on the church of Christianity beliefs.

You don't like it, take your personal agenda and move to Russia or China.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
18 Jul 2022 #81
'Scuse, folks! When I talk about the overweening influence of the Church, I of course include synagogues, mosques, and any number of other religious institutions.

The Catholic Church surely has no monopoly on corruption. It's merely more visible.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
18 Jul 2022 #82
move to Russia

The problem is that the Orthodox Church in Russia is much more poisoned by politics than in Poland. E.g, it openly supports the RuSSist invasion of Ukraine.

Is the Polish church involved in politics too much ? Of course not

You`d better not proclaim such opinions as you don`t live in Poland and your knowledge depends largely on what we write in the forum.

the U.S.A. was founded on the church of Christianity beliefs.

Yes, but mostly Protestant. Even you aren`t Catholic yourself - you attend those religious meetings organised by some Christian sect.

So why are you taking voice on the CATHOLIC Church in Poland if you know close to nothing?????
AntV 5 | 731
18 Jul 2022 #83
U.S.A. was founded on the church of Christianity beliefs.

That's not true. The US was founded on the self evident truths of the natural law. Our culture (including the law), however, is very much grounded in judeo-christian values.

Read the Declaration carefully and see if it mentions Christianity.
gregy741 5 | 1,696
18 Jul 2022 #84
"Is Polish church involved in politics too much?"
absolutely useless question. every social group or individual (apart from judiciary system) has constitutional right to be involved in social or political activities.
am not religious and dont care about catholic church,but even asking such question is discriminatory.
"are liberals involved in politics too much?" or "democrats"? or lgbt?
acctually CTHOLIC CHURCH political INFLUENCE IS EXTREMELY SMALL COMPARING ITS SIZE AND THE SIZE OF ITS FOLLOWERS.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
19 Jul 2022 #85
every social group has constitutional right to be involved in social or political activities.

Yes, but it is different with religion which depends on intimate personal convictions. If the clergy become too affiliated with the gov which is rejected by people, then it is natural they will reject such clergy, too. Isn`t it logical?

Currently PiS is supported by about 30% of Poles who see no problem in PiS and Church`s alliance. What about the remaining 70%? They see the problem and reject both PiS and the RC.
Kashub1410 4 | 222
19 Jul 2022 #86
then it is natural they will reject such clergy, too.

Then why are you talking about the church? Church = clergy+non-clergy members
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
19 Jul 2022 #87
Then why are you talking about the church?

Because the clergy who is rejected by people represents and makes the Church which is also rejected in result. Isn`t it logical?
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
27 Jul 2022 #88
The recent data is appalling - Poles are voting against RC Church with their feet in droves, especially the young ones.

Sunday mass attendance - a drop from 70% to 45% within a few years.
RC religion classes at schools - half students refuse to attend.

It isn`t only in big cities. I can see the change in our village - a few years ago we had to go to church earlier, like 15 minutes, to find a place in the car park. Now, the mass begins and there are still a lot of vacant spots.

If you know that old saying that every Pole is catholic, you can forget it. New times, new customs.
Veles - | 234
27 Jul 2022 #89
Sunday mass attendance - a drop from 70% to 45% within a few years.

Recently, Covid may have some impact on it. Although probably not as big as the Church and the wave of enlightenment.

If you know that old saying that every Pole is catholic, you can forget it. New times, new customs.

Somehow people believe that Poland is an ultra-Catholic country, only because they saw some questionable statistics. Those seem to be based on either the number of baptisms, or on such idiotic phenomena like the national census, where one member of a family can tell the lady on the other side of the phone that "yes, everyone in the household is a pious Catholic".

Yet people's attitude towards the Church is visible everywhere. And, to be honest, I don't think Poland was ever as religious (practically speaking) as some people want to suggest.
OP pawian 190 | 19,211
28 Jul 2022 #90
Recently, Covid may have some impact on it

Yes, last year. But not now.

In my village working in the fields on Sunday was a a taboo topic in the past. Yes, it used to happen but rarely, especially when farmers needed to avoid rainy weather forecasted for Monday, so they ordered a combine harvester for Sunday. Later the priest reproached them during the mass service. Today, harvesters and tractors drive in convoys on Sundays and nobody cares. The priest gave up.


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