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Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry?


Miloslaw 6 | 3,027
24 Oct 2018 #181
How difficult is it to trace one's cultural genealogy?
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
24 Oct 2018 #182
I'm not certain.
TheOther 6 | 3,818
24 Oct 2018 #183
The accuracy and value of the tests vary. One will tell you that you originated in Poland while the other will claim that your ancestors came from Scandinavia. They don't tell you about the Deluge.

How difficult is it to trace one's cultural genealogy?

You will need a lot of time if you want to do it accurately. Church books were often destroyed, some ancestors were born out of wedlock - just to name a few roadblocks. Expect a few decades of work. If you want some tips, let me know and I'm happy to help.
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
24 Oct 2018 #184
Amen, TheOther!
gregy741 4 | 1,204
24 Oct 2018 #185
mongols were physically present on territory of Poland only once and for a very short time...few months in 13 century..
even in Russia,which was held and occupied by the mongols for over 100 years ,genetic add on is almost no existent.
and even if there was any significant add on of mongolian dna in 13 century,it would be "watered down" massively since then.
it is clearly bite thread.someone wanted to insult poles.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
24 Oct 2018 #186
I wonder if that insult would work the other way around too....Mongols with polish genes...some souvenir a rider brought back to the steppe...
gregy741 4 | 1,204
24 Oct 2018 #187
fist of all.The mongols had very specific way of holding territories..they never kept armies present on them or forced any cultural or genetic changes.

they would conquer territory and subjected them by terror but allowing them to rule themselves as long as they pay tribute.
they would merely sent envoys to extract tribute or army if city or ruler refuse to pay.
beside,their empire was multiethnical and very short lived
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
24 Oct 2018 #188
Wonder whether "Khan" of "Genghis Khan" might have a connection with the identical Arab surname "Khan", such as "Ali Khan".
Any ideas?
Miloslaw 6 | 3,027
25 Oct 2018 #189
The Mongols invaded and ruled India,Pakistan and part of the middle east from the 13th century.
So yes,I believe there is a strong connection altough I don't really know the history myself.
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
25 Oct 2018 #190
Thought so. Didn't seem like much of a stretch either. Thanks!
JackJack
25 Dec 2019 #191
Eastern Europeans have Mongoloid premixture and Western Europeans have Negroid premixture, naturally living closer to Africa/Mediterranean.
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
26 Dec 2019 #192
Except for the rare intermarriage cases, traditionally in France or England, I've never noticed Negroid features in Western Europeans, even among native Sicilians whom I've met and who have typically jet black hair and eyes!

More likely a slightly Asiatic appearance among Poles, Ukrainians or Russians than African fearures among Western Europeans.
By "Western", I presume you're excluding the Scandinavians or Northern Europeans, such as the Germans, the Flemish or the Dutch.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,579
27 Dec 2019 #193
They wouldn't have negroid features, they'd have asiatic/mongoloid type features...

And yes there are some Poles, Ukranians and other E Euros that still have a tinge of that DNA. Some Poles, Ukranians and Russians have darker, more olive looking skin than the typical cream white. Some even have epicanthic folds... its more common in Ukraine and Russia though than Poland and the other W and Central Slavic countries.
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
27 Dec 2019 #194
Darker complected or "olive-skinned" Poles are more than not of either Sinti-Roma or perhaps even of non-Slavic extraction.
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 436
28 Dec 2019 #195
Where do you find those invisible "olive-skinned", darker complected, individuals, not in today's Poland? Dark skinned, olive complected is a rarity.
Besides what is your obsession, with trying to prove that Poles are half Mongols, I am not sure you realize you are relentless in your unexplainable chase of blatant falsehood. If you are interested in dark-complected Europeans, Start with Portugal, Spain, Italy, Grace, France, Romania, Albania. You will find more dark people in Ireland than Poland, for god's sake. Redheads are , by far more common in Poland than olive-skinned
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
29 Dec 2019 #196
No obsession, merely historical facts based upon known transmigration of peoples over hundreds to thousands of years, that's all.
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 436
29 Dec 2019 #197
No obsession, merely historical facts based upon known

From reading, many of your previous posts, I assume you have been to Poland, at least for a visit, so I ask you again where you encounter those olive-skinned, dark-complected individuals? Ask any Pole, and you will be surprised that above mention individuals are indeed rare, scarce. Poles especially new, generation with access to better nutrition, are undistinguishable from Germans or Austrians. No wonder I get slightly annoyed when foreigners are trying to tell me what I am and how I look. Coming from you, especially with theories straight from Mein Kampf sounds strange indeed
JakeRyan
29 Dec 2019 #198
^no way, Polish females are on average much more beautiful than Czech, German, or Austrian ones and on par with Slovak ones.
kaprys 3 | 2,441
30 Dec 2019 #199
Far more people were slaughtered during the invasions than conceived.
Not to mention, there were other invasions and wars in Poland that lasted much longer than the Mongol invasions.
And with all due respect to the victims of any war, not all rapes result in conception. Lots ended with the death of the women -as sad as it is.

One may also wonder what the fate of a child of mixed origin conceived as a result of a war rape in the Middle Ages would have been.
Beaskidoo
31 Dec 2019 #200
My surname is Kremski. Great grandfather Jacob from Pilzno born 1839. Died in USA. Baptized catholic. I have no Jewish DNA per testing. Am wondering about the meaning and origin. Krymski means Crimea doesn't it? Is this a common surname? Any particular geographical location in Poland where it is more common? Since great grandfather was from Galicia could there be any connection with Tatar ancestry?
kaprys 3 | 2,441
1 Jan 2020 #201
But it's Kremski not Krymski -might be related but I don't know.
As for its popularity, it's not very common -roughly 350 people called Kremski /Kremska.nowadays it appears throughout Poland.
Kremska
nlp.actaforte.pl:8080/Nomina/Ndistr?nazwisko=Kremska
Kremski
nlp.actaforte.pl:8080/Nomina/Ndistr?nazwisko=Kremski+
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
2 Jan 2020 #202
Quite untrue, przelotnyptak.
I base anything I post on thoughtful, considered observation. Certain generalization, as with stereotypes, do have a historical
basis in fact:-)
kaprys 3 | 2,441
2 Jan 2020 #203
@Lyzko
What historical fact?
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
3 Jan 2020 #204
Simply review my posts and you'll have already answered your own question.
kaprys 3 | 2,441
3 Jan 2020 #205
I have. I see no historical facts in your posts.
Will you please be more precise?
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
4 Jan 2020 #206
What is inaccurate in my posts, pray tell?
Bet you can't name a single thing.
dnageneticsphd
5 Jan 2020 #207
The answer is no.

I cannot believe that, giving that we have detailed genetic studies of populations since the Mesolithic and the Neolithic, that there is even this question being asked as if it was mysterious, hypothetical and up for a debate, whereas all the data is out there.

The Polish genetic make up was formed and stabilized in the late Iron Age and unchanged in any significant way since. That being said, of course there are individual Poles who might have Scottish, German, Dutch, Swedish, Ashkenazi Jewish, French, Italian or Tatar/Turkish derived ancestry, but that would be on individual family level and not on macro-genetic population level.

Contemporary Poles are basically the mix of the following meta-populations of Western Eurasia:
WHG - Western Hunter Gatherers, The Mesolithic Europeans, contributing approximately 25-30% of the ancestral autosomal dna
ANE - Ancient North Eurasians, the metapopulation of R1-M173 y-chromosome, contributing approximately 20%-25% of the ancestral autosomal dna
CHG - Caucasus Hunter Gatherers, the metapopulation which together with ANE created the EHG (Eastern Hunter Gatherers), contributing another 20%
EEF - Early Neolithic Farmers or Early European Farmers, basically the Anatolian and Levantine farmers during the Neolithic that all Europeans have dna from, contributing 20%-25% in the case of Poland
kaprys 3 | 2,441
5 Jan 2020 #208
@dnageneticsphd
And that's an accurate post.

@Lyzko
Your posts were based on 'look at Duda's beefy face' or something like that. It's not precise. It's not a fact. I'm sorry.
dnageneticsphd
5 Jan 2020 #209
@kaprys
The more robust phenotypes, including but not limited to broad cranial types, are the derivatives of indigenous WHG-derivative populations as well as the incoming Bronze Age populations derived from ANE. Meanwhile, East Eurasian admixture in Poland from any source, including the Tatars or Kalmyks, is practically non-existent at <0.5% at macro-population level, which in statistical analysis can even be attributed to marginal error.

It is well studied and there is plenty of Archaeological and Genetic research published on the topic by leading academics. I would recommend for @Lyzko and anyone else in this thread without any prior knowledge of Genetics to watch, among other scholars, Dr Johannes Krause from Max Planck Institute in his lecture called "Ancient Human Genomes, Present-Day Europeans" Link: youtube.com/watch?v=Dk65TbJRN_A

Frequent academic peer-reviewed articles are being published on Nature, often available for free, by leading international experts. For example, in May 2019 there was a major paper published about Eastern Germanic Iron Age genome in present-day Poland with particular focus on Ostro-Gothic migration in the Iron Age. Link: nature.com/articles/s41598-019-43183-w

To conclude, in plain and simple words in case of any doubt, there is no "Mongolian ancestry in Poland".
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
5 Jan 2020 #210
To my knowledge, my comments in that regard were merely direct observations, nothing more, nothing less. Do you need "research" to be able to judge whether somebody's nose has wart or not??!

LOL

There has been evidence that the Turkic invasion of Eastern Europe at around the era of King Jan Sobieski during the 17th century surely did' leave traces of Asiatic influence. This is a historical fact.


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