Des Essientes
10 Jul 2012
Des Essientes
10 Jul 2012
Food / What's more popular in Poland beer or vodka? [59]
Does it taste alot like beer, or do the lack of carbonation and the higher alcohol content overwhelm the beery taste?
Correct.... but that doesn't stop a very dedicated friend of mine from making hops infused vodka.
Does it taste alot like beer, or do the lack of carbonation and the higher alcohol content overwhelm the beery taste?
Des Essientes
13 Jul 2012
Life / What's wrong with Poland? I don't see anything. [121]
The OP never mentions the UK in his post. He mentions America:
It's so obvious that the OP isn't Polish, or he would think very differently. From trams which stink of beer and incontinence, to town hall bureaucracy, there are many things wrong with Poland - though we all know about the great things too. But he just HAD to turn it into a UK-bashing exercise, didn't he?
The OP never mentions the UK in his post. He mentions America:
The culture seems to encourage early marriage and family formation so Poland is full of Polish people instead of Arabs and Mexicans like the West. Seems like heaven on Earth to me. Although I guess I did miss the "thrill and excitement" of worrying about being shot in the face for my phone like in America, but I digress
Des Essientes
17 Jul 2012
History / Khazar migrations to Eastern Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine [106]
Wrong. Turkic peoples have inhabited some of the northernmost latitudes in Asia for thousands of years and thus they may be exceptionally pale. Finno-Ugrian peoples are also from Asia and they may be extremely pale as well. Finns are the blondest people on Earth. Yehudi is merely stereotyping all Turkic peoples as swarthy and Asiatic featured out of ignorance and nervousness about the ramifications of the Khazar conversion to Judaism for the legitimacy of the Zionist project in Palestine.
The Khazars were a turkic people and so they would have been darker than europeans and with central asian features.
Wrong. Turkic peoples have inhabited some of the northernmost latitudes in Asia for thousands of years and thus they may be exceptionally pale. Finno-Ugrian peoples are also from Asia and they may be extremely pale as well. Finns are the blondest people on Earth. Yehudi is merely stereotyping all Turkic peoples as swarthy and Asiatic featured out of ignorance and nervousness about the ramifications of the Khazar conversion to Judaism for the legitimacy of the Zionist project in Palestine.
Des Essientes
17 Jul 2012
Life / What's wrong with Poland? I don't see anything. [121]
Fuzzy is quite right and it is the moderators' fault for allowing this freak, delphiandomine, to continually engage in off-topic personal abuse of other forum members.
The fact that Harry has "no doubt" that every Polish-American who disagrees with him would have joined the Nazis in World War 2 Poland shows what a delusional, hate-filled, fanatic he is. The forum does not need this insanity.
Personal attacks, of course. Par for the course. It's the same thing over and over with you, man. I post something, express an opinion, and you tell me that the reason I'm wrong is because I was poor in Poland. It's completely ridiculous.
Fuzzy is quite right and it is the moderators' fault for allowing this freak, delphiandomine, to continually engage in off-topic personal abuse of other forum members.
Although I have no doubt that of they'd been in Poland between 1939 and 1944, they'd have joined the ranks of the very willing helpers of Hitler's executioners.
The fact that Harry has "no doubt" that every Polish-American who disagrees with him would have joined the Nazis in World War 2 Poland shows what a delusional, hate-filled, fanatic he is. The forum does not need this insanity.
Des Essientes
17 Jul 2012
History / Khazar migrations to Eastern Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine [106]
I am not a "crackpot jew hater". The Khazar story is a true one, nor do I believe that people who convert to Judaism are illegitimate.
Indeed, and the Khazars are Jews too.
The whole reason you and other crackpot jew haters keep bringing up the Khazar story is to attack the legitimacy of the Jews
The whole Khazar bullsht is a figment of the imagination.
I am not a "crackpot jew hater". The Khazar story is a true one, nor do I believe that people who convert to Judaism are illegitimate.
Jews just don't fade away.
Indeed, and the Khazars are Jews too.
Des Essientes
17 Jul 2012
History / Khazar migrations to Eastern Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine [106]
Indeed the Khazars are not forgotten in Russia. Pushkin, who is to Russia what Mickiewicz is to Poland, included a young Khazar khan named Ratmir amongst the suitors for the hand of Ludmilla in his poem Ruslan and Ludmilla and he had Ratmir act very gallantly, without exception, unlike some of her other suitors. (I highly reccomend viewing the 1972 cinematic adaptation of this poem, not just for an example of the high esteem modern Russians have for the Khazars, but also for its mindblowingly surreal sets and special effects.) So too Russian historians have very favorable views regarding the boons that the Pax Khazaria provided to the nascent Kievan Russian state in the form of trade and a buffer zone against the far less civilized Turkic peoples who would later cause so much misery for the Kievan Russ once the Khazar state declined.
The funniest thing is that I have never come across a Russian Jew with red hair or a red beard who has ever denied the possibility of being descendant of the Khazars. Most actually seem to like it. And why not, no shame in being descended from great warriors who ran one of the biggest empires in Europe to date.
Indeed the Khazars are not forgotten in Russia. Pushkin, who is to Russia what Mickiewicz is to Poland, included a young Khazar khan named Ratmir amongst the suitors for the hand of Ludmilla in his poem Ruslan and Ludmilla and he had Ratmir act very gallantly, without exception, unlike some of her other suitors. (I highly reccomend viewing the 1972 cinematic adaptation of this poem, not just for an example of the high esteem modern Russians have for the Khazars, but also for its mindblowingly surreal sets and special effects.) So too Russian historians have very favorable views regarding the boons that the Pax Khazaria provided to the nascent Kievan Russian state in the form of trade and a buffer zone against the far less civilized Turkic peoples who would later cause so much misery for the Kievan Russ once the Khazar state declined.
Des Essientes
19 Jul 2012
Life / What's wrong with Poland? I don't see anything. [121]
Your observations regarding American volunteer workers are very insightful, f stop, but the fact that you felt the need to make them in a thread titled "what's wrong with Poland?" is an unfortunate result of the shoddy moderation upon this forum which allows threads to be hijacked by an insane little gang of British expatriates.
P3undone, you are a moderator here and a Polish-American. Why don't you explain to the gang why they shouldn't engage in this behavior, and threaten them with some consequences if they persist in disrupting the forum?
There is one type of American volunteer I see often.
Your observations regarding American volunteer workers are very insightful, f stop, but the fact that you felt the need to make them in a thread titled "what's wrong with Poland?" is an unfortunate result of the shoddy moderation upon this forum which allows threads to be hijacked by an insane little gang of British expatriates.
P3undone, you are a moderator here and a Polish-American. Why don't you explain to the gang why they shouldn't engage in this behavior, and threaten them with some consequences if they persist in disrupting the forum?
Des Essientes
7 Aug 2012
Food / Are there any Polish wines worth purchasing? [65]
You are Cracovian Pawain? Is wine more popular in your region of Poland than elsewhere? I have heard that the Slovaks, who share a border with Southern Poland, are very fond of wine, whilst their fomer co-nationals, the Czechs, are the most ardent bibbers of beer on the Earth.
I drink wine every night
You are Cracovian Pawain? Is wine more popular in your region of Poland than elsewhere? I have heard that the Slovaks, who share a border with Southern Poland, are very fond of wine, whilst their fomer co-nationals, the Czechs, are the most ardent bibbers of beer on the Earth.
Des Essientes
8 Aug 2012
Food / Are there any Polish wines worth purchasing? [65]
Thank you for your answer Pawain. I suspected as much and you are right about wine drinkers cultural superiority.
Hahahahaha! Go drink some beer.
And everybody knows that wine is the most cultural drink (champagne is also wine, btw).
Thank you for your answer Pawain. I suspected as much and you are right about wine drinkers cultural superiority.
As anybody who has been to Poland will know, more wine is sold in Warsaw than anywhere else in Poland. But I guess the problem there is the 'been to Poland' bit.
Hahahahaha! Go drink some beer.
Des Essientes
8 Aug 2012
Food / What do non-Poles think about eating the following Polish foods? [1450]
is of Mexican, not Polish, origin.
sourdough bread
is of Mexican, not Polish, origin.
Des Essientes
10 Aug 2012
News / Chechen Congress in Poland, Russia frowns [90]
This situation has continued in this cyclical way for so many decades. When one reads Tolstoy's tale Hadji Murad, and compares it to the situation today, one is amazed at how little has changed in the last two centuries.
It seems Chechenya was pacified. Nothing in the news, except for sporadic reports about minor clashes in the mountains.
But the ferment is brewing and will again explode one day or another.
But the ferment is brewing and will again explode one day or another.
This situation has continued in this cyclical way for so many decades. When one reads Tolstoy's tale Hadji Murad, and compares it to the situation today, one is amazed at how little has changed in the last two centuries.
Des Essientes
29 Aug 2012
Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]
The Mongols sacked Krakow, but most Polish Mongol ancestry comes from members of the Golden Horde who were granted refuge in Lithuania after they were defeated by Tamerlane at the end of the 14th century.
The Mongols went as far as Poland
The Mongols sacked Krakow, but most Polish Mongol ancestry comes from members of the Golden Horde who were granted refuge in Lithuania after they were defeated by Tamerlane at the end of the 14th century.
Des Essientes
7 Sep 2012
News / Dirty deeds of foreign guys in Poland [128]
What an utterly repulsive act! I am glad these inhumane scumbags were arrested. British degenerates should stop using Krakow as a place to engage in depravity.
At 2 am in the Krakow Main Square two British men lured a pidgeon to come closer and then kicked it to death.
What an utterly repulsive act! I am glad these inhumane scumbags were arrested. British degenerates should stop using Krakow as a place to engage in depravity.
Des Essientes
8 Sep 2012
News / Dirty deeds of foreign guys in Poland [128]
I am not surprised that you are familiar with depravity, delphiandomine. Your posts show it.
My real name is quite Polish. You should stop trying to be an ethnologist. It requires an education that you obviously lack.
Delphiandomine's gossipy ********* posts upon this forum are yet more examples of a foreign guy behaving in a low down dirty manner while in Poland.
I assure you that your fellow countrymen (the American part, not the Ukrainian part) engage in far more depraved things than that in Poland.
I am not surprised that you are familiar with depravity, delphiandomine. Your posts show it.
your name isn't Polish anyway.
My real name is quite Polish. You should stop trying to be an ethnologist. It requires an education that you obviously lack.
Delphiandomine's gossipy ********* posts upon this forum are yet more examples of a foreign guy behaving in a low down dirty manner while in Poland.
Des Essientes
12 Sep 2012
Travel / Monuments, statues, memorials of Poland [25]
Here are two images of a statue, in Katowice, of the great Polish painter, illustrator, photographer, poet, novelist, playwright, philosopher, and explorer of inner-space Stanisław Ignacy Witkiewicz:
Here are two images of a statue, in Katowice, of the great Polish painter, illustrator, photographer, poet, novelist, playwright, philosopher, and explorer of inner-space Stanisław Ignacy Witkiewicz:
imagesCAMSMYGP.jpg
Witkacy_1.JPG
Des Essientes
19 Sep 2012
USA, Canada / What kind of American food do Poles like most? [110]
All delicious, but, although many varieties of beans are native to the New World, there are also many varieties of beans that are native to the Old World, unlike tomatoes and chili peppers which were once exclusively New World aliments.
Turkey is foul, but potatoes can be good tasting if properly prepared.
Coffee is far too acidic. It is sad to see that this disgusting beverage is provided for free in so many workplaces.
A freshly made corn tortilla is unsurpassed amongst other starchy foods for deliciousness. Although the foodstuff is more properly referred to as maize. "Corn" means any sort of edible grain and it was a word, in English, long before the discovery of the New World and its maize.
If you mean the New World stuff, then I like tomatoes, chilli peppers, all beans,
All delicious, but, although many varieties of beans are native to the New World, there are also many varieties of beans that are native to the Old World, unlike tomatoes and chili peppers which were once exclusively New World aliments.
I am not fond of turkey and potatoes.
Turkey is foul, but potatoes can be good tasting if properly prepared.
I hate coffee.
Coffee is far too acidic. It is sad to see that this disgusting beverage is provided for free in so many workplaces.
I am crazy about corn.
A freshly made corn tortilla is unsurpassed amongst other starchy foods for deliciousness. Although the foodstuff is more properly referred to as maize. "Corn" means any sort of edible grain and it was a word, in English, long before the discovery of the New World and its maize.
Des Essientes
3 Oct 2012
History / Lusatia allied with Poland? [19]
No, German culture has survived as well as it could. It was good to see Poles getting land from Germans rather than the other way around. It is called payback and it can be a ***** if you used to be the oppressor. Go cry in your strudel, Fritz.
No, German culture has survived as well as it could. It was good to see Poles getting land from Germans rather than the other way around. It is called payback and it can be a ***** if you used to be the oppressor. Go cry in your strudel, Fritz.
Des Essientes
4 Oct 2012
History / Poland's undying debt to Polonia [76]
P3undone,you are missing Grzegorz's point. He is pointing out the fact that an educated person that has studied a country's culture, history, government, etc. may actually be more informed regarding said country than some lesser educated people, even if the former isn't in said country and the latter are. You really should read his post more closely, it is quite well explained therein. You should also heed his admonition and stop fawning over presumptuous "experts" based merely upon their residency in Poland.
P3undone,you are missing Grzegorz's point. He is pointing out the fact that an educated person that has studied a country's culture, history, government, etc. may actually be more informed regarding said country than some lesser educated people, even if the former isn't in said country and the latter are. You really should read his post more closely, it is quite well explained therein. You should also heed his admonition and stop fawning over presumptuous "experts" based merely upon their residency in Poland.
Des Essientes
4 Oct 2012
History / Poland's undying debt to Polonia [76]
So, P3undone and 4 eigner, you two would answer yes to the following two questions Gregorz posed, or do "nuances" not include economics and foriegn policy? And if not what do they include and why are they important? Aren't you just mired in some romantic notion of "wisdom" being imparted from merely being present specific geographical locations?
What are your answers? Are you going to disparage book learnin' like some quaint rustics?
So, P3undone and 4 eigner, you two would answer yes to the following two questions Gregorz posed, or do "nuances" not include economics and foriegn policy? And if not what do they include and why are they important? Aren't you just mired in some romantic notion of "wisdom" being imparted from merely being present specific geographical locations?
Do you think a German expert on international relations by deafult know less about foreign policy of America than some average Joe from Nevada, just becasue he doesn't live in America
What are your answers? Are you going to disparage book learnin' like some quaint rustics?
Des Essientes
4 Oct 2012
History / Poland's undying debt to Polonia [76]
But book learning is what a rustic lacks.
Why don't you answer the questions that Gregorz posed to you and that I reposted above? I suspect it is because you know that your position is absurd. It is quite possible, dare I say probable, that educated Polonians living abroad may be better informed about the nature of Polish history, and Polish culture, than some semi-educated foreigners living in Poland and teaching English. The latter may know more about the current weather in Poland and but so what?
I'll take book learning from a rustic over book learning from some one who has never been there....
But book learning is what a rustic lacks.
Why don't you answer the questions that Gregorz posed to you and that I reposted above? I suspect it is because you know that your position is absurd. It is quite possible, dare I say probable, that educated Polonians living abroad may be better informed about the nature of Polish history, and Polish culture, than some semi-educated foreigners living in Poland and teaching English. The latter may know more about the current weather in Poland and but so what?
Des Essientes
29 Dec 2012
Food / What is your favorite Polish Vodka? [653]
I was going to answer you, kondzior, but, before I could do so, the thread you started was......
into this one, which is a thread about only Polish vodka. (You see 1.75 liter bottles of Svedka brand vodka are one sale here in Southern California and thus lately almost every home I've visited has poured it for me quite liberally. I was even going to make a Polish history reference about being "deluged" ((as Svedka is distilled in Sweden)) but, alas, someone has moved your OP here.)
Does the PF drink Vodka?
I'm asking what vodka do my fellow PF forumers drink?
I was going to answer you, kondzior, but, before I could do so, the thread you started was......
Merged
into this one, which is a thread about only Polish vodka. (You see 1.75 liter bottles of Svedka brand vodka are one sale here in Southern California and thus lately almost every home I've visited has poured it for me quite liberally. I was even going to make a Polish history reference about being "deluged" ((as Svedka is distilled in Sweden)) but, alas, someone has moved your OP here.)
Des Essientes
9 Jan 2013
Genealogy / Polish looks? [1410]
No rational person believes that a sampling of merely 20 people out of 40,000,000 gives a fair average.
No rational person believes that a sampling of merely 20 people out of 40,000,000 gives a fair average.
Des Essientes
5 Feb 2013
News / Czechs most liked by Poles! [35]
[************************** seems to know where exactly this brotherhood has come from, but somehow we know it exists [/quote]
One theory regarding this national fraternity is that the Hungarians, like the Poles, had, in comparison to other European nations, a huge percentage of their populace classified as members of the nobility. So too the Hungarians, like the Poles, granted their nobles far reaching political rights which contrasted greatly with the rest of Europe which tended towards far more autocratic political structures. These similarites may be seen as reflecting similiar national dispositions betwixt Hungarians and Poles thus acounting for the feeling of brotherhood.
[************************** seems to know where exactly this brotherhood has come from, but somehow we know it exists [/quote]
One theory regarding this national fraternity is that the Hungarians, like the Poles, had, in comparison to other European nations, a huge percentage of their populace classified as members of the nobility. So too the Hungarians, like the Poles, granted their nobles far reaching political rights which contrasted greatly with the rest of Europe which tended towards far more autocratic political structures. These similarites may be seen as reflecting similiar national dispositions betwixt Hungarians and Poles thus acounting for the feeling of brotherhood.
Des Essientes
5 Feb 2013
News / Czechs most liked by Poles! [35]
Hungarians are indeed from Asia. They arrived in Europe over a thousand years ago.
"Bohunk" is an American slang term for Central and Eastern European immigrants that was coined during the late 19th Century when they started arriving in the USA in large numbers. It is compounded from the words "Bohemian" and "Hungarian" but it was used to denote Poles and others too. In a testament to the virility of the Magyar and Slavic peoples this term was eventually shortened to become the word "hunk".
Hungarians are indeed from Asia. They arrived in Europe over a thousand years ago.
"Bohunk" is an American slang term for Central and Eastern European immigrants that was coined during the late 19th Century when they started arriving in the USA in large numbers. It is compounded from the words "Bohemian" and "Hungarian" but it was used to denote Poles and others too. In a testament to the virility of the Magyar and Slavic peoples this term was eventually shortened to become the word "hunk".
Des Essientes
15 Mar 2013
History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]
This example, with its obnoxiously feigned "mistake", in no way invalidates what Yerrick has said about the special privileges granted to Polish Jewry relative to those of the Polish peasantry. Indeed residency restrictions were also enforced by Jews against Gentiles in Poland. The documentary Stetl, about the history of the town of Bransk, revealed that Polish Gentiles had to receive special permission from the Jewish authorities in Bransk before being allowed to move into the center of that the town.
In reality during the majority of the time that Warsaw was the capital of independent Poland, Jews were not allowed to live in the city of Warsaw.
This example, with its obnoxiously feigned "mistake", in no way invalidates what Yerrick has said about the special privileges granted to Polish Jewry relative to those of the Polish peasantry. Indeed residency restrictions were also enforced by Jews against Gentiles in Poland. The documentary Stetl, about the history of the town of Bransk, revealed that Polish Gentiles had to receive special permission from the Jewish authorities in Bransk before being allowed to move into the center of that the town.
Des Essientes
15 Mar 2013
History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]
Harry, I saw the film about the history of Bransk and it said that Gentiles were required to obtain permission from the Jewish town fathers before being allowed to reside in the town's center. If you don't believe me then so be it, but you need only watch the film to be disabused of your ignorance.
Harry, in the future I would also like you to address me by my full screen name. The use of a diminutive of my screen name sounds very creepy coming from someone like you.
Harry, I saw the film about the history of Bransk and it said that Gentiles were required to obtain permission from the Jewish town fathers before being allowed to reside in the town's center. If you don't believe me then so be it, but you need only watch the film to be disabused of your ignorance.
Harry, in the future I would also like you to address me by my full screen name. The use of a diminutive of my screen name sounds very creepy coming from someone like you.
Des Essientes
15 Mar 2013
History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]
According to the documentary I saw the center of the town of Bransk was uniformly Jewish and the Polish authorities granted the leaders of the Jewish community the right to refuse residency to Polish Gentiles attempting to move into that part of the town. This doesn't mean that the Polish authorities didn't also place restriction on Jewish residency in Bransk as well. You seem to be ignorantly believing that these residency regulations are somehow mutually exclusive. They are not.
the very simple fact remains that in Bransk there was non tolerandis Judaeis and not non tolerandis christianis.
According to the documentary I saw the center of the town of Bransk was uniformly Jewish and the Polish authorities granted the leaders of the Jewish community the right to refuse residency to Polish Gentiles attempting to move into that part of the town. This doesn't mean that the Polish authorities didn't also place restriction on Jewish residency in Bransk as well. You seem to be ignorantly believing that these residency regulations are somehow mutually exclusive. They are not.
Des Essientes
15 Mar 2013
History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]
Hahahaha! I have given my word upon the forum that I saw it. Anyone can aquire the documentary and see for themselves if I am mistaken. If it matters that much to you, and, given your obsessive performance upon this forum regarding the subject of Polish Jewry, one may assume that it does, then see the documentary for yourself. But, be forewarned: The documentary is several hours long.
Are claiming that Jews were not allowed to live in Bransk? The documentary was produced by a Jew whose Jewish ancestors were from Bransk.
Wrong, Catholics could live in the center of the town if the Jewish town elders approved. That is what the documentary stated and I found it surprising, but there are a lot of things revealed in that documentary that were surprising.
You keep claiming the documentary says that that but for some reason you won't support that claim.
Hahahaha! I have given my word upon the forum that I saw it. Anyone can aquire the documentary and see for themselves if I am mistaken. If it matters that much to you, and, given your obsessive performance upon this forum regarding the subject of Polish Jewry, one may assume that it does, then see the documentary for yourself. But, be forewarned: The documentary is several hours long.
a town where non tolerandis Judaeis applied
Are claiming that Jews were not allowed to live in Bransk? The documentary was produced by a Jew whose Jewish ancestors were from Bransk.
the centre of town was an area where no Catholics could live, because only Jews could live there.
Wrong, Catholics could live in the center of the town if the Jewish town elders approved. That is what the documentary stated and I found it surprising, but there are a lot of things revealed in that documentary that were surprising.
Des Essientes
18 Mar 2013
History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]
Yes billpawl, the privilege that the Jewish elders of Bransk had in denying Gentiles the right to live in the town center of Bransk does date from the time after the partitions, but since Harry is wrong to claim that this privilege never existed then he cannot be right. Harry uses the false dichotomy fallacy in the following statement:
Who is this "we" you are speaking of Harry? None but yourself is pretending that your four possibilities are exhaustive. Why are you using the plural "we" to put forth this fallacy? Perhaps you are using the "royal we", H.N.R.I..........hhaha!
You find laughter suggestive of disrespect. Others, without a huge chip on their shoulder, may see it as an expression of amusement, and it certainly is amusing to watch the purveyor of logical fallacies put in his place.
Yehudi doesn't understand what "anachronism" means. Just because people were born into their respective social groups in medieval times in no way makes the privileges enjoyed by one group over another somehow "unreal" by modern standards.
Could it be from later on that the documentary is referencing? Could you both be right, but not talking about the same time periods?
Yes billpawl, the privilege that the Jewish elders of Bransk had in denying Gentiles the right to live in the town center of Bransk does date from the time after the partitions, but since Harry is wrong to claim that this privilege never existed then he cannot be right. Harry uses the false dichotomy fallacy in the following statement:
So we are left with four possibilities
Yes, we have established that; however there are four theoretically possible explanations for that statement (as outlined above).
Who is this "we" you are speaking of Harry? None but yourself is pretending that your four possibilities are exhaustive. Why are you using the plural "we" to put forth this fallacy? Perhaps you are using the "royal we", H.N.R.I..........hhaha!
By the way, the "Hahahaha!" adds nothing to this discussion and suggests a very disrespectful attitude.
You find laughter suggestive of disrespect. Others, without a huge chip on their shoulder, may see it as an expression of amusement, and it certainly is amusing to watch the purveyor of logical fallacies put in his place.
So to say that Jews had priviliges or advantages over other Poles is an anachronism.
Yehudi doesn't understand what "anachronism" means. Just because people were born into their respective social groups in medieval times in no way makes the privileges enjoyed by one group over another somehow "unreal" by modern standards.