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Repopulating Poland with Ukrainians?


polonius 54 | 420
25 Nov 2012  #1
Polish Radio has reported demographic expert Professor Zbigniew Strzelecki as predicting the decline of Poland’s population by six million within the next 40 years. 'If Poland does not take action, its population will decrease reduce from 38 to 32 million in 40 years’ time,' he said. This will happen 'if we do not react to decreasing fertility and stop migration,' Professor Strzelecki, who heads the government's Population Council, told Polish Radio. Poland's birth rate is one of the lowest in Europe, as couples delay having children due to financial worries. To remedy the shrinking population, 'we must therefore prepare to welcome immigrants of different cultures, which raises a variety of issues,' the demographer said. The main source of immigration will be from Poland's eastern borders, where the demographic situation 'is even worse than in Poland'. Poland saw a jump in migration after it joined the EU in 2004, with hundreds of thousands finding jobs in the UK, Ireland and other nations such as the Netherlands.
legend 3 | 664
25 Nov 2012  #2
Forget Immigration, couples need babies. The government has to address this and give significant incentives to woman who have more children.
Additionally the liberal lifestyle is destructive from the inside out. People should keep to traditionalist lifestyle.

I remember viewing a chart (dont have it on me) that around 1950 Polish woman had over 3.7 one of the highest in Europe. I'll post the graph if I refind it.

In 1980, 2.3 kids / couple,
data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?page=6

down to 1.31 kids /couple IN 2012
cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html
johnb121 4 | 184
25 Nov 2012  #3
In a time of unsustainable population, I am glad to see Poland taking a lead in the effort the world needs to make to get it's population under control. And, of course, not locking it's women into a perpetual cycle of pregnancy and child raising.

If poorer families need government support (note, NOT encouragement) then it should be limited to a maximum of two children - if the parents can afford to raise more, then they should be allowed to do so (if they can afford to raise them, they must by definition pay enough in taxes to pay for their healthcare and education), but they should not receive any state support. If they cannot afford more, then they need to stop.
legend 3 | 664
25 Nov 2012  #4
1950 fertility rates (child per woman):
esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/country-profiles/country-profiles_1.htm
TommyG 1 | 361
25 Nov 2012  #5
Pawian has already raised this issue some time ago. It's not just a case of decreasing fertility rates but also that Polish couples are migrating and starting families in other countries. I think this is the real problem. I think Poland will have enough immigrants (who will be starting families) over the next 10-20 years to counter this. It really isn't a major issue. Irelands had the same issue for a long time now. They're still here.
zetigrek
26 Nov 2012  #6
What is better when a disfunctional mother have several children or when a decent couple have one baby?
Artur13 2 | 25
26 Nov 2012  #7
I see no problem with Ukrainians and other Slavs. (Hopefully) They will assimilate and learn Polish. Their culture is similar to ours. The problem of a disappearing culture begins when you have immigration from Africa, Middle East, and South Asia. They have a completely different culture, different religion etc.
OP polonius 54 | 420
26 Nov 2012  #8
I wonder where Ukraine will start looking for new immirgants when one-fourth of their popuialtion rebases in Poland or emigrates elsewhere? They'll probably mainly have the Caucases and Far East to provide the lacking manpower.
Nacjonalista 4 | 96
26 Nov 2012  #9
I see no problem with Ukrainians and other Slavs. (Hopefully) They will assimilate and learn Polish. Their culture is similar to ours. The problem of a disappearing culture begins when you have immigration from Africa, Middle East, and South Asia. They have a completely different culture, different religion etc.

This
berni23 7 | 379
26 Nov 2012  #10
Thats called diversity.
Id choose hardworking Asians over fascists blaming others for their shortcomings anytime.
Artur13 2 | 25
26 Nov 2012  #11
berni23 Today, 00:47 Reply #

Thats called diversity.

What are you referring to when you say "that."

Id choose hardworking Asians over fascists blaming others for their shortcomings anytime.

"Fascist" was not mentioned at all in this thread. Are you referring to all Ukrainians as "fascists" ?
berni23 7 | 379
26 Nov 2012  #12
Thats what i meant by diversity:

The problem of a disappearing culture begins when you have immigration from Africa, Middle East, and South Asia. They have a completely different culture, different religion etc.

"Fascist" was not mentioned at all in this thread. Are you referring to all Ukrainians as "fascists" ?

Nope, i was referring to certain members on PF.
legend 3 | 664
26 Nov 2012  #13
Inside a liberals head...

anything to right of communism/socialism or liberalism is fascism!
Artur13 2 | 25
26 Nov 2012  #14
Alright. Thanks for clearing that up. :)

Remember that diversity isn't just about skin color. Language, hair color, facial features, hair texture, and many other components form diversity.

@legend
Remember that fascism can be left wing also...but no one knows what is going on in a liberal's mind :D.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
26 Nov 2012  #15
anything to right of communism/socialism or liberalism is fascism!

Hardly. You might want to investigate what being "liberal" actually means - here's a hint, it's not what Fox News tells you.
Artur13 2 | 25
26 Nov 2012  #16
I don't watch "Fox News" but would you be able to tell me what liberalism is?

( no I am not acting sarcastic)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
26 Nov 2012  #17
I don't watch "Fox News" but would you be able to tell me what liberalism is?

I think the Wikipedia definition is best, personally -

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis)[1] is a political philosophy or worldview founded on the ideas of liberty and equality.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas such as free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and a right to life, liberty, and property.[3][4][5][6][7]

Seems good to me.
berni23 7 | 379
26 Nov 2012  #18
Remember that diversity isn't just about skin color. Language, hair color, facial features, hair texture, and many other components form diversity.

Language is the only not redundant thing you mentioned.
And you are forgetting about all the good things diversity brings with it: food, arts, sports etc..
Nacjonalista 4 | 96
26 Nov 2012  #19
I think the Wikipedia definition is best, personally -Seems good to me.

Back so soon? What an (un) pleasant surprise. As for the definition it sounds more like libertarian than liberal.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
26 Nov 2012  #20
Yes.

As for the definition - perhaps you should read books rather than relying on Fox News for information. We all know how the conservative media completely abuses and misuses the term liberal.

Now, care to tell us why you think this is a bad thing?
Nacjonalista 4 | 96
26 Nov 2012  #21
fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and a right to life, liberty, and property.

Those things except "civil rights" are good and libertarian not liberal. Like Ron Paul said the reason the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional is because a business owner should have the prerogative on who he serves or leases his apartment out to.

Liberal:

Pro big governmet - which goes against all the things the definition lists

Cuddling of minorities

Discrimination against whites

Pro welfare state
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
26 Nov 2012  #22
Those things except "civil rights" are good and libertarian not liberal. Like Ron Paul said the reason the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional is because a business owner should have the prerogative on who he serves or leases his apartment out to.

Again, I suggest reading more books. Those things are liberal by definition.

And yes, a business owner should have the choice - except that in a country that abused civil rights so much and had so much problems with racism, it's needed to ensure a right to life, liberty, and property.. Perhaps it can be repealed when the need for it no longer exists.

Pro big governmet - which goes against all the things the definition lists

Wrong. Liberals stand for a decentralised government that has a hands-off approach.

Cuddling of minorities

Wrong. Liberals seek equality for all.

Discrimination against whites

Wrong. Liberty and equality for all is a crucial part of liberalism.

Pro welfare state

Wrong. Liberals believe in the free market and a non-interventionist state.

You really ought to learn what a liberal is before attempting to insult them.
berni23 7 | 379
26 Nov 2012  #23
Liberal:
Pro big governmet - which goes against all the things the definition lists
Cuddling of minorities
Discrimination against whites
Pro welfare state

Oh my, where do i start?
There are lots of liberals who oppose too much government and are even white. ;)
Not KKK white, but still Caucasian.
Other than that too much FOX propaganda.
Artur13 2 | 25
26 Nov 2012  #24
Hmm, liberalism seems to have a completely different idea in theory, and action.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
26 Nov 2012  #25
There are lots of liberals who oppose too much government and are even white. ;)

Indeed. Plenty of them in Poland too.

Other than that too much FOX propaganda.

Far too much of it. They don't even understand what a liberal is or what their ideas are.

Hmm, liberalism seems to have a completely different idea in theory, and action.

Hardly. It's only Americans that get brought up on a diet of Fox News and that Limbaugh idiot that seem to have problems with understanding what a liberal is. Everyone else accepts that liberals are pro freedom.
Artur13 2 | 25
26 Nov 2012  #26
I'm sure we can all write books on how liberals are bad or good, but this thread is about the problem of Poland's population declining.

The British are in danger of becoming a minority in their own country ( by like 2066) A popular idea among British people that I have spoken to is that the government should reward people who have more children. For example if a Polish woman has 3 children, she should receive benefits.

What do you think about this idea?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
26 Nov 2012  #27
A popular idea among British people that I have spoken to is that the government should reward people who have more children. For example if a Polish woman has 3 children, she should receive benefits.

It's a terrible idea and encourages dependency on the State.

The British are in danger of becoming a minority in their own country ( by like 2066)

Not really. For a start, there's no such thing as British - most of us identify with our countries instead. Secondly, these people referred to become British very quickly - even the 1st generation.
legend 3 | 664
26 Nov 2012  #28
So much wrong in this topic.

First of all there are different types of Liberalism.
Liberalism can mean different things in say North America vs Europe.

Social liberalism - supports government regulation of economy and business
classic liberalism - opposes all government regulation of economy and business.

Edit obviously never read enough wiki or he would see that a few sentences below it says...
"According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "In the United States liberalism is associated with the welfare-state policies of the New Deal program of the Democratic administration of Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt, whereas in Europe it is more commonly associated with a commitment to limited government and laissez-faire economic policies."[13]"

Additionally Wikipedia is very left wing, as such much of it is pure *******.

Lets see...

-> free and fair elections (really? representative democracy is hardly free and fair. free and fair might be direct democracy)
->civil rights (I could write an essay why this is a joke),
-> freedom of the press (ya sure try to criticize Jews or gays or Israel on the big MSM, you wouldnt get far; the press is essentially fascist because it wont allow REAL freedom of speech)

->freedom of religion (ya give freedom to other religions at the expense of Catholicism which is more native to Poland.
In USA nativity scenes are banned in some areas, in the mean time Jews gladly parade their GIANT MENORAHS in front of the white house (sounds Stalin/Trotsky like)

->right to life (ahah liberals usually favor pro-choice" and thus are prodeath).
berni23 7 | 379
26 Nov 2012  #29
Delphdope obviously never read enough wiki or he would see that a few sentences below it says...
"According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "In the United States liberalism is associated with the welfare-state policies of the New Deal program of the Democratic administration of Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt"

I thought we were talking about Poland.

whereas in Europe it is more commonly associated with a commitment to limited government and laissez-faire economic policies."

There you go.

free and fair elections (really? representative democracy is hardly free and fair.

Everybody can vote and each vote counts the same. Whats not free and fair about that?

civil rights (I could write an essay why this is a joke)

Please do.

freedom of the press (ya sure try to criticize Jews or gays or Israel on the big MSM, you wouldnt get far; the press is essentially fascist because it wont allow REAL freedom of speech)

Articles like that are being written everyday and fortunately it is not mainstream.

freedom of religion (ya give freedom to other religions at the expense of Catholicism which is more native to Poland.

What other religions? Poland is still one of the few strongholds of Catholicism in Europe.

right to life (ahah liberals usually favor pro-choice" and thus are prodeath)

Liberals have the liberty to choose what they believe. And pro-choice is not pro-death but pro-reason. ;)

All in all you are twisting the statements to suit your believes and not very good at that.

Edit: And im sure there is something like the fascistopedia, where you can find your views of gasing Jews and rounding up gays.
4 eigner 2 | 831
26 Nov 2012  #30
Whats not free and fair about that?

As a German, you should know how it works in your country. Most of you didn't want to join the EU zone and yet, your government did it anyway, without asking you. It was the same with your currency and you know it. Before you'll get too upset, you need to know that I lived in Germany for quite some time and speak your language fluently. I don't have any problems with your people or the country itself (actually, I like it) but your system sucks just as bad as ours (since Obama is in the office anyway).


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