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Terrible past for the Jews in Poland?



gumishu 11 | 4,661    
6 Mar 2012  #31

are you going to comment on the rest of my reply or you are ignoring it on purpose?

yes - you thought Polish anti-semitism through - though you fail to believe Jews were wrongdoing Poles (they couldn't possibly - they are such a nice bunch) - and well if someone's rich they must be good


PlasticPole 7 | 2,669    
6 Mar 2012  #32

That is WHY the Zionists wanted Israel, MW. And yet you probably disprove of Israel and Zionists. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.

I ask again, where is the Christian grace and forgiveness in this thread?

Father, forgive them. They know not what they do.

Luke 23:34
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,455    
6 Mar 2012  #33

yes - you thought Polish anti-semitism through - though you fail to believe Jews were wrongdoing Poles (they couldn't possibly - they are such a nice bunch) - and well if someone's rich they must be good

and you are accusing me of lack of debating skills? phew.........
gumishu 11 | 4,661    
6 Mar 2012  #34

That is WHY the Zionists wanted Israel, MW. And yet you probably disprove of Israel and Zionists. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.

and I think Jews suffered because of the sins of their own leaders and elites - those who were after money and thought Jews can control the world from behind the scenes (after all they are the chosen people, no?)
MediaWatch 10 | 947    
6 Mar 2012  #35

That is WHY the Zionists wanted Israel, MW. And yet you probably disprove of Israel and Zionists. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.

What's your problem?

Where did I ever say I disaprove of Israel or Zionists?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,669    
6 Mar 2012  #36

Why anyone suffers is between that person and God.

John 8:7

Judge not lest ye be judged.
gumishu 11 | 4,661    
6 Mar 2012  #37

and you are accusing me of lack of debating skills? phew.........

no you stated that you thought Polish anti-semitism through - did you find any substance in accusations against Jews? honestly? were Jews wrongdoing gentiles or not? am I wrong if I state that you believe Jews are and always were innocent sheep? and hell they have no tribal consciousness to themselves (I don't say all have and I don't even say the majority of all now living Jews have a tribal consciousness - actually present day Jews may be even the most devoid of tribal consciousness from all nations appart from those living in Israel - and i mean statistically)
PlasticPole 7 | 2,669    
6 Mar 2012  #38

Nobody is innocent. This is why Jesus died for mankind's collective sins. This is why man has a moral obligation towards peace.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,455    
6 Mar 2012  #39

no you stated that you thought Polish anti-semitism through

yes. I was curious why Poles in comparison to other nations blame many things on Jews- I was really curious.

did you find any substance in accusations against Jews?

no.

honestly?

yes. I am being honest with you.

were Jews wrongdoing gentiles or not?

no

am I wrong if I state that you believe Jews are and always were innocent sheep?

not sheep. A minority living in Poland. The Other. Different.

and hell they have no tribal consciousness to themselves

how would I know. You need to ask the Jews - the only problem is: the Jews don't exist. People of Jewish descent do. Just like people living in Poland do exist, but they are not all the same.

actually present day Jews may be even the most devoid of tribal consciousness from all nations appart from those living in Israel - and i mean statistically)

that is a speculation on your part. You simply don't know. How does one measure the tribal consciousness anyways?
Foreigner4 12 | 1,778    
6 Mar 2012  #40

and that is a good enough reason to kill people? Hm.....I am starting to worry about your moral compass G

maybe I missed it but I don't recall reading his advocating anyone be killed in his post.
gumishu 11 | 4,661    
6 Mar 2012  #41

don't worry she's POSITIVELY prejudiced :) in a POSITIVE way ;)
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,455    
6 Mar 2012  #42

maybe I missed it but I don't recall reading his advocating anyone be killed in his post.

of course he didn't. If you read the OP's post you would notice that he provided a link to Jedwabne similar cases, which (just o refresh your memory) were the cases of killing Jewish population by the Polish local population.

I have watched the video, have you?
gumishu 11 | 4,661    
6 Mar 2012  #43

maybe I missed it but I don't recall reading his advocating anyone be killed in his post.

there is a phrasal verb in Polish - patrzeć komuś na ręce - it means to watch closely what one is doing - if you suggest that we should closely watch what Jews are doing you will soon get a label of an anti-semite if not a fascist
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,455    
6 Mar 2012  #44

don't worry she's POSITIVELY prejudiced :) in a POSITIVE way ;)

please stick to the discussion and try to avoid personal remarks. Looks like you have nothing to say or comment about anymore in this thread then.
gumishu 11 | 4,661    
6 Mar 2012  #45

btw I haven't watched the video and now it looks like it's gone - the title was pretty controversial and that's why it's gone most probably - by the way aphro do you positively ;) believe Jedwabne happened in every Polish village (btw Jedwabne was not a village but a small town - Jews didn't typically live in farming villages as they mostly never farmed in Poland (why farm when you can earn more by trading))
Foreigner4 12 | 1,778    
6 Mar 2012  #46

There are two sides to every story in history, unless it is the story of the Jews- then there is only one story and any deviation from it is sure to draw the "racism" choir, ultimately drowning any discussion on it. I am not saying the popular accepted narrative is wrong, just that any deviation from it gets a popularized response of condemnation not seen on ANY OTHER topic in ALL of human history. The only thing comparable is denouncing Muhammad or the Koran among Islamic circles but even that is not as institutionalized as the unquestionable sanctity of all of Jewish history- I find that remarkable.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,455    
6 Mar 2012  #47

btw I haven't watched the video and now it looks like it's gone

no, it isn't. Look harder.


you are welcome:)

the title was pretty controversial and that's why it's gone most probably

see, it is not gone. You are speculating again.

by the way aphro do you postitively ;) believe Jedwabne happened in every Polish village (btw Jedwabne was not a village but a small town) - Jews didn't typically live in farming villages as they mostly never farmed in Poland (why farm when you can earn more by trading)

ha, ha. You are worst the Cejrowski dude. I guess most I don't have to ask you anymore questions on that subject.
gumishu 11 | 4,661    
6 Mar 2012  #48

Jedwabne było w każdej wsi - said a woman whose father was a witness to detention, rape and other violence against Jews in hiding in a village somewhere in Podkarpacie by their Polish neighbours (£ańcut area) - the Jews were then denounced to German authorities who killed them on spot

the thing is 'Jedwabne było w każdej wsi' is her own stipulation for the most part

I know you read Polish aphro - so have a read about Jews and farming in Poland

Popular - not only in Poland - the stereotype of the Jew presented solely as a resident of the city, small or big, engaged in trade or craft, lacking the ability and desire to work in the fields. It is true that in the years between wars the vast majority of the Jewish community in Poland lived in urban areas and engaged in a variety of non-agricultural professions. The traditional stereotype, as well as the occupational structure makes many researchers to treat marginal the agricultural occupations when examining the structure of the Jewish community in Poland. As a result, it is often forgotten that in Poland there were also Jewish agriculture, both in the form of small farms, as well as estates. Jews were also gardening, providing products for the industrial plant (tobacco cultivation) or individual urban consumers (horticultural, gardening). Moreover, the Jewish tradition of agriculture in Poland dates back many centuries.

sztetl.org.pl/pl/term/114,rolnictwo
Harry 81 | 13,431    
6 Mar 2012  #49

Poles in comparison to other nations blame many things on Jews

Got to say that living in Poland I really do not pick up on that. Please don't mistake people who have never even been to Poland but claim to be Poles, or 'Poles' who visit once every decade for a few days, as being representative of people in Poland.

There are two sides to every story in history, unless it is the story of the Jews

I do hope that you are not trying to claim that there are two sides to the story of the holocaust and that in one version the death camps were entirely appropriate.
gumishu 11 | 4,661    
6 Mar 2012  #50

sure there are two sides of the story - haven't you heard of 'Polish death camps'???
Alligator - | 261    
6 Mar 2012  #51

I do hope that you are not trying to claim that there are two sides to the story of the holocaust and that in one version the death camps were entirely appropriate.

I think that the disscussion above was about difficult Polish-Jewish relations in pre-war and war period. Ofcourse there are two sides to this story.
I do hope that you are not mentioning Holocaust just to evade Foreigner4's valid point about Jewish history narrative.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,455    
6 Mar 2012  #52

I do hope that you are not mentioning Holocaust just to evade Foreigner4's valid point about Jewish history narrative.

the video has NO Jewish narrative, but a Polish one.
Alligator - | 261    
6 Mar 2012  #53

Yes I noticed that you posted video, don't worry I didn't omit your valuable input to this thread, so don't sweat.
You probably realize that there is more to Jewish history than this video. I was writing about more general approach of some to Jewish history and narrative they use.
Harry 81 | 13,431    
6 Mar 2012  #54

I think that the disscussion above was about difficult Polish-Jewish relations in pre-war and war period.

I believe his statement was "There are two sides to every story in history" (my emphasis).

sure there are two sides of the story - haven't you heard of 'Polish death camps'???

Can't say that I have, largely because there were never any Polish death camps and claiming that there were is at best a display of jaw-dropping ignorance, just as claiming that there are two sides to the story of the Holocaust is.

Foreigner4's valid point about Jewish history narrative.

And which valid point would that be?
Alligator - | 261    
6 Mar 2012  #55

I thought that since you are posting here, you can read and write. Maybe I was wrong?
Foreigner4 post is above, you (maybe) can read it and figure by yourself what he was referring to.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,455    
6 Mar 2012  #56

Yes I noticed that you posted video, don't worry I didn't omit your valuable imput to thi thread, so don't sweat.

why thank you. I was not sweating. I was talking on topic:)

You probably realize that there is more to Jewish history than this video.

no need to be patronizing, unless you cannot help it.

I was writting about more general approach of some to Jewish history and narrative they use.

?
Harry 81 | 13,431    
6 Mar 2012  #57

I thought that since you are posting here, you can read and write. Maybe I was wrong?
Foreigner4 post is above, you (maybe) can read it and figure by yourself what he was referring to.

I was asking about his "valid" point. But given that instead of making any attempt at all to discuss that point you instead post ad hom comments/insults, it's pretty clear that you also know how valid his point was.
OP wolf 1 | 4    
6 Mar 2012  #58

Today again in Gazeta Wyborcza is about another normal small village

//bialystok.gazeta.pl/bialystok/1,35235,11290059,Polacy_zabili_palkami _20_Zydowek_w_Bzurach__IPN_prowadzi.html

i want to know our true history .
Marek11111 9 | 827    
6 Mar 2012  #59

I'm living in Poland for many years, I have never heard good words toward Jews by Poles unless very very rarely. Rather I have heard repeatedly phrases of hatred from most of Poles despising the Jews and detest them, when I ask them. Why you so hate Jews?

during partition Jews ware chosen people the occupier prefer them then Poles Jews revived property stolen from Poles and Jews discriminate against Poles with blessing from occupiers. During ww2 Jews kissed Russian tanks and collaborated with soviets to kill polish residents and send them to Siberia, even in some cases Jews welcome Germans in Poland in 1939. there are cases documenting Jews killing Poles like a Bielski brothers killing inhabitants of Polish village. After ww2 90% of Polish communist ware Jews they join NKWD then UB they have committed crime against Poles that only old people speak of.

Some says that Poland is not their homeland, and some says the Jews completely were established hegemony over everything in the country (simply jealousy!)

Ask yourself after centuries in a country majority of Jews did not try to assimilate but worked actively against Poles and Polish interest if it is jealousy or revenge. What do you do with enemy of the state in any country?

two wrong does not make it right.
Varsovian 93 | 638    
6 Mar 2012  #60

The thing is that if Pole A does something wrong Pole B will call him a bad person. If Jewish Pole (Polish Jew) A does something wrong, then his ethnic group is involved too.

Jews didn't mix, for whatever reason. Coming from a town with a large, Muslim ghetto, I can tell you that this always goes down like a lead balloon. And "my" ghetto spawned suicide bombers.

Add to this: (i) the Jewish-led Bolshevik Revolution (read Volkogonov - chief KGB archivist) and the shock waves this sent through Poland, (ii) the heavy Jewish presence in the security "services" post WWII and you get a heady mix. And let's not forget the Jewish clique that lost out in the Party in-fighting in 1968 and then came back in the form of Adam Michnik, arguing for a better form of reformed Communism.

And if that weren't enough, you get Jewish campaign groups stirring matters up for their own ends. Perhaps someone has heard a Jew proclaim what a great place Poland was for Jews for centuries (who were there by choice, remember) before it all went bad thanks to the Germans. I haven't.

Haven't we seen echoes of this in the British attitudes to Muslims in recent years - and for far less cause? 50 dead at the hands of terror bombers, granted, but they always posed a lesser threat to the existence of the British state than the evil (yes, Communists were evil) Jewish-led Red Horde that made it to the gates of Warsaw in 1920. A touch more understanding, please. And less hypocrisy. In light of the circumstances and the times, Poles between the wars were fairly OK. In contrast, Hitler's rabidly anti-semitic politics were formed at the time Jewish Communists tried to take over by revolution in Germany.




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