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The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?


Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
31 Jan 2020 #1,381
We have regular shootings, you have regular rapes, stabbings, and other forms of cultural enrichment by migrants. Most of the shootings that occur in the US are between blacks and to a lesser extent latinos with whites a distant third. For every 1000 shootings between blacks over a woman, perceived disrespect, stepping on shoes, mad dogging etc. there's 1 mass shooting by some crazy white dude.

Just look at Chicago - the US murder capital. Over 90% of the shootings and homicides are committed by blacks. Whites, despite being a majority, account for around 4-5% on average yearly. For January 2020 out of the some 20 shootings that occurred none included a white victim or assailant. So personally I don't care - they can shoot each other all they want. If it were up to me I'd leave crates full of RPGs, mortars, flamethrowers in the hood for them to speed it up.

You have left out old land of Lincoln 5.8 and your neighbors in Indiana 5.6. Can't be bothered to look up any more.

Both have a high population of black people and hence a high murder rate. It's a fact that despite being only about 13, 14% of the us population, blacks commit the majority of violent crimes including murders.

South Dakota 1.4New Hampshire 1.5Rhode Island 1.5Vermont 1.6

All white states, which high levels of gun ownership I may add. Likely higher even than Illinois and Indiana. Difference is the amount of black vs white people.

Banned people beyond a certain skin tone would be the most effective way to stop murders, rapes, etc. Whether it's the USA, Germanistan, United Kaliphate or any other western country, non-whites commit a disproportionate amount of violent crimes.

Do people need a lethal weapon for self protection? Wouldn't something that fires rubber bullets be enough?

That does next to nothing - leaves a bruise that's it. And if you have a thick jacket it will do even less.

But it is very easy to convert a CS gun into an actual small cal pistol.

Even the United Kaliphate admitted in a report that their "blanket ban" did nothing and that street crime actually increased.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
31 Jan 2020 #1,382
Home burglary rates by country:

How about gun related deaths instead?

The support for pro gun legislation in Poland and all other European nations is DOA. They only have to watch what's going on in the USA with our mass shootings and other gun related crimes to make them run for the hills. You guys think it's a positive sign that we have the largest prison population in the world? Europeans would be stupid to make the same mistakes that America made.
cms neuf - | 1,579
31 Jan 2020 #1,383
White West Virginia has murder rates 3x higher than all European states. The reason is poverty, lack of jobs and easy access to guns.

Being as parts of West Virginia are similar in living standards to Poland it is a fitting comparison.

This thread is bizarre - Americans trying to convince Poles to carry deadly weapons. As I said many times if it is needed then some politicians would put it in their program, which they haven't done.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
31 Jan 2020 #1,384
This thread is bizarre - Americans trying to convince Poles to carry deadly weapons.

No. We, Americans, are trying to explain why we have guns. And "have" does not mean "carry".

What we are discussing is the principle of self-defense: either the state protects my as* or I do. The ruling elites everywhere want things the third way: nobody protects my as*.

Unless, of course, by hiring private guys with guns. Then it's OK, say the rulers who are given that kind of protection at the expense of the lesser people who can't afford it.
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
20 Feb 2020 #1,385
They only have to watch what's going on in the USA with our mass shootings

Speaking of 'mass shootings' have you seen the one that took place in Germany today ?
To bad the good guys didn't have guns to defend themselves with.

msn.com/en-us/news/world/police-say-8-killed-in-shootings-in-the-german-city-of-hanau/ar-BB10aKLj?li=BBnb7Kz

How can this happen where guns are illegal ?
(When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns)
The law abiding citizens of Poland will soon be begging to own guns for self defense.
jon357 66 | 16,187
20 Feb 2020 #1,386
How can this happen where guns are illegal ?

Guns aren't illegal in Germany....
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
20 Feb 2020 #1,387
Are you saying handguns are legal to carry in public in Germany, for self defense, where the mass shooting took place?
jon357 66 | 16,187
20 Feb 2020 #1,388
80 million people, 40 million guns.

Though of course it might have been very different if Kurdish people in Shisha cafes carry weapons...
Tacitus 2 | 1,146
20 Feb 2020 #1,389
As if this scenario would have allowed for self-defense. The culprit smbushed his targets at different bars, took them by surprise, and then left.

This is one of the most stupid arguments gun advocates make. As if some untrained civilians could stop a culprit when caught by surprise. Even trained police officers would have been helpless. It is a testiment to Germany's gun laws that we only rarely have such crimes. In fact only a few days ago, the police a couple of nazis who planned something similar, because attempts to get guns had caught the attention of the police.
jon357 66 | 16,187
20 Feb 2020 #1,390
This is one of the most stupid arguments gun advocates make. As if some untrained civilians could stop a culprit

Indeed; it's an insult to people's intelligence that they even suggest that. There's a big difference between a gun that fits in a handbag or holster and one of those Rambo-style assault weapons.

Even trained police officers would have been helpless.

Yes, and even in countries with a poor level of gun control, police are shot and killed in the line of duty, just as the country whose lack of gun control a poster is praising has by far the most mass shootings.
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
20 Feb 2020 #1,391
Guns aren't illegal in Germany....80 million people, 40 million guns.

You seemed to have avoided my question jon which was:
"Are you saying handguns are legal to carry in public in Germany, for self defense?"
(and Sources please this time)

As I understand it, both Poland and German systems of gun control is among the most stringent in Europe.
It restricts the acquisition, possession, and carrying of firearms to those with a creditable need for a weapon.
The number of legal guns in Germany is about 7 per 100 residents.
And if that is the case there would only be 5.6 million guns and not 40 million as you suggest.
Your credibility is slipping here jon. Hoot !

This is one of the most stupid arguments gun advocates make.

I disagree with you Tac.
If everyone in that bar was strapped a guy would think twice about if he would make it out the door alive and definitely not across the street once he got outside the bar.

It's happening more and more here in the States because people have had enough of these gang bangers and they are starting to get killed by responsible gun owners with a license to carry.
jon357 66 | 16,187
20 Feb 2020 #1,392
You seemed to have avoided my question

Deliberately, since it is an irrelevance; terrorists care little about such niceties. And as I said, there's roughly one gun for every two Germans...

If everyone in that bar was strapped a guy would think twice

The two terrorists shot people who were sitting in their cars.

It's happening more and more here in the States because people have had enough

Rubbish.
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
20 Feb 2020 #1,393
Deliberately,

And very inaccurately as you stated guns are legal in Germany.
I ask for sources and the only thing you produce is your British opinion.

And as I said, there's roughly one gun for every two Germans...

Rubbish.
That is another inaccuracy jon.
Not even one in ten according to my source. lol
Here is my source so where is yours.
bing.com/search?q=How%20many%20guns%20are%20there%20in%20Germany&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=how%20many%20guns%20are%20there%20in%20germany&sc=1-34&sk=&cvid=731CF9573EEA41AFA660AEFDD4F2F4D2

Are you feeling o.k. jon ?
jon357 66 | 16,187
20 Feb 2020 #1,394
Rattled somewhat?

Mass gun ownership doesn't work. There's a reason the civilised parts of the world don't do it...
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
20 Feb 2020 #1,395
Sorry, I didn't mean to rattle you,
All I wanted you to do is answer my question that embarrassed you because of your fabrication of facts.

Mass gun ownership doesn't work.

What has that got to do with my question of: "Are you saying handguns are legal to carry in public in Germany, for self defense?"

I don't think I stuttered.
Are you sure you are feeling o.k. ?
jon357 66 | 16,187
20 Feb 2020 #1,396
You didn't. You just suggested an escalation of gun ownership in a part of the world that has far, far fewer shootings than in your own.

As you've been told before, there is no appetite for reduced gun control in Poland, and no especial desire in Germany to see them on the streets.
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
20 Feb 2020 #1,397
But that hasn't anything to do with my question that you are dancing around jon.
You are just projecting a bunch of rubbish to avoid answering it. Hoot !

there is no appetite for reduced gun control in Poland

Now jon, go back and re read prior post in this thread about that.
It may surprise you when it is put up for a vote in Poland.
jon357 66 | 16,187
20 Feb 2020 #1,398
A vote by whom? None of the parties in the Sejm want it...
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
20 Feb 2020 #1,399
Are you going to answer my question or not , jon.
You are exhausting me with your re-directs.

A vote by whom? None of the parties in the Sejm want it...

The Polish people that want them.
You didn't go back and read the old posts in this thread did you.
But that is not the question, the question is: "Are you saying guns are legal to carry in public in Germany?"
jon357 66 | 16,187
20 Feb 2020 #1,400
Are you going

No, of course not.

The Polish people that want them.

And how would such a tiny minority trigger a vote in parliament?
Tacitus 2 | 1,146
20 Feb 2020 #1,401
If everyone in that bar was strapped a guy would think twice

Aside from the fact that this guy was a lunatic and intented to die from the beginning, there evidence whatsoever that this would deter mass shootings. Americans are armed to the teeth, yet there are constantly mass shootings. Evidence suggest that loose gun laws increase the number of mass shootings, so no thank you. We dont want mass shootings to become a regular thing here, and I am sure Polish peole will agree.

This is just a diversion of gun advocats after each mass shooting. Instead of admitting that there loose gun laws cause them, they instead claim that "only of there had been a good guy with a gun", no matter how unrealistic and silly this is.
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
20 Feb 2020 #1,402
No, of course not.

Then don't deduce with anymore of your lies like I just called you out on.
Of course you can't answer my questions.

And how would such a tiny minority trigger a vote in parliament?

Obviously you did not go back and read the previous posts here to be able to use the word "tiny", in your opinion.
I guess if people like you suppress the vote with your bias propaganda it will take much longer then it should to change the gun laws in Poland so people have a chance to defend themselves and their loved ones from a mental nut that has an illegal gun.

It might not happen in your life time but it will eventually happen.
cms neuf - | 1,579
20 Feb 2020 #1,403
There is no vote suppression - we have an election in May and any of the candidates are welcome to put looser gun laws into their programme. Same with parliamentary elections.

In 2015 Kukiz had that as part of his programme.

On this board you have a good sample of people who can vote in Poland - some left, some right and some middle - how many do you think want the free for all that there is in the US ?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
21 Feb 2020 #1,404
Fact is Poles have become pro-gun year to year. Reason why Poland isn't as pro-gun as say the USA is because Poland is safe and doesn't have a lot of violent crime hence there isn't as much of a need to have firearms for self-defense. Now that there is more violent crimes though especially in W Europe, more Poles see why having a gun for self-defense could be a good thing.

If you lived in a city where there's a shooting on average every 10 minutes - the vast majority of which are committed by black people with illegally obtained firearms - you'd want a gun for self-defense too.
cms neuf - | 1,579
21 Feb 2020 #1,405
But we don't - I would be amazed if there is one gun crime a week in any big Polish city. Support is growing but still extremely small. I don't know if the hunting kolo are getting new members but whenever I see them they all look 50+
Braveheart16 18 | 254
21 Feb 2020 #1,406
It would be the worst thing ever to follow the USA with similiar gun laws in Poland....a complete mess and an escalation of crime would inevitably follow....Poland doesn't need to follow the USA and if they did it would be a complete disaster which in the USA is now irreversible and beyond help.....the big problem are the organisations/businesses who use gun laws in the USA to peddle more and more weapons....even worse is the gun lobby who have far too much influence over politicians and any form of opposition.....just impossible to make any changes to reduce firearms.....why on earth are Americans arming themselves with automatic weapons...the wild West is still alive and well in the USA...
Miloslaw 8 | 2,418
21 Feb 2020 #1,407
more Poles see why having a gun for self-defense could be a good thing

Just not true.
Poles don't need guns and don't want them.
If you Yanks want to kill each other then that is your choice.
We Europeans have seen what a disaster your gun laws are and I think many Americans are starting to see that too.
Don't try to impose daft American mentality on Europeans, because it just won't work.... Europe ain't the Wild West.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
21 Feb 2020 #1,408
why on earth are Americans arming themselves with automatic weapons

Only the federally licensed dealers can have automatic weapons. Civilians cannot.
What is automatic, though, is the ignorance of the average Euro. With all those guns - 300,000,000 of them - the white American murder rate is actually lower than or equal to that in France, for example. We, whites, cannot be responsible for the Africans and the Latinos by the same logic that I am not responsible for what some scum has done in Illinois.

If you Yanks want to kill each other then that is your choice.

Yanks have the 1st and the 2nd Amendments. You don't. Should we give them both up? If so, which one should go first?
Also, the 300 millions guns is the reality. Any ideas what to do about them? If you do, don't forget that 2nd thingy.
Also, if we don't need guns, we don't need life insurance and neither do you. You do know that death is rare, right? In fact, it will happen only once in your lifetime, so what's the problem?

Finally, how come even the sickos never, or seldom, attack police stations? I guess even the sickos are not that sick.
Miloslaw 8 | 2,418
21 Feb 2020 #1,409
@Rich Mazur

There was not one, not even one, reason in your post that pointed to the fact that liberal gun ownership was a good thing.
Not one.
Please try harder........
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
21 Feb 2020 #1,410
I already covered it in my past posts: my ass needs protection. Either I do it or the state does it. Since the state told me to get lost or wait 12 minutes after I call 911, that leaves me with no option but tell the state to gfy and don't bother sending the cops. Send the coroner's van, instead, because you will find at least one dead body in my house.

Simple enough?


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