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Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry?


z_darius 14 | 3,968
4 Aug 2009 #91
first of all Mongol (sensu-stricte) raids on Poland (or say a Mongol raid on Poland) happened in 1249 (siege of Kraków, battle of Legnica)

I believe the siege of Krakow was in 1240 and Legnica 1241.
gumishu 11 | 5,241
4 Aug 2009 #92
ok - I got it from the top of my head ;) you are perhaps right I haven't checked it before writing - just remembered 124 thing ;)
gasco - | 3
6 Aug 2009 #93
I am trying to find out the same thing. My son's 1/2 sister tested her genetics and it confirms that she has Asian genes and both her parents are Polish.
Eaglewhite
9 Aug 2009 #94
Hi all

I wrote in the section "Are there any tartars in here / poland"

That I had a Y DNA result placing me in the Q Halogroup of the Y from my late Polish father.

The only way that got into me according to the latest thinking is through the Tartar invasions of southern Poland and the ransacking of Krakow and the surrounding area.

My late father and his family come from about 25 miles or so south west of Krakow

So a Polish female ancestor some how meet a Tartar male during the 13th century

i meant the section "ANY POLISH TARTARS HERE?
Bondo
3 Nov 2009 #95
I'm a basic looking nordic caucasian. My maternal grandfather was full Polish. His parents were from Poland. His mother had a fairly distinctive east asian look, though also caucasian too. My uncle, son of the grandfather, has a somewhat distinctive east asiatic look, particularly noticeable when he was a child. The maternal grandmother was basic western nordic European caucasian.

My mom and Uncle look substantially different, my mom doesn't have any of the asiatic features. My grandfather has subtler east asiatic features than my uncle, even though he is the genetic father of my uncle, and also of my mother. Same genetic parents for both my mom and uncle.

When the national geographic was giving DNA testing for people, my grandfather had his DNA tested, and the distinctive east asiatic markers were found, as we expected.
Polishfriend
16 Jul 2010 #96
During the Mongol invasions of 1200, much rape took place and many of the Polish population was killed. The Mongols suddenly withdrew, due to death of their Khan in Mongolia. History has it that over 300,000 + mixed mongol/european polish childern were born. There was much debate at the time about what to do with them (due to the trauma involving their birth). The Polish Church begged the population to accept them, because they were sinless children and the population had been decimated due to the invasions. This was done.

Not very surprisingly, the children grew up to be expert horsemen (due to their Mongolian heritage) and soldiers. The later generations formed the famous Polish Cavalry, which helped defeat the Ottoman Turks at Vienna in the 1400s. The Cavalry wore strange helmets the made an eriee shreiking noise, when they charged and struck terror into the Turks. Poles are known as 'Gallant Poles', due to their bravery and elan in battle.

Polish people are a very good looking people, some with high cheekbones and almond shaped eyes, due to the mixed ancestry. In my humble opinion, Poland has among the most beautiful women in the world.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
16 Jul 2010 #97
History has it that over 300,000 + mixed mongol/european polish childern were born. There was much debate at the time about what to do with them (due to the trauma involving their birth). The Polish Church begged the population to accept them, because they were sinless children and the population had been decimated due to the invasions. This was

it seems improbable considering that the invading army was I am led to believe only 30 000 strong, and a woman only has a 30% chance of falling pregnant after intercourse, and considering that not every single soldier was out to rape.

could you provide more information? Especially about the second part with the church.
Ironside 49 | 10,369
16 Jul 2010 #98
During t

its some fairy tales
Jenny_Irishgree - | 3
17 Jul 2010 #99
Yes, they have (when you know where is mongoly and Poland...) and i'm sure, us, Irish have it too, we're all linked i saw a lot of polish people with mongolian characteristics.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
17 Nov 2010 #100
History has it that over 300,000 + mixed mongol/european polish childern were born.

Where do you get this from?
vetala - | 382
17 Nov 2010 #101
History has it that over 300,000 + mixed mongol/european polish childern were born.

But Poland's total population at that time was a little over a million. If 1/3 of the population were half-mongol, we'd all be VERY visibly mixed-race today.
POLENGGGs 2 | 150
27 Nov 2010 #102
I wouldn't say that some Poles might have Mongolian ancestry but I would say that some Poles might have Mongolian physical characteristics due to the invasions led by Genghis Khan and his sons into Eastern Europe and Poland - and no one would ever know if the soldiers married some of the original Poles and have children.

Exactly, spot-on champ !
I do not know why are all these people, supposedly anti-nazi, using nazi methods of thinking when it comes to a group of people.
Poles do not worship blood purity, they do not measure noses, nor do they euthanise subjects who would not fit 'mould'.

When will people get this thru to their clouded minds - even Polish nationalists will go as far as accepting Jewish Poles as POLES full-stop.
Baydlag - | 2
9 May 2011 #103
Modern tatars should have little Mongolian gen. Their main ancestors were Volga Bulgars and Kipchaks.
Piast Poland 3 | 182
9 May 2011 #104
I can say from 10 hands away who is from the NorthEast of Poland! lol!

I dont think so, Nearly my whole family is from that area, including Belarus/Lithuania region and none of us look like that. Neither does anyone that I recall.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
31 May 2011 #105
No Poles do not have C or O haplogroups like Mongolians or Tatars. Neither do Ukrainians or Russians.

However 9 percent of Mongolians are R1a.

Likely from Mongolians capturing Slavs & Or Central Asians.

Or Ancient Indo-Europeans like Western Chinese Tocharians mixing with Mongolians who came from near Ukraine, Polish, Russia area.
GrzegorzK
31 May 2011 #106
Its possible that some modern Polish people have some mongol inside them, it's also possible that the lochness monster exists. I'd say there is a less than 50% chance that Poles have some mongol in them. Even during mongol empire they would have retreated south and west preventing any mixing
Myatska - | 6
13 Apr 2012 #107
My grandfather's parents were both originally from Poland,and he definately kooked Asian,with dark yellowish brown skin,and he was short,and did not look White at all
Ironside 49 | 10,369
14 Apr 2012 #108
and he definately kooked Asian,with dark yellowish brown skin,and he was short,and did not look White at all

Don't say ! What wrong with you people ? It is as somebody would wonder are you Americans all black? My grandfather had a dark skin and his parents where from the USA!

Do you see error of your way, now?
El Gordo
14 Apr 2012 #109
What wrong with you people ?

Ignorancy.That's all,nothing to be upset about.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
14 Apr 2012 #110
Its possible that some modern Polish people have some mongol inside them, it's also possible that the lochness monster exists.

That some modern Polish people are descended from member of the Golden Horde is not only possible it is an accepted fact. A Lithuanian grand duke named Witold, who was the cousin of the first Lithuanian king of Poland, was a backer of the Golden Horde in its struggle with the forces of Tamerlane, and when Tamerlane defeated the Golden Horde this grand duke allowed the members of the Golden Horde that survived the defeat to settle in Lithuania. The following is from an article by Dr. Marzena Godzińska titled "Polish Tartars":

The beginnings of the Tatar settlement in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania occurred in the 14th and early 15th centuries, but especially during the reign of Grand Duke Witold, the cousin of the Polish king, Wladislaw Jagiello. From the second half of the 14th century, power struggles began to arise in the Golden Horde that had developed from the clan of Jochi (Czyngyz Khan's eldest son.) Pretenders to the Khan's throne often came to solicit the support of Lithuania, or, with their families and followers seek asylum within its boundaries.
Today, the majority of the descendants of Tatar families in Poland can trace their descent from the noble status of the early Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
From the beginning of the 15th century, the Tatar army participated in all of the wars of the Polish-Lithuanian state. They began their struggles in the Great War against the Teutonic Order in the years 1409-1410. At that time it was a very war of survival for Poland and Lithuania and, to the present day, the victory at the Battle of Grunwald is one of the basic elements of historical consciousness for all Poles, including those of Tatar descent.

angelfire.com/jazz/ntstar/history.htm
One illustrious Pole descended from Tartars is Poland's first Nobel Literature Lauriate Henryk Sienkiewicz:



joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
14 Apr 2012 #111
Poles would seem to be a mixture of Germanic & Nordic strains along with an admixture of whatever indigenous peoples who populated Carpathian region.

'Mongol' strain would derive from Khazars, Guz, Bulgars & little bit Tartar...Inter-marriage would have wiped out many 'pure' strains.
NorthMancPolak 4 | 648
14 Apr 2012 #112
Where do you get this from?

Probably from the same source which states that "most Polish women prefer black c*ck" - i.e., false opinion presented as fact (as is usual on PF) by schoolboys who know nothing about Poles. ;)
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
14 Apr 2012 #113
false opinion presented as fact

Are you claiming that the fact that some Poles are indeed descendants of the Golden Horde is false opinion? If you are then you are wrong.
Vladdy
28 Aug 2012 #114
I am of mixed Ukrainian, Serbian and Slovenian ancestry, with the Ukrainian part being the most expressed one, since I look like my great-grandfather who was Ukrainian with some polish ancestry. My family comes from western Ukraine, Ternopil oblast, from a village couple of kilometer outside Ternopil. I was just wondering, but do ukrainians have mongol genes inside them? I know I need a DNA test, and I will do it eventually, but answer please?

Thanks!
jon357 63 | 15,216
29 Aug 2012 #115
There are perhaps as many Scots and English with Mongol ancestry as Poles. Queen Elizabeth of Hungary, whose daughter married the Kings of both Scotland and England was a descendant of the Mongols. She has millions of descendants.
Barney 14 | 1,472
29 Aug 2012 #116
but do ukrainians have mongol genes inside them?

Yes and cabbage genes, grass genes, mouse genes and so on.
legend 3 | 664
29 Aug 2012 #117
The Mongols went as far as Poland (judging from the gif on wiki it only touched parts of Poland)
There are probably descendants of Mongols. But I would guess nations like Ukraine and Russia have a higher percentage.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
29 Aug 2012 #118
The Mongols went as far as Poland

The Mongols sacked Krakow, but most Polish Mongol ancestry comes from members of the Golden Horde who were granted refuge in Lithuania after they were defeated by Tamerlane at the end of the 14th century.
jon357 63 | 15,216
29 Aug 2012 #119
Yes and cabbage genes, grass genes, mouse genes and so on.

Indeed. DNA isn't heritage - it's biology. I'd even go further and say it doesn't tell the whole story about ancestry.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
30 Aug 2012 #120
but most Polish Mongol ancestry

Wouldn't it be interesting if one of our forum members actually had a genuine family tree done up that could properly trace their ancestry back to some Mongol or Tatar individual/family. What about yourself Des? Any Tatar ancestors?

I'd even go further and say it doesn't tell the whole story about ancestry.

In the sense that we are also made up of what our immediate environment bestows on us?


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