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Terrible past for the Jews in Poland?


Novichok 5 | 7,729
20 Aug 2022 #841
Can't excactly expect most of them to be hand picked for coal mining

You can't expect the locals to like foreigners who do not integrate vertically.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,194
20 Aug 2022 #842
So naturally it leads it easier to professions in need of writing, like book keeping.

Not realy. Nobles couldn't go all out and do usury for religius and prestigous reasons, Jews had no such limits. So the nobles were getting profit and didn't really look what and how Jews were doing the dirty job of screwing peasnts till they bleed them dry.
jon357 74 | 21,819
20 Aug 2022 #843
Nobles

Nobles or szlachta?
Kashub1410 6 | 690
20 Aug 2022 #844
@jon357
Szlachta is the Polish word for Polish nobility. Compared to English nobility which was hierarchical depending on size of owned land. Polish nobility rights and status was closer to that of a city citizen, just that it was considered in all the realm, not just within 1 city
jon357 74 | 21,819
20 Aug 2022 #845
Szlachta is the Polish word for Polish nobility.

This discussion is not a new one here.

A better translation is "gentlefolk" or possibly "gentry" (though not all szlachta were gentry). You mention having specific city rights; there's a word for that too: "burghers".

Nobility is the top 1%, closer in meaning to the Polish word 'magnaty". The Szlachta comprised between 12 and 18% of the population and there was nothing remotely noble about most of them.
Lyzko 45 | 9,275
20 Aug 2022 #846
Jews typically tended to shy away from certain professions, more owing to the fact that all applicants or aspirants, if you prefer, had to show evidence that they were Christians, as much as any other possible reason!

Even much later when many Jews decided to convert, they were often met with continued hostility, deemed in most cases as trying to almost weasel their way into to gentile society, instead of as merely trying to eek out an honest living.

Either they were (as Jackie Mason likes to quip) "too Jewish" or, in the jaundiced eyes of the powers that be at the time, "not really Christian enough", worse still, as pretending to be the same as everyone else if only to curry favor and overtake the society.

Either way, the Jews couldn't win.
Kashub1410 6 | 690
20 Aug 2022 #847
@jon357
As I stated, your having a very anglocentric approach to this. Polish hereditary elite group (happy?) was more inspired by ancient Roman elite traditions then English laws and customs. Hope it makes more sense for you now

Difference was formally and informally, while in England all the differences were very formalised and ruled by rules to a higher degree.

@Lyzko
I disagree, what you are writing is what needs to be told today for Jews to continue to keep together as not to join other societies.
jon357 74 | 21,819
20 Aug 2022 #848
a very anglocentric approach

Not really.

happy?)

Happier, though there wasn't much that was elite about most of them. Traditionally Privileged Caste is a better description.

ancient Roman elite traditions

In which case, they'd be Freemen or Yeomanry, though they perhaps fit the term Ziemianin better. Patrician they were not.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,194
21 Aug 2022 #849
Jews decided to convert, they were often met with continued hostility,

Again you don't know a thing about Poland. In Poland if they want to they could and it was mighy beficial for them, the thing is they didn't want to or rather sledom wanted to.

On the top of it they were self-governing as a community and those Jews in authority often kept the rest of them on a tight leash.

Nobles or szlachta?

Well, those who had land and peasnts to rule.
jon357 74 | 21,819
21 Aug 2022 #850
In Poland if they want to they could and it was mighy beficial for them

Not always so easy a life.

In Warsaw and Białystok, many converted to Anglicanism (1800 families in the Warsaw Anglican parish in 1939 and even more in Podlasie) due to open anti-semitism (including in its liturgy) within the RCC.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,194
21 Aug 2022 #851
Not always so easy a life.

If a Jew converted to Catholicism he automatically become a noble. There was even a case when a Jew was made a noble as an exception even thought he kept his Jewish faith.

Univerciteis that had been supported from taxes by the state were full of Jews who were blocking poor farmer children. Hence students were demanding quotas, no more then 10% Jews studing as they are only 10% of the population.

In 30' famers children (ex peasants) went to school and everywhere they went as doctor, lawyers and so on they were blocked by Jews who were promoting their own.

Given the reality of relation bewteen Jews and farmers- opressors and peasants their victims they exploited. No suprised they weren't loved.

anti-semitism (including in its liturgy) within the RCC.

That is rubbish. Jews were liked by some, loved by some, some didn't care about them, they were demonised by some and hated by some and all of them were CAtholicks.

Your suggeston is a slander because it is no-sense.
jon357 74 | 21,819
22 Aug 2022 #852
noble

A 'szlachta' maybe. 10 a penny and nothing 'noble' about them.

And no, they were not always received with open arms.

That is rubbish.

So are you trying to stupidly deny that there was anti Semitism, including written into the liturgy?

blocked by Jews who were promoting their own.

Showing your true colours.
Alien 18 | 4,763
22 Aug 2022 #853
It seems that anti Semitism in Poland is, or at least was, an expression of normalcy. There is no need to deny it. Finally, we all sucked it out of the milk of our mothers and/or Polish cows. 🙂🙃
jon357 74 | 21,819
22 Aug 2022 #854
It seems that anti Semitism in Poland is, or

Normal for Central and Eastern Europe in general.

The French have their moments too.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,194
22 Aug 2022 #855
Showing your true colours.

I would say that you are showing you true colours. I suppose you support quotas for women and miniroites in all walks of life today. Hey but for Jews in the 30' - no!

Left wing hypocrite.

including written into the liturgy?

I supose that you see everthing that way. Pity you don't see reality for what it realy is.
[l!quote=jon357]Normal for Central and Eastern Europe in general.[/quote]
That is where most the Jews were. It is realy hard to be an anti-semite and presocute Jews when there is no Jews around 100 mile radius.

That pathetic that alllaged moral superiorty based on a thin air and bluff. One can tell you are English. lo
jon357 74 | 21,819
22 Aug 2022 #856
I suppose you support

You suppose wrong.

for Jews in the 30' - no!

Obviously no.

It is realy hard to be an anti-semite

It is all too easy, as history shows. Stop whining.

BTW, the only country in Europe never ever to have had any anti Semitic laws is the second largest country in the UK. It is possible،
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,194
22 Aug 2022 #857
Obviously no.

Too bad you are 90 years too late. Work on your reaction time.

It was just a caim not the law. That claim being the norm elsewhere are some primary proof of discrimiation against Jews. Even a horse would laught at that. (as Polish saying goes)

any anti Semitic laws is the second

Amost next to none Jews. What laws Poland had? Even 10% of the population were Jews and at least 1/3 immigrnats/refugees from Russia.
Remember England kicked out all the Jews from England in the middleages and took all their money. I didn't let them in untless modern times. no laws my ass,
jon357 74 | 21,819
22 Aug 2022 #858
Too bad you are 90 years too late

Or you are. Or neither oif us, since the ones responsible for that particularly tawdry piece of evil are the scum who carried it out.

Even 10% of the population were Jews

So it's their country too.

I didn't let them in untless modern times

"Modern times"???? In the 1650s actually. Though we aren't talking about historical antisemitism there; we are laughing at your pathetic little attempts to whitewash (goywash?) historical (and current) reality in Poland.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,194
22 Aug 2022 #859
are the scum who carried it out.

Wash all that spite out of the secreen. lol!
I see you got little aggiated as you make no sense whatso ever. Would you like to name an anti-semitic law in Poland?

your pathetic little attempts to whitewash

You are pathetic. Sorry I talk about reality and facts. You can play with your preachy BS if you want.
Let me tell you I think that there is nothing wrong with disliking Jews. Left wing commmnist trash marginaze demonasie and hate all people who disagree with them and still think they are some kind of higher being. They are not. They are a bad people.

Anti-semitic is an ideological slogan today that doesn't really mean anything.
jon357 74 | 21,819
22 Aug 2022 #860
lol!

So you think those who willfully persecuted people on the grounds of ethnicity weren't scum.

Interesting.

Sorry

And so you should be.

You should also try to understand that the historical narrative about Jewish Poles and gentile Poles belongs equally to both groups; and attempts to whitewash history by manipulating that narrative in the face of all evidence are never either believable or creditable.

In short, the more you say it, the less intelligent observers believe.
Kashub1410 6 | 690
22 Aug 2022 #861
@jon357
Then get some evidence from a credible professor instead of fantasy thesis from a failed wannabe historian
jon357 74 | 21,819
22 Aug 2022 #862
antasy

Or just something that you personally disagree with...

a failed wannabe historian

Go on then, who do you pretend is that?
Kashub1410 6 | 690
22 Aug 2022 #863
@jon357
I can personally disagree about the Soviet Union winning with Nazi Germany on it's own.

But claiming that Poles were out there hunting Jews out of antisemitism post-1945 is not only pure fantasy but, also very much slander! Just for sake of publicity and filling his own pockets!

Every possible person was robbed, stabbed or attacked post ww2 due to civil war in Poland, post war scenario without any order in place and just chaos.

It's like saying that robbers clothing themselves as uniformed soldiers "confiscating" goods during the London blitz were fighting the oppressive monarchy! No! They were just thieves!
jon357 74 | 21,819
22 Aug 2022 #864
Poles were out there hunting Jews out of antisemitism post-1945

Kielce.

Every possible person was robbed, stabbed or attacked post ww2 due to civil war in Poland

As you know, most weren't.
Kashub1410 6 | 690
22 Aug 2022 #865
@jon357

As you know, most weren't.

My family disagrees with you

With regard to Kielce you know perfectly know it was started by a stupid kid avoiding responsibility (guess what happends to anyone trying anything towards kids in Poland. Nowadays too btw)
jon357 74 | 21,819
22 Aug 2022 #866
My family disagrees with you

You're welcome. Others don't.

it was started by a stupid kid

That is a red herring. Was it finished by a 'stupid kid'?

guess what happends to anyone trying anything

If anyone did at all before the Kielce Pogrom which is as you know far from certain.
Kashub1410 6 | 690
22 Aug 2022 #867
You're welcome. Others don't.

I know that certainly well, I know that other people also drink gasoline... Your point?
jon357 74 | 21,819
22 Aug 2022 #868
Should be clear to you.

And probably is.
Lyzko 45 | 9,275
22 Aug 2022 #869
@Cojestdocholery,
It is YOU needs to be educated about the history of the Jews in Europe!

As with many people, you allow anti-Semitic prejudices to interfere with your objecitve judgement.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,194
22 Aug 2022 #870
Interesting.

making stuff up as you go to make people look bad - typical for the bad people.

the historical narrative

If that narrative is false becasue is based on lies and manipulations is not worth a spit! I see you can't name a one anti-semitic law in pre-war Poland. Sure you were talking big for someone who has no cards.

It is YOU

Idiots like you are sure plentiful. Remind me why Jews are belived to be very smart. Unless you get some very smart not much in between and lots of morons like you.


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