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Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry?


sjeffreys 1 | 2    
22 Jul 2008  #1
Is there any evidence that polish people have mongolian ancestry? I feel like I have some of their facial characteristics, as well as my father. Just curious.
JustysiaS 13 | 2,241    
22 Jul 2008  #2
or maybe you simply have some asian ancestors...
osiol 55 | 3,923    
22 Jul 2008  #3
There are some people in Poland of Tatar ancestry (within whom there may be some Mongolian admixture). They form a small minority in certain places. By and large, the Mongolian presence in the Polish gene pool would be best described as minimal to almost non-existent.

There is, however, a difference between the terms Mongolian (the nationality of ethnic group), Mongolic (a group of languages and the speakers thereof) and Mongoloid (a racial type which is not particularly clearly defined, as none of the racial groups really are, particularly considering how blurred they can be at the edges and how much variety there can be amongst them).

As for the kind of facial features you mentioned, there is something within certain Eastern European facial characteristics that may be shared with dwellers of the other end of the continent. I think it is more noticeable in Russians and Finns than in Poles, and it may be to do with some common heritage of some Northern Asian groups of people with some Eastern European groups, stretching back into prehistory.
McCoy 27 | 1,283    
22 Jul 2008  #4
Mongolian admixture in Poland The first example of anti-Diego(b) found in a Polish woman with the Di(a+b-) phenotype and haemolytic disease of the newborn not requiring treatment.

dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000376.html
OP sjeffreys 1 | 2    
22 Jul 2008  #5
The last part makes sense. I'm only 1/4 pole but look very much like my grandmother who is full pole, and my father who is half. But whenever my dad is in Russia they think he is native russian.

We have high cheekbones, dark small squinty eyes, sloping noses with a little ball on the end, thin lips and sort of blocky shaped heads. I don't know if those are Polish traits or not. I have no asian ancestors.
rock - | 460    
22 Jul 2008  #6
Tatars are Turkic. A Turk can understand a Tatar when he/she speaks but can not understand a Mongolian.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars
McCoy 27 | 1,283    
22 Jul 2008  #7
from wikipedia:

...a fusion of Mongol and Turkic elements took place, and the invaders of Rus and Hungary became known to Europeans as Tatars...

some tatars look more asian and some more european - first two guys from the right:

about polish tatars and golden orde ( in polish) :

planetaislam.com/historia/tatarzy/orda.html
OP sjeffreys 1 | 2    
22 Jul 2008  #8
What information do I need to begin searching back my family tree? I have very little information. And, would it even be traceable back that far? To the Tatars?
Brzoska - | 2    
26 Aug 2008  #9
The Mongolians invaded Poland several times.Of course alot of Polish people have Mongolian ancestry somewhere down the line.My mother looks Mongolian,and she is Polish.Turkish people,Jewish people,Mongolians,and most of all Slavic people make up the ancestry of the Polish,as well as some other groups.
SSpringer 5 | 55    
26 Aug 2008  #10
i have been told that the Ukranians have Mongolian in them? is that true?
McCoy 27 | 1,283    
26 Aug 2008  #11
yeap, every ukrainian has one little mongol inside.
ArcticPaul 38 | 233    
26 Aug 2008  #12
What information do I need to begin searching back my family tree?

Very few families know their tree as far back as that.
European aristocrats may but very few others do.
SSpringer 5 | 55    
27 Aug 2008  #13
yeap, every ukrainian has one little mongol inside.

ok cool good to know... the family story is that we are decendents of ganghis khan
Sasha 2 | 1,083    
27 Aug 2008  #14
Don't take it seriously. It's quite the same as saying every Pole keeps a Mongolian or Jew inside.
SSpringer 5 | 55    
27 Aug 2008  #15
story was passed down from my great great grand parents who came from the Ukraine.. so im trying to find out about it lol
ArcticPaul 38 | 233    
28 Aug 2008  #16
DNA would show your ancestral makeup.....but I wouldn't know to start arranging it?
SSpringer 5 | 55    
28 Aug 2008  #17
i dont know much about DNA testing, My great great grandparents on my dads moms,dads side. any info is great :)
Sasha 2 | 1,083    
28 Aug 2008  #18
story was passed down from my great great grand parents who came from the Ukraine.. so im trying to find out about it lol

I simply meant that

yeap, every ukrainian has one little mongol inside.

was a crap.

Are you trying to find out who are you genetically? Then DNA-test is an appropriate solution.
McCoy 27 | 1,283    
29 Aug 2008  #19
Are you trying to find out who are you genetically?

I already know. pure polish sarmatia, ruski kalmuku
SSpringer 5 | 55    
29 Aug 2008  #20
Are you trying to find out who are you genetically? Then DNA-test is an appropriate solution.

Do you recommend any specific test? like i stated earlier.. I dont know anything about DNA testing :)

The Ukraine/mongolian is on.. My dads,moms,dads side :)
Papagena    
6 Sep 2008  #21
I've also always suspected that our Polish-on-four-sides ancestry had a little Tatar or Jewish or something "different" thrown in for good luck. My dad was the spittin' image of the second guy from the right in that photo. And his sister had high cheekbones, slanted eyes, the whole nine yards. I see no one on this site gives their surname; let's just say that my dad's surname--which we've traced back to the 1600s in the part of Poland his side comes from--is a given name in Turkish-speaking countries. His family is from the northeast corner, right where Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, etc., all come together. Which is Poland's melting pot. And to top it off, my great-grandfather was illegitimate; he got the family name, but may or may not have had the family genes, so he's a real wild card. Do I think all this is very, very cool? You bet!
Esti Veneti    
19 Sep 2008  #22
Hello all of you ...,
I guess, the starting point should be that all so called "white" race is just an offspring of so-called "yellow" one. SO, Welcome TO CHINA AGAIN !

If you think, there is something like a "Polish race or genes"...well...you should know, or remind yourself, that Slovians came to nowadays Polish area not sooner than in V-VI century, together with Awars, Sarmatians, and...most of that probably with Huns...On site had been already present Goths, Celts, Romans, etc....By the way, do you know, that Jan III Sobieski, the former Polish king , has a Turkish grandmother ?, that's why he's got brown eyes; but he couldn' find a wife in Poland....

Ciao,
Esti Veneti

...and, remember (till your better times): Polish and Hungarians ARE nephews...That's true, not a proverb.

Ciao
southern 76 | 7,108    
19 Sep 2008  #23
Is there any evidence that polish people have mongolian ancestry?

No.
Lodz_The_Boat 33 | 1,534    
19 Sep 2008  #24
.Of course alot of Polish people have Mongolian ancestry somewhere down the line.My mother looks Mongolian,and she is Polish

No.

Yes sir, there is evidence. Unless you have seen the Polish populace closely...

The North Easterns have a big percentage.. its not only visible but its even feelable :). The tatars as mentioned here... are on Mongoloid ancestry. There are semi-tataristic people (christians... but cross with tatar man/woman as ancestor).

The Polish Tatars however (Moslem or Christian) are more Polish than mongoloid (perhaps... 70/30 or 80/20). But still... the ancestry is there.

The whole of Poland... I would say... 60% of or population have some kind of Mongoloid ancestry... Due to the history we have with them... and their most obvious influences.

Good luck in your search
Esti Veneti    
20 Sep 2008  #25
Hello Lodz_The_Boat !
I agree with You, with one (last but not least...) exception...: all people here and there talk about ancestors like it were only down till grandparents, like the world begun before The II World War...

I mean, that, for example, if one of my grandmothers or grandfathers was Tatar (and the rest of any other genotype): than I should have some 25 % of Tatarian genes in my total genes pool; but: what if it happened 500 years ago ? Or 1500 years ago ? What would be a percentage ???

Moreover, it's not the same: Mongols and Tatars, even as a nationality or e gene pool. Tatars were like soldiers of subjugated countries (say: Krym and Greek colonies, Ukraina. Moldavia, etc.); so, Tatars could be either brown, white, tall or short...It is also possible, that some Greeks or Armenians were "Tatars" soldiers of a Chan (Hun). So, please don't say: 70/30 or even 80/20, unless you mean somebody who has a Tatar (or Mongol or anybody) GRANDPARENT ancestor.

Ciao
Lodz_The_Boat 33 | 1,534    
20 Sep 2008  #26
70/30 or even 80/20, unless you mean somebody who has a Tatar (or Mongol or anybody) GRANDPARENT ancestor.

friend... they LOOK like a tatar! That why I say... I can say from 10 hands away who is from the NorthEast of Poland! lol!

The way they talk, walk... look... allll is easy to trace! I am a native here....not many of the PF members can say that about themselves though
konik    
20 Sep 2008  #27
friend... they LOOK like a tatar! That why I say... I can say from 10 hands away who is from the NorthEast of Poland! lol!

BS !!! :)
southern 76 | 7,108    
20 Sep 2008  #28
The whole of Poland... I would say... 60% of or population have some kind of Mongoloid ancestry

No,the Mongols have the classic mongolic spot in a high percentage of the population.Also shape of eyes and nose is different.No relationship to Poles.

I have seen some Russians mixed but no Poles.
Esti Veneti    
20 Sep 2008  #29
Yeah, friend, it could be !
Maybe it's because of so-called "Wisła" action after The II World War, when hundreds thousand of people were moved from Ukraina border with Poland to "new lands" on North-east, North-west and South-west of nowadays Poland...

Some Ukrainians may be prsumably Tatars - others are, indeed.

Ciao
Lodz_The_Boat 33 | 1,534    
20 Sep 2008  #30
They are from the times of the teutonic knights... and they allied with the mainstream polish people in the dark ages.

They are preety much mixed. Such a mixture... that calling them apart needs an expert polish eye :)

No relationship to Poles.

dont be so sure...

This is a flag used by the Union of Polish Tatars (Zwiazek Tatarow Polskich or Polonya Tatar Birlik), the foremost organization of the remnants of a once prosperous and influential ethno-religious group of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. From feared invaders in the XIII Century, the Tatars evolved into one of the most patriotic elements of the Polish nation. Treated with respect and equality, allowed complete religious freedom, they served with enthusiasm and numerous sacrifices their new fatherland. Over the years most of them lost their language and even the religion of their fathers by blending into Polish nobility and general population. Wars, partitions and border changes affected them severely, and today only about a few hundred thousand remain faithful to their tradition and Islam. But their involvement in epic struggles in defense of Poland, from the wars with the Teutonic Knights to fierce resistance against German-Soviet invasion of 1939 entitle them a special place in the society.

However, the Polish tatars are actually not all moslems. Many of them are Christians ... a big portion of them are very much crossed ... and are difficult to trace, unless seen with a very Polish eye.

These people are the most gallant members of the Polish Army. Have been the most prized possession. Their loyalty and commitment is reported to be breathtaking.


  • Polish-Tatar Flag. Another accepted flag of Poland.



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