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What British unit liberated Poland in 1945??


Steveramsfan 2 | 306
9 Dec 2009 #151
Your reality is clearly based on lies.
1. Lie: you fought for Poland. And then didn't pay the bill for all that you had used.

Unfortunately there was no Poland at this time. There was only burning London behind their back.

You fought to get Poland back as a country. How was London behind the Poles backs when most fought in the Italian Campaign. Monte Cassino was taken at the 3rd attempt by the Polish Army.

You WANT it that Britain is bad so you alter reality to your own reality. Its only your opinion that Poles fought for Britain not a fact.
enkidu 7 | 623
9 Dec 2009 #152
You fought to get Poland back as a country. How was London behind the Poles backs when most fought in the Italian Campaign. Monte Cassino was taken at the 3rd attempt by the Polish Army.

We have fought in the Battle of Britain as well. You can't deny it. And our ships were send on patrols around this island to protect it.

How you can say that somebody who died on British soil in order to protect it didn't prove himself a good friend of this nation? Why the British didn't show a little respect to this people?

They were discarded like an used tool.
As I said before - if Britain was to weak to help Poland in 1945, a gesture of friendship or some gratitude would be accepted. Unfortunately, the only gesture this country show to our soldiers was contempt and insult. Take a look at general Sosabowski's story. That's hurts.

We regain our independence in 1989. For us WW2 was a lengthy war indeed.
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
9 Dec 2009 #153
Steveramsfan:
You fought to get Poland back as a country. How was London behind the Poles backs when most fought in the Italian Campaign. Monte Cassino was taken at the 3rd attempt by the Polish Army.

I did not deny that they were in the Battle of Britain, a few did. The vast majority fought for Poland all through the war and up to 1989.

In reality all soldiers fight for their friends and not their country. Sure they join the Army to fight for their country but when the bullets start flying its their mate they fight for.
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
9 Dec 2009 #154
Lie, lie and keep lying eh? Give us some proof that the B
FC (which you've already been caught lying about) was ever in Poland or ever saw combat. Not a single member of the BFC ever saw combat while in the BFC.

Funny how you defend the Nazis, Jew... and how you hate Poles, instead of running a polite conversation with us with arguments, all you say is: 'you lie'.

Are you hiding some mixed Polish blood that you are as ashamed of as a Nazi would of a Jewish Father?
Or is that Jews are lying about Poles therefore think that Poles lie too? Prompting you to say stuff like:

Which Polish SS unit was a good anti-semite going to join?

1jola 14 | 1,879
10 Dec 2009 #155
Harry

Torq is right on this one. In IPN publications, when discussing this period and looking at personal documents, the nationality listed (narodowość) is Jewish.

Abe Foxman, of the infamous ADL, survived the war by being a baptized Catholic, but who calls him Polish?

I strongly believe that Solidarity would have happily accepted a real power-sharing agreement with the communists had it been on offer - to the exclusion of real democracy.

That is exactly what happened but some people imagine that communists vanished and gave up their total control. Today, PO is calling for castrating IPN, and SLD for shutting it down. The bastards couldn't destroy all the files and crossreferences.
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #156
Well, if by Polish you understand "having Polish passports", then yes - they were Polish.
I naturally meant their ethnicity, not nationality

What I meant is that they were Poles because born in Poland to Polish parents, spoke Polish as a first language, identified themselves as Polish, worked for Poland and called themselves Polish patriots. Which is a hell of a lot more a Pole than Copernicus ever was and you Poles love to claim him as a Pole. But what you mean is that they were not white Catholics and so could not have been Poles. OK, I guess that fits with your belief that black people can not be Poles, Asians can not be Poles, muslims can not be Poles, etc. That is why I point out that you are a bigot.

We have fought in the Battle of Britain as well. You can't deny it.

Yes that is perfectly correct: 144 Poles fought in the Battle of Britain. British people do not forget that and even if they wanted to Poles would never let them. However, an absolute minimum of 89,300 Poles fought in the Germany army (whether Wehrmacht or Waffen-SS). Poles tend to forget that number. I wonder why.

And our ships were send on patrols around this island to protect it.

Yes. Poles even sent the bulk of their navy to the British isles before the war even started! I do love the way that you criticise Britain for not doing enough to fight at a time when your own forces were running away without even firing a shot.

How you can say that somebody who died on British soil in order to protect it didn't prove himself a good friend of this nation?

And of course you forget the British who died on Polish soil. Obviously they didn't prove to be friends of Poland. Your sort even deny they existed!

Why the British didn't show a little respect to this people?
They were discarded like an used tool.
As I said before - if Britain was to weak to help Poland in 1945, a gesture of friendship or some gratitude would be accepted.

Some gesture? You mean it wasn’t enough that Britain: allowed every Pole (and his family) who wanted to remain in the UK to stay there; arranged settlement permit for any Pole (and his family) who wanted to emigrate to the British Empire/Commonwealth; gave, yes gave, housing, clothing, food and money to any Pole (and his family) who couldn’t find a job; gave resettlement training to Poles; gave professional training to Poles; passed the first ever resettlement act in British history for Poles and then gave British citizenship to any Pole (and his family) who wanted it? What you really needed was a ‘gesture’. Fine: two fingers my friend.

And let’s compare the treatment Poles got to the treatment former allies of Poland, the Ukrainians, got. You locked their soldiers in internment camps, closed their school, burned their libraries and destroyed their churches. Then you sent anybody who complained too loudly to a concentration camp. But you still have the cheek to complain about being given only contempt and insults by your former allies.

Funny how you defend the Nazis, Jew... and how you hate Poles, instead of running a polite conversation with us with arguments, all you say is: 'you lie'.
Are you hiding some mixed Polish blood that you are as ashamed of as a Nazi would of a Jewish Father?

Funny how you call me Jew, idiot. Why bother trying polite conversation with you? I tried it and all you did was lie. Now you keep lying, saying that I defend Nazis and am a Jew.

Torq is right on this one. In IPN publications, when discussing this period and looking at personal documents, the nationality listed (narodowość) is Jewish.

Aren't they the same people who insist that the communist-era files show that Walesa was an informer but that there is nothing at all in the files about a certain former PM being gay (something which I know for a fact not to be true)? Well I guess they must be reliable. Can you ask them what nation-state a Jew comes from? Is it Jewland or Jewia?
1jola 14 | 1,879
10 Dec 2009 #157
Can you ask them what nation-state a Jew comes from? Is it Jewland or Jewia?

Huh? At that time, the communists had narodowość not pochodzenie in their forms, so what is it you don't understand?

Aren't they the same people who insist that the communist-era files show that Walesa was an informer

IPN is not just some people but a Commission to investigate crimes agaist Polish nationals. According to archival documents of the communist state securitity, Walesa and Kwasniewski were registered agents. Two presidents in "free" Poland. Both don't like IPN for obvious reasons.

there is nothing at all in the files about a certain former PM being gay (something which I know for a fact not to be true)?

IPN should search the archives for this?
Torq 32 | 2,999
10 Dec 2009 #158
born in Poland to Polish parents

Many of them were born in Poland to Jewish parents.

spoke Polish as a first language

How do you know that? Being born and raised in Jewish families
they might as well speak yiddish as their first language.

identified themselves as Polish

You don't know that.

worked for Poland

They worked for Soviet Union helping the Soviets to enslave Poland.

called themselves Polish patriots

Oh, yes - especially people like Anatol Fejgin from MBP who used to say
"we need to destroy Polish pride, shoot the patriots", "our task is not
only to control Poles physically, we also need to destroy them morally".
Some Polish patriot! :-))))
His sentiments were very much shared by many other "Polish patriots"
from communist Soviet-controlled government.

But what you mean is that they were not white Catholics and so could not have been Poles. OK, I guess that fits with your belief that black people can not be Poles, Asians can not be Poles, muslims can not be Poles, etc. That is why I point out that you are a bigot.

I've never said anything like that. You're trying to convince us that there were
only "Poles" in postwar Poland, denying Ukrainians, Jews or Germans their
separate, very strong identities. That is why I point out that you are a bigot.

You see no difference between being Polish citizen and being an ethnic Pole.
That is why it's also worth pointing out that you are an idiot.
Balkan power
10 Dec 2009 #159
US,English and Russians ''liberated'' us the same way more or less.US are still here if you have noticed.
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #160
Huh? At that time, the communists had narodowość not pochodzenie in their forms, so what is it you don't understand?

That, despite what the commies said, why you think it is impossible for a Jew to be a Pole.

According to archival documents of the communist state securitity, Walesa and Kwasniewski were registered agents.

Documents written before or after 1989? We'll never know!

Many of them were born in Poland to Jewish parents.

Jews had been in Poland for 500+ years. They were ethnically Polish. Just as Afrikaaners are Africans. But of course to you nobody but a white Catholic can be a proper Pole, right? Jews can never be proper Poles! Bigot.
Torq 32 | 2,999
10 Dec 2009 #161
Jews had been in Poland for 500+ years.

Which doesn't mean that they didn't keep their very strong separate identity.
You want to deny them their identity and heritage, right? If you live in Poland
you can't be a Jew! Bigot.
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #162
Which doesn't mean that they didn't keep their very strong separate identity.
You want to refuse them their identity and heritage, right?

Who is to say that they can not be Jewish and Polish? Do you deny that Polish Americans are Americans? Do you say that Afrikaaners are not African? If so, I can introduce you to several who will punch you in the face for telling them that.

The only person who can say "I am only Polish because I have a Polish passport" is that particular passport. You are the one who wants to deny certain people their status as Poles, so you give us the quotes in which those people said I am only Polish because I have a Polish passport".

If you live in Poland you can't be a Jew!

Delete one word and you got that completely right when talking about me.
Torq 32 | 2,999
10 Dec 2009 #163
YAAAAAAAAAAWN...

You begin to bore me, Harry. Come back when you have something interesting to say.
frd 7 | 1,399
10 Dec 2009 #164
Jews had been in Poland for 500+ years. They were ethnically Polish. Just as Afrikaaners are Africans. But of course to you nobody but a white Catholic can be a proper Pole, right? Jews can never be proper Poles! Bigot.

The truth is in the past especially through medieval period there wasn't much sense of being a nation among people. Borders changed as frequently as did feudal lords. Merchants and scientists travelled enough to discard any affiliations, and serf didn't really care at all as long as they were safe and well eaten. I don't mean to undermine the statement that indeed Jews who have a Polish background are (proper or not) Poles, because it's true that they are, whether we call them Poles, Jewish Poles or Polish Jews. Wanted to raise the awareness that these old times don't carry that much relevance to the subject.
Torq 32 | 2,999
10 Dec 2009 #165
You are very much right, frd, but that's not the point.

Harry claims that Polish Jews (or Jewish Poles - however we call them)
were ethnically Polish. That is what he said...

They were ethnically Polish.

He might as well say that a Pakistani living in London is ethnically English
(not the most precise comparison, but still a valid one).

Basically, he wants to deny Polish Jews, Ukrainians or Germans the right
to their separate identities and put them into one big bag as "Poles"
(only because of the fact that they were citizens of Polish state).
That's a bigotry of the highest order. Sorry, but I can't accept that.
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #166
Basically, he wants to deny Polish Jews, Ukrainians or Germans the right
to their separate identities and put them into one big bag as "Poles"
(only because of the fact that they were citizens of Polish state).
That's a bigotry of the highest order. Sorry, but I can't accept that.

You are exactly like a five-year-old boy! You have jam all over your face and you point at me shouting "He ate all the jam!" It is you would wish to deny them their identity: their identity as Poles. Afrikaaners have no problem with being white and African. I'm saying that it is perfectly possible for a person to be Polish and Jewish. You are the bigot who says that they can not be.

He might as well say that a Pakistani living in London is ethnically English
(not the most precise comparison, but still a valid one).

Well, the self-appointed guardians of Britishness, the British National Party, have recently started to accept non-whites as members. If bigots like them can accept that a person can be a Sikh and still be properly British, be a Hindu and still be properly British, why can't a bigot like you accept that a Jew can be properly Polish?
Torq 32 | 2,999
10 Dec 2009 #167
I'm saying that it is perfectly possible for a person to be Polish and Jewish

No, you are saying that Polish Jews were simply Poles (you even said "ethnically Polish").

You really don't see the difference between "ethnically Polish" and "having Polish
citizenship"? Sorry, but even you are not that stupid. You're just desperately trying
to win the argument that you've already pathetically lost.

There IS a difference between "ethnically Polish" and "having Polish citizenship",
and if you weren't such a terrible bigot you'd see it as clearly as I do.

Britishness

I said "English", you started talking about "Britishness". You seem completely
confused, Harry. For your information - people can live in a country and be the
citizens of that country, but still keep their separate identity, heritage and traditions.
It is only bigots like you, who would like to refuse them that right.

It is also quite funny how you described the post-WW2, Soviet-controlled, communist
government of Poland as consisting of people who "worked for Poland and were
Polish patriots" and when I pointed out the idiocy of that statement you very
conveniently didn't answer.

You just can't admit that you were wrong, Harry. That's your problem.
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #168
No, you are saying that Polish Jews were simply Poles (you even said "ethnically Polish").

Liar. I said that the members of the 1945 government were Polish. You said that they were not. I asked you to provide their names and nationality. You named names and said "Jewish". You are the one who says that people can not be Polish and Jewish at the same time.

You really don't see the difference between "ethnically Polish" and "having Polish citizenship"? Sorry

Come to Warsaw and meet a couple of Afrikaaners I know and tell them they aren't South African. After they've finished pummelling you we can try the same trick with a few Polish Americans and you telling them that they aren't properly American.

Your problem is one shared by many Poles: you can not admit that a Pole ever did anything bad. To you any Pole who ever did anything bad is Jewish/Communist/Socialist/Ukrainian/German/whatever. Such a wonderful get-out clause for a nation which has so many problems facing up to its past mistakes that it is doomed to eternatally repeat them. When will the next partition of Poland be? When will you open your next concentration camp? You've already had that nice camp the Americans told you to open!
Torq 32 | 2,999
10 Dec 2009 #169
Liar.

Liar.

You said that they were not.

I said that not all of them were Polish (and by Polish I meant
ethnicity not citizenship, which I later explained quite clearly).

You are the one who says that people can not be Polish and Jewish at the same time.

Not at all. I'm saying that it's quite difficult to be a Jew and an ethnic Pole
(although, in some very rare cases of conversion it is, of course, possible).

Anyway - we were talking from the very start about the Jewish members
of Soviet-controlled, communist government of post-WW2, Soviet-occupied
Poland, and obviously their identity had nothing to do with Poland or
polishness (see Anatol Fejgin, whom I already mentioned, as one of many
examples).

When will the next partition of Poland be? When will you open your next concentration camp? You've already had that nice camp the Americans told you to open!

Your anti-polonism is striking. I can only speculate about the sources of it, but still
I truly pity you. So much hatred, so much resentment, so much bigotry. How can
you live like that, Harry? Don't let your hatred blind you.
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #170
I said that not all of them were Polish (and by Polish I meant ethnicity not citizenship, which I later explained quite clearly).

So I said they were Polish and you said they were not. Fine. Doesn't help your claim that I said "Polish Jews were simply Poles". Nice to see you still lying about it though.

Not at all. I'm saying that it's quite difficult to be a Jew and an ethnic Pole
(although, in some very rare cases of conversion it is, of course, possible).

So prove that none of the ancestors of those people were 'ethnic Poles' who converted. Given that you'd have to go back some 20 generations, good luck.

Anyway - we were talking from the very start about the Jewish members
of Soviet-controlled, communist government of post-WW2, Soviet-occupied
Poland, and obviously their identity had nothing to do with Poland or
polishness

Yes, because to you a commie can't be a Pole. How many million Polish citizens are you now claiming can't have been proper Poles because they were commies? 3.5 million!

Your anti-polonism is striking.

I'm very pro-Poland. That is why I gave up two years of my life working for the good of the Polish state in exchange for a room and just about enough money for food. That is why I still live in Poland despite being able to do this job from anywhere in the world. That is why I still pay taxes in Poland despite being able to pay taxes anywhere in the world. That is why I want Poland to be a better place.

Unfortunately you seem to consider Poland to be a better place when it is free of everybody except white Catholics (because only they can be properly Polish).

After a few pages of dealing with you, I'm beginning to see the only reason why Hitler thought of Poles as he did: he'd met only the ones like you and Magda!
caprice49 4 | 224
10 Dec 2009 #171
[quote=Harry]Polish Jews were simply Poles".
Hmm,
So a cat having kittens in an oven makes the kittens....???
Torq 32 | 2,999
10 Dec 2009 #172
So prove that none of the ancestors of those people were 'ethnic Poles' who converted. Given that you'd have to go back some 20 generations, good luck.

You're doing it again. You're implying that the Jews in Poland were ethnic Poles
just like you did before...

They were ethnically Polish.

...even though they themselves, more often than not, didn't consider themselves
to be ethnic Poles. Who gave you the right to deny those people their Jewishness?
Oh, sorry, I forgot you were the most bigoted person on this forum.

Yes, because to you a commie can't be a Pole. How many million Polish citizens are you now claiming can't have been proper Poles because they were commies? 3.5 million!

When will you finally work on your reading comprehension?

I said that many Jewish members of the post-WW2 communist government
certainly didn't identify themselves with Poland or polishness. You refuse
to admit that even though it must be obvious to anyone reading this thread.

I'm very pro-Poland.

Seriously? I'd never say that reading your posts.
With friends like you, who needs enemies? :-)

That is why I gave up two years of my life working for the good of the Polish state in exchange for a room and just about enough money for food.

There isn't any job that you might have been doing in the past, Harry, that couldn't
have been done equally well by a Pole, so stop pretending that you did Poland any
kind of favour. You wanted to work here for the salary that you agreed to, so you
did. I know many Poles who would give a lot to be able to work in their country
for a room and enough money to feed themselves, and who would gladly come
back from emmigration if they could only support themselves after coming back.

That is why I still live in Poland despite being able to do this job from anywhere in the world. That is why I still pay taxes in Poland despite being able to pay taxes anywhere in the world.

By all means, Harry - if you feel dissapointed by Poland and Poles, DO leave.
Take your taxes, your lies and your bigotry and be a free man again.

Unfortunately you seem to consider Poland to be a better place when it is free of everybody except white Catholics (because only they can be properly Polish).

Same crap again. This is getting really boring... yaaaaawn.

I'm beginning to see the only reason why Hitler thought of Poles as he did: he'd met only the ones like you and Magda!

Why thank you, Harry.

This is what Hitler thought of Poles (after all this years of labouring for the greater
good of Poland your Polish is probably flawless so I won't bother translating it):
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #173
You're doing it again. You're implying that the Jews in Poland were ethnic Poles just like you did before...
...even though they themselves, more often than not, didn't consider themselves
to be ethnic Poles. Who gave you the right to deny those people their Jewishness?

You are the one denying them their Polishness. I'm very happy for them to be Jewish and Polish. You say they can not be Poles because they are Jewish! Prove that the member of the 1945 government did not consider themselves Polish.

There isn't any job that you might have been doing in the past, Harry, that couldn't have been done equally well by a Pole, so stop pretending that you did Poland any
kind of favour.

Really? You know my professional background do you? No, you know nothing about me. The Polish government however know it and they invited me to come to Poland and help Poland. All of your lies can not change any facts and they most certainly will never change that fact.

You wanted to work here for the salary that you agreed to, so you
did. I know many Poles who would give a lot to be able to work in their country
for a room and enough money to feed themselves, and who would gladly come
back from emmigration if they could only support themselves after coming back.

I wanted to do the job I did. The salary was of no concern at all (especially given that it was well below legal minimum wage, from memory about half of legal minimum wage). If you know many Poles who would give a lot to be able to come back to Poland and work a full-time job in exchange for a room and a salary of 633zl a month, do let me know: I can find jobs for every one of them. I can rent four room flats in Brudno for 1,600zl a month, farm their services out for legal minimum wage jobs, give them 633zl a month and come out 133zl a month ahead on each one! Send me all of the ones you have!

This is what Hitler thought of Poles

You read unattributed faded news clippings all you want. If I want to remind myself of what Hitler say, I'll read what are proven to be his own words.
Balkan power
10 Dec 2009 #174
Torq

You really believe that Hitler thought that about Poles?Have you read his official declarations in Reichstag?
frd 7 | 1,399
10 Dec 2009 #175
It kind of makes sense Torq, if that's what you mean, being a Pole doesn't have to necessarily mean "of Polish decent".
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #176
Hmm,
So a cat having kittens in an oven makes the kittens....???

Hmm, so you mean that a black person can never be, and no black person will ever be, European. Such a pity that there's no longer a Deutsche Volksliste for you to sign: if you could just find a way to pretend to be German, the Nazi party would welcome you with open arms.
Torq 32 | 2,999
10 Dec 2009 #177
The Polish government however know it and they invited me to come to Poland and help Poland.

The salary was of no concern at all (especially given that it was well below legal minimum wage, from memory about half of legal minimum wage).

Polish government invited you to Poland to help Poland and then they had the cheek
to pay you well below the legal minimum wage? But, dear heavens, that's illegal!

Pray tell, which of the past Polish governments did such a terrible thing! The press
has to be informed! People must know about this scandal!

You really believe that Hitler thought that about Poles?Have you read his official declarations in Reichstag?

He might have changed his mind after dealing with us for couple of years ;)
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #178
It kind of makes sense Torq, if that's what you mean, being a Pole doesn't have to necessarily mean "of Polish decent".

Sorry but to Torq and his ilk only white Catholics can be proper Poles.

Obviously white hetrosexual Catholics but that pretty much goes without saying. Any person with a Polish passport who is a pedal must have had his blood tainted, probably he's really a Jew.

Polish government invited you to Poland to help Poland and then they had the cheek to pay you well below the legal minimum wage? But, dear heavens, that's illegal!

Idiot. The legal minimum wage doesn't apply to certain employment groups or conditions.

And no they didn't then have the cheek: I knew exactly what I'd be earning before I signed up.
Torq 32 | 2,999
10 Dec 2009 #179
It kind of makes sense Torq, if that's what you mean, being a Pole doesn't have to necessarily mean "of Polish decent".

Of course!

However, some people of Jewish descent in post-WW2, communist government
didn't identify themselves with Poland and polishness and that's all I was saying.

https://polishforums.com/history/poland-british-unit-liberated-40539/4/#msg817297

Sorry but to Torq and his ilk only white Catholics can be proper Poles.

Obviously white hetrosexual Catholics but that pretty much goes without saying. Any person with a Polish passport who is a pedal must have had his blood tainted, probably he's really a Jew.

Yaaaaawn... *again*

Sorry, Harry - I gotta beat it and you probably have some very important job
for the Polish government to do, so I'd hate to distract you.

Idiot. The legal minimum wage doesn't apply to certain employment groups or conditions.

Still, it's scandalous that they invited a highly qualified specialist to help Poland
and paid him way below the legal minimum wage. You should sell your story to
newspapers - people should know how our government treats foreigners who
come here to help Poland on a direct request of Polish government.

Take care, Harry (and let me know in which newspaper will your story appear
so I can buy it).
Harry
10 Dec 2009 #180
However, some people of Jewish descent in post-WW2, communist government didn't identify themselves with Poland and polishness and that's all I was saying.

And round we go again! Name those Jewish members of the government and the nation with which they identified themselves.

Still, it's scandalous that they invited a highly qualified specialist to help Poland and paid him way below the legal minimum wage. You should sell your story to
newspapers - people should know how our government treats foreigners who
come here to help Poland on a direct request of Polish government.

Ever heard of Peace Corps?

By the way, Poles do now do the job which I did back in the mid 90s. I personally trained the one who does exactly the job which I used to do.

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