Most people have never heard of Khazars because they never heard of a lot of things. Lithuania, which was part of the Polish Commonwealth has 2 surviving Khazar communities who still speak the Khazar Turkic Language. If any of you looked at my pic, I'm a stereotipical Khazar. My looks are similar to Chuvash people, Udmurts, even Turks from Northern Turkey (who didn't mix with Arabs). All of my ancestors are Jews. My last name Shagal is a variation of Segal, which an acronym for SeGan Levi- Prince of Levites or Assistant to the High Priest. This is a title given to our family for protection we provided to the Jewsih community and the Kohan that settled in our area.
After Khazaria was incorporated into Russia around 980 AD, we stayed in southern Russia till about 1200's, where we took up farming. this was the main difference between Khazar Jews and Ashkenazi in Belarus and Eastern Poland. Ashkenazi (Ashkenaz is Yidish word for German Land) were mostly city people and helds crafts such as shoe maker, taylors, silversmiths, which is a known fact that the community was very heavily weighted towards those skills, where as Khazar Jews who were mixed with Jews from Byzantine Empire (Romaniots) and Persian Jews tended to be more farm and ranching oriented. You can see our Clans lifestyle in my Great Uncles paintings (Mark Chagall) which depicts a very country lifestyle with animals places in most of the paintings to symbolize how much our lifestyle revolved around animals and farming.
for those who doubt my true identity I would like to post several links to my families groups and a Xazar group which I moderate. Just because you are not familiar with something doesn't make it false;)
DesEsseintes: The links you posted did not disprove the OP's claim that he is of Khazar descent. As anyone reading the quotations from them that I posted can see. Jon367 why do you still insist that they do? Can't you read? You are unable to admit when you are wrong and it is really hilarious!
No Dave. The links completely refute the old myth that the Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of the Khazars. There a by the way many more DNA studies carried out within the Jewish community.
Nothing you said disproves any claim of Khazar descent. Studies conducted by American Jewish geneology research groups point to 5% of Jewish population having Khazar DNA, it's the Q1b haplogroup and possible R1 haplogroup. 5% is about 1,000,000 people!
quote=jon357]They are obscure. Very little is known about them compared to other societies of that Period
What other societies of the period are you referring to? I suspect that you have none in mind and you are just claiming this due to your inability to admit that you were wrong (the frequent reader of this forum has seen you demonstrate this inability numerous times and it is hilarious!). The Khazars are known via the Kievan Primary Chronicle as well as through Byzantine and Arab sources.
jon357: These studies (among others) refute the discredited Khazar theory which you're trying to promote for reasons unknown.
I am not promoting the Khazar theory. I am saying that you are lying when you claim that it is a "racist" theory and that you are lying when you claim that 'science' has discredited it. The first link you provided says the following:
The investigation of the genetic relationship among three Jewish communities revealed that Kurdish and Sephardic Jews were indistinguishable from one another, whereas both differed slightly, yet significantly, from Ashkenazi Jews. The differences among Ashkenazim may be a result of low-level gene flow from European populations and/or genetic drift during isolation. Admixture between Kurdish Jews and their former Muslim host population in Kurdistan appeared to be negligible. In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors.
The reader should note that this study shows that there are indeed Jews with Turkic ancestry and thus leaves open the possibility that some Jews living today are indeed descendants of the Turkic Khazars as is the belief in the OP's family. So much for your claim that the first study you linked to refutes the Khazar theory, Jon357, although it does "refute the discredited Khazar theory" in the sense that it refutes its discreditation, but I suspect that you contradicted what you intended to say out of carelessness. (you surely can't have posted over 1,100 times in this forum in less than 4 months while choosing all of your words carefully.)
The second link you posted says the following:
Some genetic studies suggest that Jewish populations show substantial non-Jewish admixture and the occurrence of mass conversion of non-Jews to Judaism
Again this refutes your claim that science has utterly refuted theories that claim that many of today's Jews are descendants of converts, such as the Khazars, jon357.
Your third link is a NY Times article about a study that does claim to refute the role of mass conversion in making the modern Jewish genome. So I guess we'd have to say that "the third time was the charm" for you, Jon357, you tried, and you tried, and you finally posted a link that, sort of, supports what you say about the refutation of the Khazar theory. Congratulations!
I do wish to take issue with the fact that you seem to be calling the OP, and his family, racists for believing that they have Khazar ancestry and that is just plain rude. Why would it be racist to believe that many of the Khazars that converted to Judaism stuck with their adopted faith and came West out of the Pontic Steppe? History shows that even before the 12th Century a portion of the Jewish Khazars, called Kabars, went West with the Magyars and settled in Pannonia. I suspect the reason that you call the Khazar theory "racist" is contained in the OP's post:
genecps: The only reason a lot of Jews claim that Khazars are a myth is because it would deligitimize the Jews claim to Israel, but at 5% of the Jewish population it is hardly a threat.
Jon357, you are lying, and being rude, upon this thread out of loyalty to the Zionist project and it doesn't matter to you if Khazar ancestry is only attributable to one out of twenty modern Jews. You are an extremely zealous Zionist that can't allow any claim that some of Europe's Jews are descendants of Japheth rather than Shem.[/quote]
Des Essientes, I agree completely with everything you say! 2 sides of this equation have both put out more bullshit on this subject then anything. On one side the Arabs claim that most European Jews are Khazars, which is bullshit because you can easily tell the visible Semitic features as well as the proven genetic studies that point otherwise. And on the Jewish side many reject any possible link to Khazars 100% out of the notion that it would lessen their claim to Israel. Both sides have a completely biased agenda that gets rejected more and more especially with the increasing rate of genetic testing which supports the claim that 1 in 20 Jews is genetically of similar blood line to Bulgars, Hungarians, and Chuvash, all while living among Eastern Polish, Belarus, and West Ukrainian lands. If the Khazar theory was completely incorrect and the reason most of us white, red headed Jews from those lands are that way is because of mixing with the local Caucasian people... how come we do not share DNA with them, but instead with groups that are known to have been related to Khazars?!