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What British unit liberated Poland in 1945??


enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #61
So when you said that "the Polish command in the UK have not given help to the partisans" you were in fact telling a very deliberate lie on the basis that you thought you could get away with it. OK, I'll remember that about you in the future.

There is a few lies in this thread, and some truth as well.
One of truths is:

Polish Army fought in the Battle of Britain and later on your side. Polish soldiers dies for the Queen.
And then - Britain charged us for this privilege.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
8 Dec 2009 #62
Go and read a history book. Or just go. You're either a liar or immensely ignorant:

In your case it’s the comprehension and retention of what you have read that I worry about. Do you honestly think that calling me names is going to provoke me somehow? Besides we both know what your hidden agenda is ;-) and flaming is just another tool to achieve this goal.

either way you're not welcome here.

Going back to that famous invitation issue that you’re so well known for I presume.
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
8 Dec 2009 #63
the Polish command in the UK have not given help to the partisans

that's a certain level of generalization, not a lie. I'm not a historian, you see, I'm interested though. Elżbieta Zawacka had gone to London to try and organize some resistance, had asked the Polish command why are they not helping, even with the comms, and received practically no answer. But yes, later there were parachuters, that is help.

Still, you might be personally interested why the GB planes flew over Auschvitz and had not bombed it w trzy dupy, excuse my French. AFTER the Pilecki report.

The Sosabowski thing had happen.

I am beginning to understand why Jews believe Poles hate them - because you are hard trying to make us. (can't be done, my maternal ancestors lived in Lodz, on the internal side of the Ghetto)
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
8 Dec 2009 #64
In return British newspapers targeting us as a sample parasite just because we are white europeans (read - soft target).

I was trying to say Britain was broke, I know what happened to Poland but for you to say

And after that - British government sold us to Stalin

Is not true, we could not sway the Russians or the Americans because we were nothing.

You keep bringing extra things to this thread that are irrelevant.

You stated Britain left you to Stalin, this is not true. That is all I was pointing out to you.

British friends fail admit is that they themselves fought this war for their own selfish reason and Poland is not even in the picture

Id like to know what selfish reasons we had. Our RAF was tiny and our army was tiny compared to the Polish Army. The country was not really set up to go to war for selfish reasons was it?
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #65
Is not true, we could not sway the Russians or the Americans because we were nothing.

You could try to help us. This is friendship all about isn't it? Even a gesture would be appreciated. But you didn't try.

In addition to this Britain didn't honor our dead heroes. We weren't invited for the Victory Parade (at some point third power of alliance) in London. Did Stalin forced you to this? Our generals (the same old generals who fought so bravely for the Crown) after were discharged without any pension, forced to take odd jobs. Did Roosevelt personally request this? You stole our gold just because you can.

And now you insult us, call us a parasites just because our country is poor. And you fail to spot that we are poor because in the past we choose our friends poorly and you let us down.

I understand "realpolitik" has his own rights. But spitting on us and our heroes is not a part of realpolitik.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
8 Dec 2009 #66
Our RAF was tiny and our army was tiny compared to the Polish Army. The country was not really set up to go to war for selfish reasons was it?

Very true Britain was not prepared for all out war but your politicians were gullible enough to think you can bluff your way with the Germans or appease their ambitions somehow. That’s what happened with Neville Chamberlain, seeing how this policy is not working you entered into an agreement with Poland and France thinking this might be enough to detour German expansion. Worst case scenario it would buy you some time to get ready for war which many in your government were convinced already that it’s inevitable, and in the end it did.

As for the hypothesis that you could hammer out some kind of a deal with your rival I just don’t buy it. German ambitions were great; they wanted to control the very resources and wealth that Britain depended on for their own survival. This belief in the right to have excess to those resources was not restricted by the economic necessity of the Germany at that time but also by their ideology, a God given right to the Arian race if you will. How do you reason with that? Not to mention British pride.
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
8 Dec 2009 #67
And now you insult us, call us a parasites just because our country is poor

I am 35. I will await your apology for everything you just wrote. If you feel that strong about how the UK was then leave. You are living in a country you obviously dislike.

Your view of history is particularly 1 sided. The Polish did not go to the victory parade because they said the war was not over as Poland was still occupied so they had nothing to celebrate. (Maybe not all but the ones i spoke with who settled in Derby thought this)

Who helped get Poland back in 1918? Who was nothing to do with your country being partitioned. These are also reasons your country is poor.

Your soldiers did not fight for Britain, they were fighting the Germans how ever they could. If you cant see how small the UK was at the end of the war that is your problem. Who were the 2 superpowers at the end of the war? Where was the British Empire?

Russia and America, The British Empire was gone!!!!
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
8 Dec 2009 #68
yes, Russia and America.... and they are both still aggressive and spreading their propaganda.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #69
Russia and America, The British Empire was gone!!!

In 1940 and later Poland was non-existent country. But we help you anyway.
And yes - our pilots didn't care for whom they fighting as long as they have the opportunity to kill some Germans. That's fact. Other fact is - they fought and died defending London.

And you charge us for it.

Victory Parade is other thing. More a symbol than a real thing. Among all Polish Forces only few representatives of 303 squadron were invited. And they refused. Wouldn't you do the same? I definitely would.

Please - don't get upset. It's our grandparent's business anyway.

I tell you one simple fact: British government knows about Ribbentrop-Molotow treaty as soon as it was signed. This treaty was clear sign that the war is near. And they didn't told us. British didn't warn us. Is that how friends behave? Nobody ever apologised us for this betrayal.

For that reson don't expect apologies from me.

As for "If you don't like UK - GTFO" stuff - It surprises me. I refuse to discuss on this level.
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
8 Dec 2009 #70
If you don't like UK - GTFO

Its what I did, i spend hardly any time in UK because I don't like it. What level do you think it is? If you don't like some where, get out. Simple to me.

Believe Britain hates Poland and were part of the reason you were a Soviet country.

Take my posts out of context and choose not to see my point.

Keep living in your own sweet world where reality does not reach you.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #71
Keep living in your own sweet world where reality does not reach you.

Reality is based on facts, right?

We fought and died for the UK and they charge us for it - fact
Majority of supplies intended for Warsaw Uprising were dropped on the German side - fact
Our Generals (and other serviceman) were discharged without any pension whatsoever - fact
No one represented Poland an the Victory Parade - fact
British government has knowledge about Auschwitz, but didn't do anything - fact
Our pre-war gold reserves (75 tons) disappeared in British custody - fact

I think, I have strong enough grasp of reality.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
9 Dec 2009 #72
^ You are too modest! You had your SS legion and your two SS regiments and your two SS battalions to go with the most famous Norwegian leader.

To any nationalist maybe they were mine, but as a patriot for me their all stinking traitors and I wouldn't care if they got hanged or tortured.

fact

Yepp agree on that one
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,375
9 Dec 2009 #73
To any nationalist maybe they were mine, but as a patriot for me their all stinking traitors and I wouldn't care if they got hanged or tortured.

uhoh...the mouse that roared....;)
Stop judging people...you can't know how you would had ended up!

nuav.net/volunter.html

There were many reasons why a Norwegian volunteer would want to risk his life by going to the front. The most common were:

- Disappointment with the Norwegian armed resistance during the German invasion, and the political circumstances that allowed such a weak and outdated defence policy.

- Disappointment with the King and Government going into exile in the UK, and the feeling of have being betrayed by the British and French during the German invasion.

- The fear of the communist threat from East, and the chance to take part in a "Crusade against Bolshevism"

- The fact that Norway had capitulated, and this was seen by many as the only way to re-build a new national army.

enkidu 7 | 623
9 Dec 2009 #74
Final answer (Ksysia - you can thank me later)
No one is free:
(well - to say the truth: We are free of this shame. There was no Polish SS unit)
Hey! Maybe this is the answer for question that started this thread?
"What British unit liberated Poland in 1945?"

Those brave lads are pure British and all-volunteer.
And they could be busy liberating Poland in 1945, couldn't they?
British Waffen SS uniform:

British Waffen SS

And poster
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,375
9 Dec 2009 #75
well - to say the truth: We are free of this shame.

Well....you weren't asked!
What do you think would had happened if? Do you think in whole Poland there wouldn't had been one volunteer??? ;)
(Especially if you would had been seduced with fighting against the Russians?)

The same with: "We had no Vichy" or "We had no Quisling"...you weren't asked to cooperate officially in the first place.

Poland never got any choice! But if it would had been offered a choice you can't say if there wouldn't had been any kind of cooperation, so stop finger pointing!
Nathan 18 | 1,363
9 Dec 2009 #76
Just read this article on wiki this is a good start.

I read it -it is about Munich betrayal:

On September 29, France, Britain, Germany, and Italy signed the Munich Agreement. (SHAME ON YOU!) This allowed Hitler to take the Sudetenland in exchange for him agreeing to "guarantee" Czechoslovakia's borders - but only after Poland and Hungary (which by now had joined in) had taken their shares.

Then Poland made its move. On September 27, seeing Czechoslovakia in crisis as Germany prepared to invade, Poland issued an ultimatum (what a nice moment!) demanding that Czechoslovakia cede its Tesin (Teschen) district.

Poland had been first to share in the spoils. After an ultimatum from Warsaw on September 27, 1938, Czechoslovakia had ceded to Poland the district of Tesin (Teschen) - an area of some 625 square miles with a population of 230,000 people

blogcritics.org/books/article/poland-joined-hitler-in-dismembering-czechoslovakia/

From The Illustrayed WWll Encyclopedia (volume 1)

October 1938 - annexation of Zaolzie, Górna Orawa, Jaworzyna from Czechoslovakia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Polish_Republic

What was this region that Poland annexed?

Czech side built its argumentation on historical, economic and strategic reasons, while Poland based her demand on ethnicity.

At the Paris Peace Conference (1920) Poland requested northwesternmost Spiš (including the region around Javorina). What are virtually the present-day borders were set by a conference of ambassadors held at Spa (Belgium) on 28 July 1920: Edvard Beneš agreed!!!!!!!!! to cede to Poland 13 villages (especially Nowa Biała, Jurgów and Niedzica; 195 km²; pop. 8747) in northwestern Spiš and 12 villages in northeastern Orava (around Jabłonka; 389 km²; pop. 16133), in matter of fact the Czechoslovak authorities officially regarded their inhabitants as exclusively Slovak, while Poles pointed out that the dialect used there belonged to Polish language.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_conflicts_between_Poland_and_Czechoslovakia

Why was this Czechoslovak-Polish treaty signed in 1925 not valid in 1938, when Poland invaded Czechoslovakia???
enkidu 7 | 623
9 Dec 2009 #77
Nathan
There is no such country as Czechoslovakia, therefore your argument is invalid. :-)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,914
9 Dec 2009 #78
What did Britain gain from entering the war, nothing at all.

There's a good "what if?" scenario there - if we assume that Britain didn't enter the war and instead sat on her hands, Hitler (well, the Axis) would control mainland Europe. Then what?

America would have entered WW2 regardless with Pearl Harbour - and a Britain not attempting to actually fight could become a very dangerous opponent because they would have plenty of time to mobilise without interference.

Certainly, a brutal war between the Axis and Russia would have devastated both countries - and even if Germany managed to take Moscow, their supply lines would've been under constant attack anyway from partisan forces.

Could have been interesting post-war - America would undoubtably end it with the nuclear bomb, Russia and Germany would be devastated, and from there, who knows?
1jola 14 | 1,879
9 Dec 2009 #79
There's a good "what if?" scenario there - if we assume that Britain didn't enter the war and instead sat on her hands, Hitler (well, the Axis) would control mainland Europe. Then what?

Then is would be time for Neuordnung.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_(political_system)
Torq 28 | 2,759
9 Dec 2009 #80
Well....you weren't asked!

Actually, we were...

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goralischer_Waffen_SS_Legion

Goralischer Freiwilligen Waffen SS Legion was a unit planned to reach
10 thousand men. The recrutation process started in June 1942 but,
despite the huge propaganda campaign, only 300 volunteers wanted
to join the unit, out of which 200 were accepted to join the training
camp in Trawniki.

Because of many desertions only a handful of them actually joined the SS
(the sources vary from 6 to 15 :-))))) but we know the names of only six:

SS-Sturmmann Suleja
SS-Sturmmann Duda
SS-Sturmmann Karkosz
SS-Sturmmann Mytkowicz
and Górka brothers from Nowy Targ

6 out of planned 10000 :-))))))))))))

That's Wikipedia but I've also heard about this story from my grandfather
(my father's family comes from Wadowice and Nowy Targ area). The story
was sort of a local joke many months after and, because of that failure
of forming the first Polish SS unit, Hitler allegedly said that it's a good thing
after all because if couple of thousand Poles were given rifles, they would
start shooting Germans immediately :-)

And as for British SS Units...

...what I find most shocking is the fact that Great Britain wasn't occupied,
so you can't even justify those people by saying that they wanted to avoid
the horrors of occupation, protect their families etc. etc.
They joined because of their own free will and conviction...

By the way - I'm not judging the Great Britain or its people, who generally
were very decent folk and fought nazis bravely, but only those individual
sickfcuks who joined the SS.
Wroclaw Boy
9 Dec 2009 #81
I'm not judging the Great Britain or its people, who generally
were very decent folk and fought nazis bravely, but only those individual
sickfcuks who joined the SS.

What all 25 of them, how many Polish were there 100,000?
Borrka 37 | 594
9 Dec 2009 #82
how many Polish were there 100,000?

I suggest you read this thread again and again and again.
After 10 times you will be able to answer the question.
I hope at least.
1jola 14 | 1,879
9 Dec 2009 #83
Out of interest to some:

A documentary on the Brits who fought for Hitler tittled "The Brits who Fought for Hitler":

quicksilverscreen.com/watch?video=32928
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
9 Dec 2009 #84
I think, I have strong enough grasp of reality.

I said your statement about Britain leaving you to the Soviets was untrue.
You write so much that is not fact.
Your people fought for Poland, you could only carry on the fight in an un occupied country. How many un occupied countries were there in Europe that were in the fight? Britain did not fight for just Britain, we fought for all decent people in Europe, including Germans, to free them from the Nazi's.

Granted a by product was the Soviets took over Eastern Europe and for them the war finished in 1989.
What should the British have done about Auschwitz? Bombed it and killed more people in the camp than the Nazi's?
Dropping things by parachute is not an exact science, even now things in Afganistan fall to the Taliban.

Like I said, get back to reality. Britain tried to help Poland in 1939 and look at the thanks we get from people like you.

I'm so glad you live in UK so I will never meet you in Poland.
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #85
Victory Parade is other thing. More a symbol than a real thing. Among all Polish Forces only few representatives of 303 squadron were invited.

We weren't invited for the Victory Parade (at some point third power of alliance) in London. Did Stalin forced you to this?

Please get your lies straight Magda. Poles were invited to the Victory Parade, both 'Free' Poles and the government of Poland. Neither bothered to send any representatives. But Poles have lied about not being invited ever since. You're pathetic.

Reality is based on facts, right?

Your reality is clearly based on lies.
1. Lie: you fought for Poland. And then didn't pay the bill for all that you had used.
2. If you'd planned the Uprising better, you might have liberated enough area to have paracutes dropped into.
3. Lie: your generals were welcome to return to Poland and claim their pension. Why should Polish generals who've paid nothing into the UK pension pot get British pensions? Oh, sorry, I forgot how Poles view the British benefits system. These days a Polish who has paid nothing into the UK benefits pot can claim from the system and that's how you think it should have been in 1945.

4. Lie. The military attache of the Polish embassy attended. You should have had more representation at the parade but that would have involved not dramatically rejecting your invites (and not being able to lie about it for years afterwards), so I can see why you didn't.

5. What should they have done? Tried to bomb it? What did the Polish armed forces do to stop the camp? Nothing, not even try to sabotage the rail links.

6. Lie. Some of your gold disappeared while in French custody. The gold entrusted to Britain was returned to Poland less what Poland agreed to pay for its forces and their upkeep.

Those brave lads are pure British and all-volunteer.
And they could be busy liberating Poland in 1945, couldn't they?
British Waffen SS uniform:

Yet more lies. The British Free Corps was not purely British and they could not have been busy liberating Poland because they never saw any action at all and they never even went to Poland!

Because of many desertions only a handful of them actually joined the SS
(the sources vary from 6 to 15 :-))))) but we know the names of only six:

I can tell you the names of two more straight off the top of my head Anthony Sawoniuk (who joined a Belarussian Waffen SS Unit before changing sides when he saw which way the wind was blowing) and Bronislaw Hajda (who according to a US judge "without doubt" committed war crimes while working as an SS guard at Treblinka).

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/309937.stm
I'm sure that there are thousands more Poles who were in the SS and like Sawoniuk slipped under the radar but unlike Sawoniuk had no reason to be hunted down. We know that more than a third of the Polish forces in the west were previously in the German armed forces: the idea that none of them were SS is laughable!
Borrka 37 | 594
9 Dec 2009 #86
I can tell you the names of two more straight off the top of my head Anthony Sawoniuk (who joined a Belarussian Waffen SS Unit before changing sides when he saw which way the wind was blowing) and Bronislaw Hajda

Sure "Andriusza Sawoniuk" makes a typical Polish name lol.
Same goes for Hajda.
And maybe you have heard pre-ww2 Poland had 30% minorities including Germans ?
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #87
Oh, I get it: the old 'good Pole, bad foreigner' routine. The 'if they were good they were Polish but if they were bad, they were just foreigners who happened to once live in Poland'. What a wonderful excuse for you.

Sawoniuk was a Pole. He was born in Poland to Polish parents. He was discharged from the Polish army. He was caught because in the 1959 he sent a letter to his brother Mikołaj who lived in Poland. By that time Poland had cleansed its soil of its ethnic minorities, so what was Mikołaj doing there? Answer: he was Polish too.

The inability of Poles to deal with their past actions goes a long way to explaining why they usually repeat their past mistakes.
Borrka 37 | 594
9 Dec 2009 #88
Sawoniuk was a Pole. He was born in Poland to Polish parents.

Any proofs ?
It will be the first time I hear of a Pole named Andriusza.
Interesting.

By that time Poland had cleansed its soil of its ethnic minorities,

False.

The rest of your posting contents no arguments.
Words only.
Torq 28 | 2,759
9 Dec 2009 #89
Anthony Sawoniuk

You mean Андрэй Саванюк?

Sawoniuk was a Pole. He was born in Poland to Polish parents.

Andrei Andreeovich Sawoniuk was a Belarussian peasant, born in Domachevo,
Belarus (then a part of Poland) to Belarussian parents.

who joined a Belarussian Waffen SS Unit

Exactly.

his brother Mikołaj

The article you posted a link to says "half-brother".

what was Mikołaj doing there?

Many Belarussians and Ukrainians remained in Poland after the war
(a lot of them were resettled to Pomerania region for example - I know
three of them and their families personally).

The inability of Poles to deal with their past actions goes a long way to explaining why they usually repeat their past mistakes.

What mistakes? We fought nazis from the first until the last day of the war.

Sure, there were a couple of bad eggs, traitors, scumbags, but every nation
has them and generally Poland, as a country, has nothing to be ashamed of
as regrads the struggle against nazis.
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #90
It will be the first time I hear of a Pole named Andriusza.

Sure thing. Check the wikipedia entry for him: born in Poland to Polish parents.

Andrei Andreeovich Sawoniuk was a Belarussian peasant, born in Domachevo.

Wow! You Poles sure do know how to make excuses! Not only was he not a Pole but the place where he was born was only "then a part of Poland"! It wasn't properly Poland, it just happened to be in Poland for a short time, right?

who joined a Belarussian Waffen SS Unit

Which Polish SS unit was a good anti-semite going to join?

The article you posted a link to says "half-brother".

It actually says both brother and half-brother in different places. Good to see the BBC is still bang on the money.
independent.co.uk/news/nazis-hired-killer-who-lay-low-for-50-years-1084566.html
This source however has him as half-brother. That same source states that he had a Polish mother but makes no mention of his father's nationality.

Hmm, born in Poland (or what had recently become Poland) to a Polish parent and a parent of unknown/uncertain nationality, fought for Poland, had a brother who lived in Poland, sounds very much like Nicolaus Copernicus. You Poles love to claim him, so I guess you get Sawoniuk too.

I know three of them and their families personally

Me too. My girlfriend is one of them. First time I met her grandfather despite the fact that he was in his late 70s he challenged me to a fight for saying that he must be Ukrainian if he was born in Ukraine (I'd not been in Poland long). He was a proud Pole.

but every nation has them and generally Poland, as a country, has nothing to be ashamed of as regrads the struggle against nazis.

A couple?! Tens of thousands. At least that many we know about, who knows how many more there were?

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