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The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?


Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
30 Jan 2020 #1,351
You might as well ask me what I would do if I were to meet a shark while swimming in a local river.

This is how Euro weasels respond to a simple question: with a shark analogy. Why? Because they are Euro weasels.
"Honey, I am defenseless, so do what those two gentlemen tell you". "I have nothing to defend you with, dear, because I read the statistics on gun safety".

The contempt I have for you and the weasels like you is hard to describe.
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
30 Jan 2020 #1,352
Easy Rich, you are punching way to hard.

Always funny when untrained civilians claim that they would do just fine in such a situation.

That is a fact to reckon with especially when you are awoken out of a dead sleep in the pitch dark or when you already have a gun pointing at you.

Good point Tac.
Spike31 2 | 2,101
30 Jan 2020 #1,353
Always funny when untrained civilians claim that they would do just fine in such a situation.

Me and my generation served as a conscripts in Polish army which was mandatory for every healthy adult men up until year 2009. We are not untrained civilians.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
30 Jan 2020 #1,354
Easy Rich, you are punching way to hard.

I am too gentle. Having a buddy like that weasel to rely on for safety would be deadly. He would freeze and beg for his life. Disgusting.

awoken out of a dead sleep in the pitch dark or when you already have a gun pointing at you.

Bullsh*it! When my wife starts walking up the stairs in the dead of night from our rec room two levels below in the basement I wake up instantly.

You just created a scenario I didn't with that gun in your face. Mine starts with two as*holes breaking a window or the door. In reaction to those sounds, you would get a shot of adrenalin and have your gun in your hand with the safety up in two seconds.

You changed the scene to take away from my point that he is just a typical weak, limp-wristed weasel I would never want to be close to or, God forbid, rely on for survival.

I met exactly this type of Euros before I retired. They would always dismiss my questions with that stupid nervous smile or a lame joke.

I take the responsibility for my posts. If you want to argue - fine, but don't patronize me.
Tacitus 2 | 1,146
30 Jan 2020 #1,355
The contempt I have for you and the weasels like you is hard to describe.

Not worse than my contempt for you, I assure you. Though in this case I find your arguments just pitiful. You have no capability of decent risk assessment and I hope for your family that you won't harm them by having a gun.

We are not untrained civilians.

There have been studies showing that the shooting accuracy of police officers goes down dramatically in firefights. And those guys are specially trained for this sort of situation.

google.com/amp/s/ajc.com/blog/get-schooled/gunfights-trained-officers-have-percent-hit-rate-yet-want-arm-teachers/mDBlhDtV6Na4wJVpeu58cM/amp.html
Ironside 50 | 10,814
30 Jan 2020 #1,356
Though in this case I find your arguments just pitiful.

You know nothing about American realities, In rural areas of the USA a gun to defend your household is a must. Some goes for cities with millions of guns in the hands of criminals. Anyway, this topic is not about USA but Poland.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
30 Jan 2020 #1,357
You have no capability of decent risk assessment a

Hmm...What should I do when two as*holes on drugs break into my house? Defend myself or offer coffee? What was that course on risk assessment I took back in college? Let me think...

Only a sick Euro weasel can look at the act of saving his and his wife's life as a risk assessment question.

These inconvenient statistics answer that question without any weasel equivocations. Home burglary rates by country:

2. Denmark 1053
3. Austria 925
4. Sweden 905
8. France 591
10. Switzerland 554
11. Germany 578
15. USA 470
30. Poland 209

I couldn't find any information on how many of the weasel countries listed above require the homeowner to retreat or offer no resistance.

The above stats make my contempt for the Euros even higher.

Source: knoema.com/atlas/ranks/Burglary-rate
Tacitus 2 | 1,146
30 Jan 2020 #1,358
Anyway, this topic is not about USA but Poland.

Hence my original point. Polish people dont need them, hence they should not have them.
Ironside 50 | 10,814
30 Jan 2020 #1,359
Polish people dont need them,

That is not a point that is an assumption or at best your opinion. I say that people should be able to decide what they want themslefses. I could say they don't need cars, TV's, or this and that... It is up for them to decide what they need or what they want.

My point is that is not a question of need but right.
I bet you support gays marriage. Hey but they don't need that do they, hell even more of them do not want it. Why would you support them? There is no logic in your arbitrary set of rules.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
30 Jan 2020 #1,360
Polish people dont need them,

Hence, you are ducking the subject by switching to the US and conveniently ignoring the weasel countries - like the top three. A sensible answer the weasels are not capable of giving would be this: Poland is lucky to have the rate that is one-fifth of Denmark's and is a statistical oddity in Europe. WE has a problem that is aggravated by two facts: the owners are not armed, so the risks to the criminals are low, and (2) the homeowners are, by the insane weasel laws, required to retreat or offer no resistance. That would be what a reasonably intelligent person would say. But not a scared and apologetic weasel. Never.

So, I am going to guess that if the homeowner hurts the burglar, the homeowner will be charged criminally. The burglar, if he is a Muslim, will skate because "he just didn't know that breaking into a home is not nice". That's Europe for you.

My point is that is not a question of need but right.

That was brilliant. The logic being: since you don't need it, you have no right to have it.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,182
30 Jan 2020 #1,361
Polish people dont need them, hence they should not have them.

Of course, the overwhelming majority of people in Poland don't need them (I suppose this is the case in Germany as well). But to say they shouldn't have them is a gross exageration. When someone feels he needs a gun, he can apply for a licence. I think that if he has no good reasons to have one, he would be denied that licence. And here lies the difference with America.

Most Polish people support the present legislation on guns. There has been no public debate in Poland over the issue recently and there seems to exist a general satisfaction about things as they are now in Poland. Except for some crazy nationalists, people here feel no need whatsoever to change anything in this area. Amen!
Ironside 50 | 10,814
30 Jan 2020 #1,362
There has been no public debate in Poland over the issue recently

There is not publics debate about anything in Poland. There is a tribal BS war between PiS and PO .

he has no good reasons to have one,

BS reasoning. Why the hell not? Who is going to decide it?

general satisfaction about these things as they are now in Poland.

Yes, there is not a mass political movement about guns in Poland. Doesn't mean people are satisfied. Lots pf people are for change in legislation some organization too.

Only some stupid conceit a-holes do not know that.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
30 Jan 2020 #1,363
In "America", things are in reverse as opposed to the countries with subjects.

In "America", we have a constitutional right to defend ourselves. Only under special circumstances, that right can be denied by the government.

In the weasel countries with subjects, governments have the monopoly on defending the subjects' lives since they, the subjects, are the government property.

Only under special circumstances, the governments allow very few weasels to protect themselves since the need to live has to be justified as strange and rare.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
30 Jan 2020 #1,364
Hence my original point. Polish people dont need them, hence they should not have them.

How do you know what tens of millions of people need and don't need? You don't. Thinking you can speak for the entire Polish population just shows your arrogance and ignorance.
Tacitus 2 | 1,146
30 Jan 2020 #1,365
Why would you support them?

Because gay marriage doesnt impact me in the slightest, it does not pose any danger to me or my loved ones. Nor am I discriminating against someone by arbitrarily withholding basic rights to a group of people that others enjoy. If we had gun laws like in America, we would see an increase in mass shootings and police violence, both of which would have an impact on me. Guns are not something you should buy at Walmart, or keep lying around in your home. If someone wants a gun because he is a hunter, or is in a shooting range, then he should be able to buy one after he does the required background check and passes surprise inspection that prove that he keeps them safely stored.

However aside from hunting and sport, there is no rational reason to own a gun. I prefer my right of not living in fear from mass shootings ober the right of someone who wants a gun because he saw too many Cowboy films.Just because Americans have come to see mass shootings as something perfectly normal, does not mean we should do the same.
Spike31 2 | 2,101
30 Jan 2020 #1,366
Polish people dont need them, hence they should not have them.

That's a typical totalitarian point of view, deciding for the others: "in my opinion they don't need then hence they shouldn't have them".

Well, tough break since I will have one this spring just like over 120k fellow hunters in Poland. Every men should be able to defend himself, his family and his household. And to be able to use a gun effectively in cause of war, which happens quite often in this part of the world.
Tacitus 2 | 1,146
30 Jan 2020 #1,367
"in my opinion they don't need then hence they shouldn't have them".

It is no just an opinion. The only two reasons why someone realistically needs a gun is for hunting and sport. If you are a hunter you should have one, I just hope for the sake of your family you are a responsible gun owner.
Spike31 2 | 2,101
30 Jan 2020 #1,368
@Tacitus, then I suggest that you should start with Germany before giving lectures to Poland

Number of firearms per 100 persons

Germany: 19.6

Poland: 2.5

Total number of firearms owned by civilians:

Germany: 15.8 million

Poland: 0.97 million

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
30 Jan 2020 #1,369
The only two reasons why someone realistically needs a gun is for hunting and sport.

That's what the American fascists say while ignoring the fact that the primary reason why we have the 2nd is to be able to resist a despotic government.
Ironside 50 | 10,814
30 Jan 2020 #1,370
doesnt impact me in the slightest,

Nether gun ownership, statistically it is more likely to by hit by a car than to be shot by a gun. So, danger to you is purely imaginary. You're simply afraid of guns and you are projecting your fear on a society.

from hunting and sport, there is no rational reason to own a gun.

There is - a right to self-defense. A fundamental human right.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
30 Jan 2020 #1,371
Unless the government has the monopoly on defending. Starting with the ruling elites and the beautiful people, of course.
Tacitus 2 | 1,146
30 Jan 2020 #1,372
Germany: 19.6

And all of them have a reason to own them and are regulary checked upon. If someone wants to have a gun for e.g. hunting and is willing to invest time and money to get it, and shows that he can trusted with it, he should have one.

So, danger to you is purely imaginary.

So is the fear of getting killed by a break-in. Gun advocats want others to accept an increase in gun violence and mass shooting for the purely hypothetical scenario of a break-in, or a "tyrannical government" taking over. A government that would possess drones, tanks, jets. I like the fact that children dont need to be educated how to behave during a mass shooting, and I hope it stays that way.

youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0?t=254
johnny reb 28 | 4,574
30 Jan 2020 #1,373
how to behave during a mass shooting

Seems 'mass shootings' is the crutch for many anti-gun owners here.
The mass shootings in the U.S. are generally committed with assault weapons with high capacity magazines.
Big difference than having a five shot capacity gun.
So many myths out there to create an allusion of reality.
Did you know that Chicago is not even close to being the gun violence capital of the United States ?
But who in Poland would know this fact by reading the posts here on this forum.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
30 Jan 2020 #1,374
Just because Americans have come to see mass shootings as something perfectly normal, does not mean we should do the same.

No instead Europeans got use to spontaneous cultural enrichment - cars driving into crowds, stabbings, bombings, etc. and of course the daily sexual assaults and robberies committed by migrants.

Oh and gun control really worked well in stopping the Paris attacks where over a hundred people were mowed down with an AK.

"Part and parcel of living in a big city" as the kebab mayor of Londonistan put it.
Tacitus 2 | 1,146
30 Jan 2020 #1,375
You see, that is the difference between Europe and the USA. You can point to a few incidents over the years where mass shootings happened, while we can point to some during the last few months. The mass shooting in Paris is so exceptional because it is completely out of the ordinary. In the USA it would have been just another Las Vegas.
Spike31 2 | 2,101
30 Jan 2020 #1,376
And all of them have a reason to own them

So I'll be happy when Poland reach a level of 19 firearms per 100 citizens like in Germany. All of which they will have a reason to own.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
30 Jan 2020 #1,377
gun control really worked well in stopping the Paris attacks where over a hundred people were mowed down with an AK.

But does not count, Dirk, because most of their Muslim guests have too much PTSD, not enough sex, and didn't know that it is illegal to mow down people with an AK. Or at least they were not told when they arrived.
Vlad1234 16 | 754
30 Jan 2020 #1,378
Do people need a lethal weapon for self protection? Wouldn't something that fires rubber bullets be enough? Also guns could be equipped by an electronic stoppers activated by police remotely.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
30 Jan 2020 #1,379
You see, that is the difference between Europe and the USA.

There is no difference between Europe and the USA murder rates.
France 1.3
Belgium 1.7
Denmark 1.2
Finland 1.2
---------------------
South Dakota 1.4
New Hampshire 1.5
Rhode Island 1.5
Vermont 1.6

Conclusion: guns have zero effect on the murder rates.

Also guns could be equipped by an electronic stoppers activated by police remotely.

Are you OK?
cms neuf - | 1,579
30 Jan 2020 #1,380
You have left out old land of Lincoln 5.8 and your neighbors in Indiana 5.6. Can't be bothered to look up any more.

Never mind - it will soon be 5pm and time For some overstewed herbata and inauthentic pierogi while listening to some out of tune Nieman hits down the Pol Am club.


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