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What British unit liberated Poland in 1945??


enkidu 7 | 623
9 Dec 2009 #91
Please get your lies straight Magda. Poles were invited to the Victory Parade, both 'Free' Poles and the government of Poland. Neither bothered to send any representatives. But Poles have lied about not being invited ever since. You're pathetic.

I see, Hellen, that you check every single of my words. Good. :-) The only invitation was sent to few surviving representatives of 303 squadron.

Your reality is clearly based on lies.
1. Lie: you fought for Poland. And then didn't pay the bill for all that you had used.

Unfortunately there was no Poland at this time. There was only burning London behind their back.

2. If you'd planned the Uprising better, you might have liberated enough area to have paracutes dropped into.

Re-think it again, Hellen.

3. Lie: your generals were welcome to return to Poland and claim their pension. Why should Polish generals who've paid nothing into the UK pension pot get British pensions? Oh, sorry, I forgot how Poles view the British benefits system. These days a Polish who has paid nothing into the UK benefits pot can claim from the system and that's how you think it should have been in 1945.

Polish Generals were welcomed to return to Poland, then being imprisoned and executed. Some of them actually took this route. And what they "paid into the UK system"? They paid with their blood and death of their friends and families. I see, Hellen, that gratitude is strange concept for you. ;-)

4. Lie. The military attache of the Polish embassy attended. You should have had more representation at the parade but that would have involved not dramatically rejecting your invites (and not being able to lie about it for years afterwards), so I can see why you didn't.

Yeap. An I am sure that some "Jasio Kowalski" was in London at the time. So what?
No Polish unit was invited to celebrate victory. Representatives of 303 sq. are not the unit.

5. What should they have done? Tried to bomb it? What did the Polish armed forces do to stop the camp? Nothing, not even try to sabotage the rail links.

To bomb it "w trzy dupy" (forgive my French) would be good idea. I am sure that people down there would be grateful for quick death.

As for your second question:

6. Lie. Some of your gold disappeared while in French custody. The gold entrusted to Britain was returned to Poland less what Poland agreed to pay for its forces and their upkeep.

The first document I linked in this thread is official "agreement" from archives. I trust this document more than your opinion.

Yet more lies. The British Free Corps was not purely British and they could not have been busy liberating Poland because they never saw any action at all and they never even went to Poland!

Well... If there was any British soldier liberating Poland in 1945 - most probably that he was a member of this merry SS gang. This is the best answer for the title question.

I'm sure that there are thousands more Poles who were in the SS and like Sawoniuk slipped under the radar but unlike Sawoniuk had no reason to be hunted down. We know that more than a third of the Polish forces in the west were previously in the German armed forces: the idea that none of them were SS is laughable!

This is a good feeling to be sure about something, isn't it? And you laugh so easily. Surely you have got access to some not-yet-known historical facts, maybe even documents. Will you share this with us?

Or maybe - it's just your imagination.
Well, Hellen?
Borrka 37 | 594
9 Dec 2009 #92
Cheap demagogy like commie trained eristic.
You must try harder Harry.
Bye - it's too boring.
Torq 32 | 2,999
9 Dec 2009 #93
Tens of thousands.

Let's assume for a moment that you are right. No - let's go even further,
forget the ridiculous "tens of thousands" - let's make it even more ridiculous
ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND :-)

Still - this 100 thousand is only 0.28% of 35 million pre-war Polish population.

I wish that Poland today had only 0.28% villains and scumbags among its population :-)
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #94
The only invitation was sent to few surviving representatives of 303 squadron.

So your first statement was a lie. OK.
General Anders (to whom the invitation was sent) disagrees with you about both the number and the squadron. He says in his memoirs that more than a third of the pilots who flew in the Polish squadrons during the battle of Britain were invited.

Polish Generals were welcomed to return to Poland, then being imprisoned and executed.

So instead they should have been supported by the British taxpayer? No, if they want to stay in a nation which is not theirs, let them at least go out and get a job.

Well... If there was any British soldier liberating Poland in 1945 - most probably that he was a member of this merry SS gang. This is the best answer for the title question.

Lie, lie and keep lying eh? Give us some proof that the BFC (which you've already been caught lying about) was ever in Poland or ever saw combat. Not a single member of the BFC ever saw combat while in the BFC.

Surely you have got access to some not-yet-known historical facts, maybe even documents. Will you share this with us?

sjam's got plenty of documents. Ask him. As for the unknown facts, it seems that there are a great many facts which are unknown to you, such as that more than a third of the pilots who flew in the Polish squadrons during the battle of Britain were invited to the London Victory parade that you claim no Poles were invited to.
enkidu 7 | 623
9 Dec 2009 #95
Harry
Dear Hellen,

I see, you are obsessed by the word "lie". Is it compulsive? Maybe you should fight this habit by repeating another word? How about the word "tomato"? I am not a doctor - maybe you should visit one?

P.S. If you prefer to repeat some shorter words - "milk" is a nice word.
:-)
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #96
As you can no longer make a post with even a single word addressing the facts (such as that more than a third of the pilots who flew in the Polish squadrons during the battle of Britain were invited to the London Victory parade that you claim no Poles were invited to) and instead can only post insults and attempts to make me insult you so you can go running to the mods yet again, I'm sure we can all conclude that you now wish to leave this thread and don't want us to notice that you do so with your tail very much between your legs. Goodbye.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
9 Dec 2009 #97
Actually, we were...

That would be news! :)

No, Poles weren't. The Goralenvolk weren't seen as Poles by the Nazis...they were seen and treated like Ukrainians for example.
(Himmler thought the Gorale were some old germanic tribe, our "highlanders" so to speak. They became part of the plan to germanize Poland.)

But them and the Ukrainians didn't worked well together (for example at Trawniki)...more hassle for the Germans than anything else...;)
enkidu 7 | 623
9 Dec 2009 #98
Harry
No Unit of Polish Army (249000 soldiers) was represented on Victory Parade.
That is the fact. Even you can't change it.
Goodbye Hellen.
Torq 32 | 2,999
9 Dec 2009 #99
The Goralenvolk weren't seen as Poles by the Nazis

Yeah, Goralenvolk weren't seen as Poles just like the Schlesienvolk weren't, nor the
Kaschubenvolk nor Masurenvolk nor God-Knows-What-Volk have Germans invented
in their futile attempts to win some Poles for their cause during WW2.

It was probably only Poles from Warsaw that weren't seen by Germans as some
kind of their "volk". If you were living outside Warsaw, the chances that you
belonged to some kind of a "volk" increased dramatically :-)

I would tell my grandfather that he wasn't really Polish, but regrettably he's
dead (Lord bless His soul) and can't kick my ass for telling him such nonsense :-)

Himmler thought the Gorale were some old germanic tribe

That's strange, considering the fact that they spoke a dialect of Polish language
and were always loyal to Poland throughout history.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
9 Dec 2009 #100
Torq

Hey...not my fault, take it to Himmler...he decided who was German or not, who was Polish or not...crazy guy.

It would had confused people to see so called "subhumans" fighting in the elite formations for a dubious future for their people. I mean what should a Pole had to gain? What should the Nazis had promised him?. ;)
Torq 32 | 2,999
9 Dec 2009 #101
I mean what should a Pole had to gain? What should the Nazis had promised him?

However - if the very same Pole was said to be a member of Goralenvolk,
Schlesienvolk, Masurenvolk or Kaschubienvolk - that changed the entire
situation drastically...

...yip - makes sense :-)
Borrka 37 | 594
9 Dec 2009 #102
The Goralenvolk weren't seen as Poles by the Nazis.

But they were Poles in spite of German wishful thinking. They simple didn't want to become a part of "Herrenvolk" like a huge majority of us.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
9 Dec 2009 #103
...yip - makes sense :-)

...that were the Nazis we are talking here! ;)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goralenvolk

On the whole Himmlers tries to incorporate soldiers from around Europe into his SS were of doubtful success.
In the end the most successfull formations were the german, dutch, scandinavian and french divisions (Leibstandarte, das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Charlemagne etc.) where others from eastern or southern Europe could be more or less smoked in a pipe.

The Goralenvolk were just one of many "disappointments" for him...
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #104
No Unit of Polish Army (249000 soldiers) was represented on Victory Parade.
That is the fact. Even you can't change it.

No unit of the US Army was represented at the London Victory Parade. Only army and navy units from British Empire/Commonwealth nations were invited. But you'll never hear Americans ******** and whining about that. Although at least now you've stopped with your lie that no Poles were invited.

And seeing as the chances that a member of the western command Polish army was formerly in the German armed forces were more than one in three, are you surprised that the Polish army wasn't invited?

It was probably only Poles from Warsaw that weren't seen by Germans as some kind of their "volk".

An interesting argument but one which is somewhat let down by the number of Jewish Poles that the Nazis considered to be 'volk'. From memory those people were far more numerous in the Lublin/Zamosc region than the Warsaw region.
Torq 32 | 2,999
9 Dec 2009 #105
Nazis considered Polish Jews to be their "volk"? That's interesting, Harry.

the chances that a member of the western command Polish army was formerly in the German armed forces were more than one in three

The number of soldiers in Polish armed forces in the West in May 1945 was
about 210 thousand. You are saying that over 70 thousand of them were
former Wehrmacht soldiers.

You better have some serious sources to support your ridiculous claim
or you will lose any kind of credibility that you may still have, Harry.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polskie_Si%C5%82y_Zbrojne_na_Zachodzie
enkidu 7 | 623
9 Dec 2009 #106
No unit of the US Army was represented at the London Victory Parade. Only army and navy units from British Empire/Commonwealth nations were invited.

This is Greek honor guard.
(I didn't know that Greece is a part of Commonwealth)

yeah
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #107
Nazis considered Polish Jews to be their "volk"? That's interesting, Harry.

Of course they did not! My point was that your theory about "it was probably only Poles from Warsaw that weren't seen by Germans as some kind of their "volk". " falls down when one looks at the number of Polist Jews considered to be Volk.

How about the doctoral thesis of Dr Mark Ostrowski? "To Return To Poland Or Not To Return" - The Dilemma Facing The Polish Armed Forces At The End Of The Second World War states that of the 249,000 western command Poles 89,300 joined after deserting from German Forces. I don't have a link to the source which Dr Ostrowski is quoting from but sjam can provide you with the name of it.

However, Dr Ostrowski's figures do not include the number of Poles who were in the German armed forces and joined up in place of dead soldiers when captured by western command Poles and assumed the identities of the dead soldiers. Apparently this practice was fairly common during the Normandy campaign.

This is Greek honor guard.
(I didn't know that Greece is a part of Commonwealth)

Congratulations Magda. You will note that that is not a unit of the Greek army being represented: it is the honour guard to the Greek flag. Poland could have had exactly the same representation (plus representatives of both Polish airforces) but the Poles didn't show up (and have been lying about it ever since).
Piorun - | 658
9 Dec 2009 #108
You will note that that is not a unit of the Greek army being represented: it is the honour guard to the Greek flag. Poland could have had exactly the same representation

Face the truth man; you just like man wearing skirts. Could have, would have, should have, yet none of it happened.

but the Poles didn't show up

It’s not right for the gentleman to show up at a party uninvited.
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #109
It’s not right for the gentleman to show up at a party uninvited.

And yet another Pole trots out the old lie! Why can't you Poles just admit that you were invited but that some of you were too cowardly to come (the eastern command Poles) and some of you thought that you were too special to come (the western command Poles)?
Piorun - | 658
9 Dec 2009 #110
some of you thought that you were too special to come

Some of us observed the British etiquette. No invite, no show. You know when in Rome… It just would not be proper crashing the gracious hosts’ party.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
9 Dec 2009 #111
And yet another Pole trots out the old lie! Why can't you Poles just admit that you were invited but that some of you were too cowardly to come (the eastern command Poles) and some of you thought that you were too special to come (the western command Poles)?

Well...maybe we can put this question down to rest once and for all:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Armed_Forces_in_the_West#General_history

Yes, the Poles were invited officially (after much pressure it seems).

No, most of the Poles didn't show up for good reasons!

...They in turn refused to attend in protest at similar invitations not being extended to the Polish Army and Navy. The only Polish representative at the parade was Colonel Józef Kuropieska - the military attaché of the Communist regime in Warsaw who attended as a diplomatic courtesy.[4]..

Can we all have a beer now?
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #112
Some of us observed the British etiquette. No invite, no show.

Actually you were too rude to observe any etiqutte at all. The western command Poles were too special to attend unless everybody could know how special they were and the eastern command Poles were too cowardly to attend (although they did of course take part in the Moscow victory parade).
time means 5 | 1,310
9 Dec 2009 #113
Can we all have a beer now?

Yeah come on, it was all a long time ago.

British, Polish or German though? :-)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
9 Dec 2009 #114
British, Polish or German though? :-)

Manno....always these decisions! ;)
Piorun - | 658
9 Dec 2009 #115
and the eastern command Poles were too cowardly to attend (although they did of course take part in the Moscow victory parade).

Speaking of cowardly. For the fear of offending Uncle Joe British failed to issue invite in the first place..
Nathan 18 | 1,363
9 Dec 2009 #116
There is no such country as Czechoslovakia, therefore your argument is invalid. :-)

This is all you have found to answer my post? When you were stealing land with Nazis, this country existed. Nazi Germany is not there anymore, does it mean that there is no value of talking about concentration camps and all statements that there were such camps are invalid?
Torq 32 | 2,999
9 Dec 2009 #117
Bowing to press and public pressure, the British eventually invited
representatives of the Polish Air Force under British Command

Oh, how very kind of the British to finally, eventually, after press and
public pressure
to invite the men who fought and died alongside them.
I can see why our representatives weren't eager to take part after such invitation.

If someone invited me somewhere, eventually, bowing to press and public pressure
I would most likely tell him to stick the invitation up his bum.
time means 5 | 1,310
9 Dec 2009 #118
British to finally, eventually, after press and
public pressure

Would that be the BRITISH PRESS and the BRITISH PUBLIC? Surely recognition from the people is better than no recognition from the political class/establishment.
Harry
9 Dec 2009 #119
Speaking of cowardly. For the fear of offending Uncle Joe British failed to issue invite in the first place.

You mean they directed to the government of Poland which the people of Poland were to frightened of to replace for more than two generations. The invitation to the western command Poles came later and was issued despite the wishes of Uncle Joe.

The Polish invitation went out on the same date as all the others. The one which had to be directed to Poland to show how special Poland is came later.

But hey, your representatives certainly were eager to take part in the Moscow parade, weren't they? Poland taking her place in the new world order and signing up to the Warsaw pact before it even existed. No wonder the Soviets knew they could rely on Poland to invade Czechoslovakia for the second time in 30 years.
Torq 32 | 2,999
9 Dec 2009 #120
Would that be the BRITISH PRESS and the BRITISH PUBLIC? Surely recognition from the people is better than no recognition from the political class/establishment.

Absolutely! However, the invitation was issued in this disgraceful way not by
the British press and public but by the British authorities and our soldiers were
right not to accept it.

I never said a bad word about the average Brit. The overwhelming majority
of them were very decent fellows and they fought nazis bravely.

You mean they directed to the government of Poland which the people of Poland were to frightened of to replace for more than two generations.

But hey, your representatives certainly were eager to take part in the Moscow parade, weren't they? Poland taking her place in the new world order and signing up to the Warsaw pact before it even existed. No wonder the Soviets knew they could rely on Poland to invade Czechoslovakia for the second time in 30 years.

I refuse to believe that you're that stupid. You're just being vicious, therefore
I will not reply to this.

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