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Why mustn`t we allow PiS to rule Poland again?


pawian 150 | 7,954    
9 Jan 2013  #1
Think something of your own man :/

I try.

Why shouldn`t PiS rule Poland again?

`Cause they love using stalinist methods which cost innocent people their lives.

Let`s start the review of stalinist methods used by PiS with the case of Mirosław Garlicki which exploded in 2007 and finished a few days ago:

rawstory.com/news/2006/Heart_transplant_surgeon_suspected__02142007.html

Warsaw- A respected surgeon specialising in heart transplants has been arrested on charges of murder and corruption, the head of Poland's Central Anti-Corruption Bureau (CBA) said Wednesday in Warsaw. The evidence against the physician, identified only as Dr. Miroslaw G., head of the cardio-surgery department in Warsaw's elite Interior Ministry Hospital, is "shocking," CBA head Mariusz Kaminski said.

The doctor`s arrest was broadcast on national TV.

Also undercover films showing the doctor taking bribes were released. The doctor accepts a book with money inside from a grateful woman whose husband had been successfully operated on.



Justice Minister, Ziobro, says memorable words: No-one else will ever again be deprived of life by this man'



Mirosław Garlicki was a well regarded surgeon at Warsaw's interior ministry hospital. In what the young and ambitious justice minister, Zbigniew Ziobro, hoped would be a coup in his attempt to root out corruption in Polish public life, Garlicki was arrested in February while at work, and led out in handcuffs past stunned co-workers. The whole scene was filmed and broadcasted on national television."

thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2807%2961275-6/fulltext

A few days ago Warsaw court ruled that M. G., the head of open-heart surgery ward in one of best clinics in this country is guilty of accepting 17,000 Polish zlotys bribe and sentenced him for one year imprisonment suspended for two years. The parties may appeal.

tvn24.pl/wiadomosci-z-kraju,3/sedzia-tuleya-wskazywal-na-patologie-w-dzialaniach-cba-juz-od-2007-r,299100.html



Before that sentence, the doctor had sued the PiS Justice Minister, Ziobro, who had publicly accused him of murder in 2007, and he won.

[i]On 25 August 2008 the Kraków Regional Court gave judgment. It ordered the defendant to publish an apology directly after the main evening news programmes on the three national television stations (TVP, Polsat and TVN). The apology read: "I, Zbigniew Ziobro apologise to Dr Mirosław Garlicki for having said about him that 'no-one else will ever again be deprived of life by this man', which tarnished the reputation of Dr Mirosław Garlicki." "(Ja Zbigniew Ziobro przepraszam Pana dr Mirosława Garlickiego za wypowiedzenie pod jego adresem słów - już nikt nigdy przez tego Pana życia pozbawiony nie będzie - które naruszyły cześć Pana dr Mirosława Garlickiego)."


hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.aspx?i=001-105121#{%22itemid%22

The number of heart transplantations dropped by 60%. How many lives were lost thanks to PiS stalinist methods?
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
9 Jan 2013  #2
`Cause they love using stalinist methods which cost innocent people their lives.

what stalinist methods pawian

are hidden cameras stalinist methods
goofy_the_dog    
9 Jan 2013  #3
You should use your head more often, man... you should know what stalinist methods were... it only shows that your "history" is really poor or that you are a kid...

What it does show though, is tha nowadays, under the leadership of our Great kleader, the Sun of Peru, some things are better left unsaid because somebody may accuse you of something... where in all that is freedom of speech.

OUr Sun of Peru is bringing back an old regime back...
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
9 Jan 2013  #4
what stalinist methods pawian

Witnesses weren`t informed of their rights
Night interrogations of witnesses from 10 pm to 3 am.
Threatening witnesses, as old as 80, with arrest or other unpleasant results of their refusal to cooperate etc.
Forcing witnesses to give false evidence.

etc to be continued

The judge who sentenced the doctor called these methods stalinist and announced reporting them to the court.
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
9 Jan 2013  #5
Threatening witnesses, as old as 80, with arrest or other unpleasant results of their refusal to cooperate etc.

bribery is a crime in Poland for both parts pawian - this is no threatening to my eyes - this is informing people - prosecution was very lenient with those who paid bribes anyway

forcing people to give false evidence - is not proven yet and you are very quick to judge

the judge is an idiot and he will pay for what he said sooner or later - btw his senior already stated that the judge greatly exaggerated and belittled the crimes of stalinism in Poland

Witnesses weren`t informed of their rights

how do you know they weren't informed - because Mr Tuleya told you so - I don't trust him and I wait for a thorough investigation

btw night interrogation aren't a crime in Poland and are used more often than you would imagine
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
20 Jan 2013  #6
because Mr Tuleya told you so - I don't trust him and I wait for a thorough investigation

You don`t trust him because he dared to tell the truth about PiS CBA actions?

btw night interrogation aren't a crime in Poland and are used more often than you would imagine

From 10 pm to 3am, connected with threats and even death?? Come on..... Such interrogations are illegal in Poland

Judge Tuleya raised questions over the methods used by investigators when questioning the accused. He suggested the use of night time questioning and long periods of interrogation were not acceptable. "Night interrogation, arrest - a tactic law enforcement used in the Dr. Miroslaw G. case can create terror. (...) This raises associations not even with the 1980s but with the methods of the 40s and 50s - a time when Stalinism was at its height," said the judge.

The comments have created a political storm as the interrogations took place at a time when the Law and Justice (PiS) party led by Jaroslaw Kaczynski were in power. A parliamentary commission later heard that the justice minister at the time, Zbigniew Ziobro, was felt to be putting excessive pressure on law enforcement agencies to bring charges against suspected criminals.

The former head of the CBA Mariusz Kaminski reacted angrily to the judge's comments and demanded that an investigation into his conduct be carried out. He claimed the judge's comments had insulted the members of the CBA and had tarnished the reputation of the judiciary. "It's irresponsible. You cannot attack officers of the Polish state in this way, while not providing more specific charges," fumed Kaminski.


he judge is an idiot and he will pay for what he said sooner or later - btw his senior already stated that the judge greatly exaggerated and belittled the crimes of stalinism in Poland

Really?:

The judge has received support from the former president of the Constitutional Tribunal Jerzy Stepien who told TVN24 that the judge had done nothing untoward. "He used an adequate comparison, these were Stalinist methods." When asked to comment on Mr. Kaminski's call for disciplinary proceedings to be brought against Judge Tuleya, Mr. Stepien offered to defend Tuleya's right to voice his concerns. "I'd love to be made the judge's lawyer," he told the station.

Independent lawyers are unanimous: CBA/prosecutors used illegal methods.
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
20 Jan 2013  #7
You don`t trust him because he dared to tell the truth about PiS CBA actions?

the late interrogations were not done by the CBA but by the prosecution inform yourself better

connected with threats and even death??

what threats what death - you are really gullible pal - you swallow like a young pelcian everything Wyborcza writes
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
20 Jan 2013  #8
what threats what death - you are really gullible pal - you swallow like a young pelcian everything Wyborcza writes

Don`t be silly. By denying the truth, you won`t erase it from people`s minds.

Communist times passed long ago, let me remind you. Today the media are independent, not controlled by the party or the Kremlin.
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
20 Jan 2013  #9
The media are indpendent, not controlled by the party.

the media you are talking about are anti-Pis - they would never write about Mr Tuleya background
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
20 Jan 2013  #10
the late interrogations were not done by the CBA but by the prosecution inform yourself better

Nominated by PiS Justice Minister, Ziobro. They did what he told them. And they got rewarded for it with special bonuses.

At the end of the tenure Justice Minister Zbigniew Ziobro appreciated prosecutors investigating the cardiac surgeon Miroslaw G. MIA Hospital Street. Wołoska - notifies the "Life of Warsaw" .

Awards in the amount of 5 to 10 thousand . respectively, were awarded for a special contribution to any serious conduct - confirms national prosecutor Dariusz Barski . I do not remember all the names and things, but I admit that among the winners are people involved in proceedings relating to a cardiac surgeon - he adds.


the media you are talking about are anti-Pis -

Why?
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
20 Jan 2013  #11
Nominated by PiS Justice Minister, Ziobro.

you are full of nonsense - there is not enough prosecutors in reserve so that PiS would nominate their own prosecutors - these were regular prosecutors

gumishu:
the media you are talking about are anti-Pis -

Why?

because they are corrupt from the very start - Michnik stole Gazeta Wyborcza from Solidarność and appropriated donations from American polonia - TVN was established by a branch of military intelligence collaborators - Solorz was a collaborator of SB
Lenka 2 | 1,063    
21 Jan 2013  #12
the media you are talking about are anti-Pis - they would never write about Mr Tuleya background

I wasn't going to take part in this but now I must ask-what the fact that his parents were in SB has to do with his actions?If you think that's some real argument you're mistaken.Someone took some facts and insinuated that because of that his decisions are not valid?
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
21 Jan 2013  #13
there is not enough prosecutors in reserve so that PiS would nominate their own prosecutors - these were regular prosecutors

By nominated I meant chosen for the investigation. Ziobro had a few trusted prosecutors and used them against "Dr Mengele" and they carried out all his orders.
Ironside 47 | 9,492    
21 Jan 2013  #14
stalinist methods?

Stalinist methods would be if they would arrest an innocent dude, tortured him and then forced him to plead guilt and then send him to prison for ten years or killed him.

A few days ago Warsaw court ruled that M. G., the head of open-heart surgery ward in one of best clinics in this country is guilty

So he is guilty!

Forcing witnesses to give false evidence.

Non of those are Stalinist methods if true (which I doubt), ergo you are talking rubbish as usual pawian.

peewee defender of criminals!
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
21 Jan 2013  #15
So he is guilty!

Yes! But PiS made him Dr Mengele for publicity reasons and destroyed the transplantation programme in the whole region! You are lucky one of your parents wasn`t registered for a heart operation in 2007!

The number of heart transplantations dropped by 60%. How many lives were lost thanks to PiS stalinist methods?

Dirty politics of PiS probably cost about 100 people their lives.

Heart transplants in Poland

Before
2004 -104
2005 - 95
2006 - 93

After
2007 - 64
2008 - 61
2009 - 71
2010 - 79
2011 - 80.
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
21 Jan 2013  #16
Dirty politics of PiS probably cost about 100 people their lives.

have you ever heard of Walerian Pańko and Michał Falzmann pawian? these guys were murdered in free Poland - and Walerian Pańko was a head of NIK - what about all of those strange suicides like Lepper's
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
21 Jan 2013  #17
what about all of those strange suicides like Lepper's

:):):):) I heard about them, but please, don`t start crazy conspiracy theories in my thread. :):):) It is really enough when we discuss such hot topic as maniacs at power.

I wasn't going to take part in this but now I must ask-what the fact that his parents were in SB has to do with his actions?If you think that's some real argument you're mistaken.

It is an old stalinist method to hold children responsible for their parents` deeds.

Today, those who try to press the judge by pointing to his mother, are true heirs of Stalin, indeed.
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
21 Jan 2013  #18
ever heard about Andrzej Żydek pawian ??? you must have - this land is ruled by corruption and there is only one political force in Poland that is determined to change it
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
21 Jan 2013  #19
ever heard about Andrzej Żydek pawian ???

No. Should I?

you must have - this land is ruled by corruption and there is only one political force in Poland that is determined to change it

If you mean PiS, you are wrong. They are the biggest maniacs in Poland and after getting power, they will not fight corruption and other crimes but will take revenge on their today`s political opponents.
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
21 Jan 2013  #20
take revenge on their today`s political opponents

how's that possible if done against the law - is PiS an antidemocratic bunch? - you are just blowing up your own misconceptions and what you have been fed by the media - I wish you a new PiS govermnent in the next elections :)

btw it's not your thread - it belongs to all
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
21 Jan 2013  #21
because they are corrupt from the very start - Michnik stole Gazeta Wyborcza from Solidarność and appropriated donations from American polonia - TVN was established by a branch of military intelligence collaborators - Solorz was a collaborator of SB

Even if that is true, these media are operating in an independent country today, in the free market. They can be chosen or rejected by readers, viewers and listeners. And what is their free choice? Do you want to introduce a ban on free media because most Poles are against PiS?
Ironside 47 | 9,492    
21 Jan 2013  #22
Yes! But

But nothing! He is guilty judged by the judge whom you cannot in your wildest dreams call a PiS supporter.

PiS made him

If not for medias support for his arrogant lies and denials there would much less about him in the mass media.
I forgot that everything is PiS fault! I guess if a bird ***** on you - you are looking for closed PiS member to blame him for that.

You are lucky one of your parents wasn`t registered for a heart operation in 2007!

If that has been run by criminals everybody is lucky to survive the experience.
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
21 Jan 2013  #23
is PiS an antidemocratic bunch? -

Yes! These maniacs will pact with the Devil to reach their aims.

you are just blowing up your own misconceptions

Funny I have the same feeling about you. :):):)

what you have been fed by the media

Excuse me, Sir, I use my brain too, from time to time. :):):)

I wish you a new PiS govermnent in the next elections :)

Spit it out!!! Now!!

btw it's not your thread - it belongs to all

Yes, but I originated it and I am personally responsible for it. When sth goes wrong, I will be held responsible by the mods for not taking care of my thread. That is why, if you want to talk conspiracy theories, start new or go to old threads about Lepper etc.

If that has been run by criminals everybody is lucky to survive the experience.

I showed statistics which clearly say that the number of heart transplants dropped significantly in 2007 and hasn`t returned to the previous level. PiS wanted to have a spectacular success, but they consciously chose the death of patients.
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
21 Jan 2013  #24
These maniacs

you are a maniac and your power of observation is next to null if you reach such conclusions

I will be held responsible by the mods for not taking care of my thread.

you are talking bull

btw you should be going to bed soon :P
Ironside 47 | 9,492    
21 Jan 2013  #25
f you want to talk conspiracy theories,

Why/ You have been talking conspiracy theories readily enough when it suited your agenda.
Don't be so shy now.
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
21 Jan 2013  #26
you are a maniac

you are talking bull

I was wondering when you would resort to personal abuse.

Quite quickly! :):):):):)

No more arguments?? :):):):)

btw you should be going to bed soon :P

Is that really all?? :):):):)

If yes, let`s indeed stop for a while and I will keep you informed how the case develops.
gumishu 11 | 4,897    
21 Jan 2013  #27
I was wondering when you would resort to personal abuse.

see if the mods care about my extraordinarily abusive language pawian :P:)

I repeat it pawian you are a gullible anti-Pis maniac :)
OP pawian 150 | 7,954    
21 Jan 2013  #28
see if the mods care about my extraordinarily abusive language pawian :P:)

Trying to jokingly avoid inconvenient questions? I asked you a very important one:

Even if that is true, these media are operating in an independent country today, in the free market. They can be chosen or rejected by readers, viewers and listeners. And what is their free choice? Do you want to introduce a ban on free media because most Poles are against PiS?

I also pointed to the tragedy of patients:

I showed statistics which clearly say that the number of heart transplants dropped significantly in 2007 and hasn`t returned to the previous level. PiS wanted to have a spectacular success, but they consciously chose the death of patients.

gumishu 11 | 4,897    
21 Jan 2013  #29
Even if that is true, these media are operating in an independent country today, in the free market. They can be chosen or rejected by readers, viewers and listeners. And what is their free choice? Do you want to introduce a ban on free media because most Poles are against PiS?

let's see what happens when the people get angry at PO and PSL when they are out of jobs which can happen quite soon - there is no way to run in Europe now (not so many jobs anywhere crisis everywhere) - will they believe the media again then ??? don't think so
Ironside 47 | 9,492    
21 Jan 2013  #30
Heart transplants in Poland

A history of Heart transplantation in Poland was connected with Religa.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Religa


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