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Terrible past for the Jews in Poland?


radical - | 21
20 Mar 2013 #211
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0LZNXNVL1G8

"Amy Goodman interviews a former Israeli minister."
yerrik 1 | 35
21 Mar 2013 #212
I am throwing in my ideas through the examples and ideas of other authors. I have, and will continue to, post some of my own ideas. But I also need help in conveying my point, and there's no better way to do that than refer to other sources. Excerpts are not the only posts I make.

"Amy Goodman interviews a former Israeli minister."

^Yes. This is very true.
poziomka2 - | 29
21 Mar 2013 #213
If the obligatory interviews with the Jewish Community Board that were required for Gentiles requesting permission to move into the center of the town of Bransk were just a formality, that had no bearing upon whether of not said Gentiles would be allowed to move into the center of Bransk, then why were they mandatory?

I did not know about this. This is shocking, why were Polish or Gentiles not allowed to enter their own city by Jews????
poziomka2 - | 29
21 Mar 2013 #215
And you come on Polish forum? Yeah, duh, this is a Polish city, so yes "their own"
Harry
21 Mar 2013 #216
I did not know about this.

Not surprising, seeing that the 'fact' in question was only made up last week.
jon357 67 | 16,836
21 Mar 2013 #217
Yeah, duh, this is a Polish city,

Evidently not, if someone else was controlling who can live there.

Not that the story's true, anyway.
Harry
21 Mar 2013 #218
Here's a 22,000 word history of Jews in Bransk:
aapjstudies.org/index.php?id=103

Strangely enough there is not a word about gentiles needing permission to live in Bransk.

Even more amusingly, googling 'bransk jews gentiles live center permission' gives this thread as the top two results!
Ironside 50 | 10,907
21 Mar 2013 #219
Evidently not, if someone else was controlling who can live there.

I don't know anything abut Brainsk but an idea that town or city could be autonomous and can have enjoy said right is nothing new. That it was Jewish majority who controlled said town is not impossible.

so what do you disagree with jon.
poziomka2 - | 29
21 Mar 2013 #220
To Jon- Inside Poland's borders so it was a Polish city where Jews were allowed to take control. Did Jews do it rightly by Polish folk? NO, it does not matter what the deal was between Jews and Polish royals, this was not right, and then you wonder why Polish folk didn't like the Jews, and just before you call them anti-Semites those Polish were also discontent with Polish royalty, just the same. Are you surprised? Would you let Polish create country within a country, let's say within your Jewish community? A separate body of power? You are not famous for your tolerance of differences, anything different to Judaism is scorned.
Harry
21 Mar 2013 #221
Inside Poland's borders so it was a Polish city where Jews were allowed to take control.

Who says that in Bransk Jews took control? Jews accounted for a tenth of the number of town councilors and their number was limited by law. The mayor of Bransk was a gentile and his deputy a Jew.
poziomka2 - | 29
21 Mar 2013 #222
[quote=Harry]Who says that in Bransk Jews took control? Jews accounted for a tenth of the number of town councilors and their number was limited by law. The mayor of Bransk was a gentile and his deputy a Jew.

Even if so, the deputy had a lot to say, and in those days law and order were not so strictly followed like today the order and chaos intertwined each other, Jews had a lot of free hand, you are stretching and stretching it, just to acquit Jews.
Harry
21 Mar 2013 #223
the deputy had a lot to say,

Got any proof of that?

Jews had a lot of free hand,

Such as the freedom to not account for more than a tenth of the number of councilors.

you are stretching and stretching it, just to acquit Jews.

Acquit them of what exactly?
poziomka2 - | 29
21 Mar 2013 #224
poziomka2: the deputy had a lot to say,Got any proof of that?

Yes, history books.

poziomka2: Jews had a lot of free hand, Such as the freedom to not account for more than a tenth of the number of councilors.

That's more than Polish merchants and country folk combined, any more complaints? How many Polish councillors, senators, politicians are there in any town in Israel? I forgot, if you don't have Jewish blood you don't even get to study there because you are not a citizen, that's what I call tolerance. But if it was the other way around a Jew would call it Jew-hating.

poziomka2: you are stretching and stretching it, just to acquit Jews.Acquit them of what exactly?

Of inappropriate behaviour in Branks.
Harry
21 Mar 2013 #225
Yes, history books.

Really? Do feel very free to quote from them and to link to them. But I fear that quoting from the kind of books which taught you that Lufthansa took part in the battle of Britain will just get you laughed at.

That's more than Polish merchants and country folk combined, any more complaints? How many Polish councillors, senators, politicians are there in any town in Israel?

Given that you claim the town was controlled by Jews and that gentiles couldn't live in it, why were only a tenth of the councilors Jewish? Oh, and do feel very free to link to a source which supports your claim about Polish merchants.

if you don't have Jewish blood you don't even get to study there because you are not a citizen, that's what I call tolerance.

A quarter of Israelis have no Jewish blood and that proportion goes up every year.

Of inappropriate behaviour in Branks.

Would that be the alleged bad behaviour which has been lied about and in no way proved?
poziomka2 - | 29
21 Mar 2013 #226
Really? Do feel very free to quote from them and to link to them. But I fear that quoting from the kind of books which taught you that Lufthansa took part in the battle of Britain will just get you laughed at.

Look them up yourself for a change. Yes, for the 100th time there was Lufthansa, either as a second unit and the name became Lufthansa.

Given that you claim the town was controlled by Jews and that gentiles couldn't live in it, why were only a tenth of the councilors Jewish? Oh, and do feel very free to link to a source which supports your claim about Polish merchants.

Jews regulated the trade.

poziomka2: if you don't have Jewish blood you don't even get to study there because you are not a citizen, that's what I call tolerance.

A quarter of Israelis have no Jewish blood and that proportion goes up every year.

You are bypassing the question. I will ask it again, could the Gentiles attain the same position in the Israeli government as the Jews? Of those 25% is anyone with equal rights, same rights accorded to the Israeli Jews? Could Polish be given the same rights as the Jews in Israel? Because Jews in Bransk, in a Polish town, were given even higher rights than some Polish. Can a non-Jew study at public university in Israel? And if so, can then such Gentile become a politician or councillor making decisions in Israel? Because in Poland you do not have to prove your blood lines to become a politician or equal citizen. I am asking again. Answer the question please.
Harry
21 Mar 2013 #227
Look them up yourself for a change.

You are the one making the claim, it is up to you to provide proof of that claim.

Jews regulated the trade.

Again, please be so kind as to provide a source which supports your claim.

could the Gentiles attain the same position in the Israeli government as the Jews?

Yes they can: they serve in the Knesset, the cabinet, and the supreme court.

Because in Poland you do not have to prove your blood lines to become a politician or equal citizen.

Wrong again. In order to be Polish you do have to prove your blood line: Poland uses jus sanguinis when it comes to assessing who is and is not Polish, just being born in Poland does not make one a Polish citizen.
poziomka2 - | 29
21 Mar 2013 #228
poziomka2: Because in Poland you do not have to prove your blood lines to become a politician or equal citizen. Wrong again. In order to be Polish you do have to prove your blood line: Poland uses jus sanguinis when it comes to assessing who is and is not Polish, just being born in Poland does not make one a Polish citizen.

You are actually right about the blood lines and citizenship. However, you do not have to be a citizen to become a politician in Poland.

poziomka2: could the Gentiles attain the same position in the Israeli government as the Jews? Yes they can: they serve in the Knesset, the cabinet, and the supreme court.

So it is a selective policy, because a non-Jew does not generally have the same rights as a Jew in Israel.
Lenka 3 | 2,452
21 Mar 2013 #229
You are actually right about the blood lines and citizenship. However, you do not have to be a citizen to become a politician in Poland

Foreigners can be politicians but they wouldn't go too far

bryk.pl/teksty/studia/pozostaƂe/politologia/24007-zasady_prawa_wyborczego.html

To be elected one has to:
- turn 18 to the day of elections
- be Polish citizen
- posses full rights as citizens
poziomka2 - | 29
21 Mar 2013 #230
To be elected one has to:- turn 18 to the day of elections- be Polish citizen- posses full rights as citizens

Ok.
jon357 67 | 16,836
21 Mar 2013 #231
Even more amusingly, googling 'bransk jews gentiles live center permission' gives this thread as the top two results!

Exactly. Vexatious trolling by somebody with a very, very unhealthy obsession.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
21 Mar 2013 #232
People believing that a mandatory interview about prospective residency had no bearing on whether residency would be allowed are either deluded or disingenuous.

Vexatious trolling by somebody with a very, very unhealthy obsession.

Yes trolling, that is exactly what Jon357 is doing here. He is trolling because he cannot allow any information to be revealed on this forum that shows that some Jews in Poland have actually been discriminatory towards Gentiles in Poland. Such information deviates from the myth of eternal Jewish victimhood. So he personally attacks people by calling them unhealthily obsessed. These are low-down, dirty and scummy smear tactics. Foreigner4 put it well earlier in this thread:

There are two sides to every story in history, unless it is the story of the Jews- then there is only one story and any deviation from it is sure to draw the "racism" choir, ultimately drowning any discussion on it..

4 eigner 2 | 831
21 Mar 2013 #233
People, in all fairness, we all know that both sides, treated each other poorly at times. No need to be nasty about it now. It happened many years ago and all you can do now is not to repeat the same mistakes again. Try to live together in peace and harmony, that's all.
grubas 12 | 1,390
21 Mar 2013 #234
People, in all fairness, we all know that both sides, treated each other poorly at times.

True but if you Polish and point it out you are an antisemite!
4 eigner 2 | 831
21 Mar 2013 #235
maybe you guys need to quit talking about the past as much as you do as these discussions are not helping any of you anyway.
grubas 12 | 1,390
21 Mar 2013 #236
Can you make Jews stop? This is a never ending story man.
Nickidewbear 23 | 584
21 Mar 2013 #237
maybe you guys need to quit talking about the past as much as you do as these discussions are not helping any of you anyway.

But if you don't know where you've been, how do you know where you're going?
Harry
21 Mar 2013 #238
some Jews in Poland have actually been discriminatory towards Gentiles in Poland.

A fact which no poster here has ever denied. However, is the reverse true?

the myth of eternal Jewish victimhood.

Which of course is completely different from the Christ of Nations myth put forward by a number of Poles.

And now relations between Poles and Jews are good. Some of us would like to keep it that way, others seek to drive Jews and gentiles apart.

Some people seem to just feel a compulsive need to be unpleasant.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
21 Mar 2013 #239
But if you don't know where you've been, how do you know where you're going?

If you talk too much about where you've been, you are stuck and won't be going anywhere in the future.
grubas 12 | 1,390
21 Mar 2013 #240
Some of us would like to keep it that way,

You are not Polish so you should refrain from speaking in the name of Poles.Now, I am Polish and I think we the Poles will be much better off not dealing with Jews at all as we don't need them for anything.


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