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Terrible past for the Jews in Poland?



jasondmzk    
11 Mar 2012  #91

I go where I want. And if I don't like where I go, I change it. By the very force of my will. Is this the modus operandi of all Jews? Maybe. I hope so.


yehudi 1 | 436    
12 Mar 2012  #92

or more probably it is yet another example of pathetic trolling.

Definitely trolling. Every now and then, when things get quiet on PF, someone tries to start an argument by bringing in the anti-semitism issue. I don't see anything new or interesting in this discussion.

If someone has anything original to say about Polish-Jewish relations, I'd like to hear it. For example, how about the portrayal of Jews in Polish literature, and of Poles in Jewish literature? The cultural identity of Jews in pre-war Poland (polish / german / russian / lithuanian influences etc), Jews in the Polish army and in the 19th century rebellions, Jewish participation in the Polish films industry, influence of Polish nationalism on Jewish nationalism (zionism). There are a lot of good topics to discuss, but the trolls just want to rehash the old boring arguments.
Varsovian 93 | 638    
12 Mar 2012  #93

Try the Jerzy Kosiński thread.
ReservoirDog - | 132    
12 Mar 2012  #94

how about the portrayal of Jews in Polish literature

Very good proposal :) Jankiel - jew from Pan Tadeusz by Adam Mickiewicz. He was described as a patriot, probably played the character of Rabbi Jakub Natan.
Marek11111 9 | 827    
12 Mar 2012  #95

Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? I say terrible for Poles letting them into Poland.
Jews traitors to Polish crown during partitions
Jews sabotage Polish resistance against Germans and soviets
Jews killed Polish population during ww2
Jews and NKVD exterminated millions of patriotic Poles after ww2
and now Jews want restitution, I say look at Soros a Jew that help Germans to kill Jews go ask him that is how he made his money an I am sure if he was not Jew he be in Israel standing in front of court as war criminal.
genecps 7 | 133    
25 Jun 2012  #96

Merged:Jewish History in Poland

Hello all. My family is from Belarus, which was part of the Polish commonwealth. I'm a Jew, with a family history of being of direct descent of the Khazar Royal Family (for those who do not know who Khazars are, we are white people from Southern Russia who converted to Judaism). Living in America I always heard that Polish were the biggest Antisemites, so not too long ago I decided to do some research on that subject, and what I found was completely opposite:

From the founding of the Kingdom of Poland in 1025 through to the early years of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth created in 1569, Poland was the most tolerant country in Europe. Known as paradisus Iudaeorum (Latin for Paradise of the Jews) it became a unique shelter for persecuted and expelled European Jewish communities and a home to the world's largest Jewish community. According to some sources, about three-quarters of all Jews lived in Poland by the middle of the 16th century.

Although the Holocaust occurred largely in German occupied Poland there was little collaboration with the Nazis by her citizens.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland

King Casimir was favorably disposed toward Jews. On 9 October 1334, he confirmed the privileges granted to Jewish Poles in 1264 by Bolesław V the Chaste. Under penalty of death, he prohibited the kidnapping of Jewish children for the purpose of enforced Christian baptism. He inflicted heavy punishment for the desecration of Jewish cemeteries.
Although Jews had lived in Poland since before the reign of King Casimir, he allowed them to settle in Poland in great numbers and protected them as people of the king.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_III_the_Great#Relationship_with_Polish_Jews
Harry 81 | 13,431    
25 Jun 2012  #97

Although the Holocaust occurred largely in German occupied Poland there was little collaboration with the Nazis by her citizens. Collaboration by individual Poles has been described as smaller than in other occupied countries. Statistics of the Israeli War Crimes Commission indicate that less than 0.1% of Polish gentiles collaborated with the Nazis.

Yawn. You really got nothing better to do that just parroting rubbish from Wikipedia? Tell you what, why not explain how the quarter of a million Poles who joined the German armed forces were not collaborating with the Nazis?

After you've done that you can explain how Jews being banned from living in Warsaw for the majority of the time it has been the capital of Poland fits into your diatribe.
genecps 7 | 133    
25 Jun 2012  #98

I know u must have a thing against wiki, but it is a true. But if that bugs u, go to the Israels Yad Vashem and check out which country has the most number of Righteous Among Men? Wait for it... It's Poland!!! What a shock! lol
jon357 70 | 12,793    
25 Jun 2012  #99

What a shock

No shock at all, given the number of Jewish people who found themselves on the territory of the Second Republic, when it appeared. No shock either the number of letters of denunciation to the Nazi occupiers, some of which were published a few years back.
Harry 81 | 13,431    
25 Jun 2012  #100

I know u must have a thing against wiki, but it is a true.

a) There is no verifiable source given in that Wikipedia article, which most often means that the claim is not true.
b) If less than 0.1% of Polish gentiles collaborated with the Nazis (the laughable claim) and some 250,000 Poles served in the German armed forces (the verified fact), either the population of Poland in 1939 was 250,000,000 (Polish census data suggests that that was not the case) or the vast majority of the Poles who served in the German armed forces were Jewish.

check out which country has the most number of Righteous Among Men? Wait for it... It's Poland!!! What a shock! lol

And let's also check which country had the most Jews to save and which country failed to save the largest number of Jews. Wait for it... It's Poland!!! What a shock! Even the German population managed to save more of their Jews than the Poles did. Does that mean that we should congratulate Germans for saving Jews?
yehudi 1 | 436    
25 Jun 2012  #101

Hello all. My family is from Belarus, which was part of the Polish commonwealth. I'm a Jew, with a family history of being of direct descent of the Khazar Royal Family

This guy sounds fake. I'm a Jew, as you all know, and since I was born I've been almost exclusively among Jews, socially, in Synagogues, in school, in yeshiva, in the army, at work, and I must have come in contact with thousands of Jews over the years, in many countries, and read more books and articles than I can count about Jewish subjects. And in all this time and in all these places, I never heard of a single Jew who claims to be a descendent of the Khazars, let alone the "royal family." I've never heard of any such tradition among any Jews anywhere. Not once.

I have a feeling this post was by one of those people who– (a) think that todays Jews are descended from Khazars, and (b) want to show that Poland was always wonderfully accepting of Jews. Say what ever you want, but don't make believe you're a Khazar. I don't even think you're a Jew.
jon357 70 | 12,793    
25 Jun 2012  #102

As I understand it, the Khazar myth was thoroughly and irrefutably debunked by DNA testing. So yes, it looks like the poster is a fake, with an agenda to push.
InWroclaw 90 | 1,921    
25 Jun 2012  #103

how the quarter of a million Poles who joined the German armed forces were not collaborating with the Nazis?

Were they not just conscripts, though? And/or of German origin?

Just sayin'. Polish conscripts to German army
TerryTerrorist - | 8    
25 Jun 2012  #104

@ Harry
for that collaboration thingy, why don't you ask Donald Tusk or somebody whose family was in a similar position?
grubas 12 | 1,392    
25 Jun 2012  #105

No shock at all, given the number of Jewish people who found themselves on the territory of the Second Republic, when it appeared.

Given the attitudes of Jews toward Poles the number of saved Jews is indeed shocking.You Harry and Jon are well known here Polonophobes (I am surprised we are letting you both to stay in this country) and nothing will change it but here is something for all objective and open minded:

Joseph Kutrzeba, then Arie Fajwiszys, the son a music composer and conductor from £ódź, recalled bitterly during his wartime odyssey:

"Why, oh, why didn't my parents know a single Polish family they could turn to in times like these? It was always "Jewish this, and Jewish that," and "we want you to associate only with nice Jewish boys we approve of" and "we don't want you to have anything to do with the goyim." Damn them, it's their own fault. How can you live in a country surrounded by Poles, their country, and all but isolate yourself from them? Why, the only Poles I ever knew were our maid, Vala, and the few actors from the theater who came to my father for music lessons. Serves them right. Now we could use a few Polish friends. Once I brought home a Polish friend, and I was told not to invite him again ... "

More of this very interesting and objective reading about relations between Jews and Poles here: kpk-toronto.org/archives/Jewish_Attitudes_Feb2011.doc
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
25 Jun 2012  #106

for that collaboration thingy, why don't you ask Donald Tusk or somebody whose family was in a similar position?

Dunno, why don't we ask your peasant in-laws instead?

More of this very interesting and objective reading about relations between Jews and Poles here

The site claims that members of the Straz Graniczna were victims in Katyn. Given that the SG didn't even exist until 1991, it seems rather...implausible.
jon357 70 | 12,793    
25 Jun 2012  #107

their country

Their country too. And surprised to suddenly find themselves in a newly formed state that wasn't too keen on them even being in their own homes.
grubas 12 | 1,392    
25 Jun 2012  #108

No,not their country.They were always guests here and cultural aliens,themselves not interested in assimilation.Seriously,if I invite you to my home,does it make it YOUR home? ******* try it.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
25 Jun 2012  #109

Guests? According to the Polish constitution, they were citizens and entitled to the same treatment as any other ethnic group.

Unless of course, you think that the constitution should be ignored when it suits your own agenda?
Harry 81 | 13,431    
25 Jun 2012  #110

The site claims that members of the Straz Graniczna were victims in Katyn. Given that the SG didn't even exist until 1991, it seems rather...implausible.

You mean yet again Polonia reveals its ignorance of Poland? Shock! Horror!

Their country too. And surprised to suddenly find themselves in a newly formed state that wasn't too keen on them even being in their own homes.

As shown by that charming incident when Poland first tried to strip citizenship from certain Polish citizens and then refused to admit them when they tried to enter Poland, thus starting a series of events which ended up in Kristallnacht.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
25 Jun 2012  #111

Listen,Żydku your kind was treted here better than any other minority but you wanted your own country on our soil.

Treated better? My, if that was the 'special treatment', I dread to think how horrible the II RP was towards others!

And I'd love for you to show me some reliable information that showed that they wanted their own country.
InWroclaw 90 | 1,921    
25 Jun 2012  #112

Listen,Żydku your kind was treted here better than any other minority but you wanted your own country on our soil.

What an awfully nice chap you sound like.
grubas 12 | 1,392    
25 Jun 2012  #113

The site claims that members of the Straz Graniczna were victims in Katyn. Given that the SG didn't even exist until 1991, it seems rather...implausible.

Oh yeah,what was KOP then?Created 9/17/1924.

And I'd love for you to show me some reliable information that showed that they wanted their own country.

I am not going to bother as nothing will be reliable enough for you.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
25 Jun 2012  #114

Oh yeah,what was KOP then?Created 9/17/1924.

Not the Straz Graniczna. For a start, the SG is civilian.
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
25 Jun 2012  #115

and some 250,000 Poles served in the German armed forces

Yeah tell us more about your love for Poles ! You must be Nazi through and through .....but honestly stop that gibberish and skunky interpretation of yours, if you are unwilling or unable to understand the past and complicated situation of many people that for goodness sake shut up your gob.

Funny thought that you are not going about number of Jews who were working for German state or for Gestapo.

After you've done that you can explain how Jews being banned from living in Warsaw for the majority of the time it has been the capital of Poland fits into your diatribe.

Should be banned altogether from the country, Poland would be better of for it. And there would be less miserable half wits looking to blame Poles for all the wrongs of the world.

This guy sounds fake

Thanks yehudi I think the same, would you agree that Harry sound Jewish ?

nd let's also check which country had the most Jews to save and which country failed to save the largest number of Jews

Yeah Harry because it is the duty of Poles to do nothing else than saving Jews, right ? On the other hand Britain and any given country doesn't own anything to Poland, right ?

Wait ! Tell us more how much you like Poland, maybe somebody will believe you !

The site claims that members of the Straz Graniczna were victims in Katyn. Given that the SG didn't even exist until 1991, it seems rather...implausible.

There was KOP, preforming similar functions - grasping at straws again ?

Their country too.

No, that never was their country. For most of them anyway, those whose Poles-Jews who were patriots of that country shared a sad fate of Polish patriots during and after WWII>

Unless of course, you think that the constitution should be ignored when it suits your own agenda

According to many constitutions, in many countries citizen are equal - do you really believe that to be true?
Harry 81 | 13,431    
25 Jun 2012  #116

Oh yeah,what was KOP then?Created 9/17/1924.

KOP is not what your ultra-reliable source says:

W tym roku przypadła 72 rocznica mordu katyńskiego, dokonanego w kwietniu 1940 roku przez sowieckie NKWD na oficerach Wojska Polskiego, funkcjonariuszach Policji, Straży Granicznej, Służby Więziennej i polskiej elicie intelektualnej.

kpk-toronto.org

You must be Nazi through and through
...
shut up your gob.

What a delightful lady you are. Such a pity that you still can't learn the difference between hurling insults and discussing topics.

Should be banned altogether from the country, Poland would be better of for it.

Why do you care? You don't live here.

Funny thought that you are not going about number of Jews who were working for German state or for Gestapo.

Do please stop with your lies: I have talked about the Jews who did that.

If all you can do is throw insults and tell lies, PF really would be a far better place without you.
grubas 12 | 1,392    
25 Jun 2012  #117

Should be banned altogether from the country,

Ain't that right?(Rhetorical question)

would you agree that Harry sound Jewish ?

110%,he is one.

Yeah Harry because it is the duty of Poles to do nothing else than saving Jews, right ?

Of course they have had nothing better to do than saving aliens who hated and despised them for centuries.(I am being ironic)

For most of them anyway, those whose Poles-Jews who were patriots of that country shared a sad fate of Polish patriots during and after WWII>

Let me add that assimilated Jews (whom I have nothing against) were alienated and despised by their "fellow" Jews.

According to many constitutions, in many countries citizen are equal - do you really believe that to be true?

The point is that Jewry in Poland enjoyed special priviliges forced upon newborn Poland by American administration which was under pressure from American Jewry.
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
25 Jun 2012  #118

I dread to think

bingo !

What a delightful lady you are. S

lady ? :D
Poor harry going bonkers !

PF really would be a far better place without you.

Well the world would be a better place without you ! Such people like you are hate mongering mental dwarfs !

Such a pity that you still can't learn the difference between hurling insults and discussing topics.

You are not discussing topics. You spread propaganda and lies!Yes harry there are not half-trues but there are whole lies !
Stop your propaganda and we can discus the topic.

I-S not that I think you will.
Harry 81 | 13,431    
25 Jun 2012  #119

Ain't that right?(Rhetorical question)

Got to love two people who choose not to live in Poland discussing who should and should not be allowed to live in the country that they abandoned.

he point is that Jewry in Poland enjoyed special priviliges forced upon newborn Poland by American administration which was under pressure from American Jewry.

Such as the privilege to sit on special benches and the privilege of not being allowed to become lawyers or doctors, etc, etc.
grubas 12 | 1,392    
25 Jun 2012  #120

Such as the privilege to sit on special benches and the privilege of not being allowed to become lawyers or doctors, etc, etc.

They should be greatfull they were sitting on any benches as we the Poles were funding Jewish schools were they were learning to hate and despise us.

Polish Minority Treaty, which was signed on 18th June 1919 in Versailles and March Constitution adopted on 21st March 1921. Polish Minority Treaty guaranteed to national minorities right to found schools and other institutions (for example social institutions) in their own language, it obligated the country to finance public schools with languages of the minorities and also to respect religious customs, inter alia, Sabbath. In case of treaty violations members of minorities could send complaints to the League of Nations.




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