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What British unit liberated Poland in 1945??


ShortHairThug - | 1,103
8 Dec 2009 #31
the vast majority of material was a gift from the UK and the USA.

It was not a gift. There were deals that were made sure enough and we lived up to our obligations whatever the terms and conditions of those deals were. Your point is as valid as the title of this thread.

until 29 December 2006

Excuse me, it seems I was wrong it's not 70's it's

until 29 December 2006

Steveramsfan 2 | 306
8 Dec 2009 #32
Which means that not only was it paying off Poland's war debt, it was at the same time gifting Poland bucketloads of money via the EU

If we stuck to our promise of Poland regaining its original borders we would not have to pay so much to get Poland back on track. Look at how much money Portugal got, how much Holland got.

We tried to make up for our mistakes and it cost us a lot of money. It is no ones fault but the British Politicians. Hmmm... Ive heard that before.
Harry
8 Dec 2009 #33
If we stuck to our promise of Poland regaining its original borders we would not have to pay so much to get Poland back on track.

There was no promise at all made with regard to Poland's borders! That there was is just another of the classical Polish lies they love to tell.
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
8 Dec 2009 #34
That there was is just another of the classical Polish lies they love to tell.

Funny it was an English historian that wrote some of the books i read that stated this.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #35
I'm not sure why that upsets you, enkidu? there was an agreement signed between ours and theirs commands, that we pay for ourselves. you should be proud that we didn't take money.

You get me wrong. I am not upset. I just confider this fact (Yes Harry - this is fact) worth to remember.
Many of Polish soldiers has died defending this islands. They didn't ask who will pay them and where. Among others 303 Polish Fighter Squadron members. They did their duty.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._303_Polish_Fighter_Squadron

And after that - British government sold us to Stalin an send us a bill. They count every bullet, every uniform, every meal. They charged us even for docking fees for Polish ships. The same ships that fought to protect their island.

I hope you understand - i don't oppose the fact, that Polish Army had used that bullets. The point is - they used those bullets to protect United Kingdom sovereignty. Many of them died in the process. Charging us for it is just not right.

That make me proud of being Polish. And that makes me ashamed that we chooses our friends so poorly.

How it was paid? Simple. About 75 tons of Polish gold reserve has been transfered to London in 1940 and deposited there. After war British government knows that we are to weak under Stalin's boot (to whom they shamelessly sold us on Jalta conference) to claim it back. So - they keep it. PDF document I linked in my previous post is official document that legalized this theft.

For those who are interested: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
8 Dec 2009 #36
yes, I know about the bullion.
I think it is the same story as why the Polish command in the UK have not given help to the partisans.
I wish the Brits would open their archives, but they've just decided not to.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
8 Dec 2009 #37
There was no promise at all made with regard to Poland's borders

Forget the borders Harry, enlighten us on how much we owe you again, perhaps how British units liberated Poland in 1945. Perhaps the topic that was mentioned already here like "The Royal Air force flew some missions to Warsaw from Italy to parachute supplies to the Warsaw Uprising in August 1945" and how those missions were done by all Polish volunteers and at whose initiative, except for the first one and how the Brits said no more scrapping the project. Who paid for those missions. Go on enlighten us.
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
8 Dec 2009 #38
British government sold us to Stalin

Read the un biased history books better. Britain were powerless by the end of the war. America wanted Soviet help with Japan so Stalin held all the cards.

We paid America back the money we were given until 2006. By 1945 Britain was broke and not able to defend Poland from Stalin.

If we were not Poland's friends we would not have gone to war with Germany and you would now be part of Germany. WW2 ruined Britain to try and help Poland.

and how those missions were done by all Polish volunteers and at whose initiative, except for the first one and how the Brits said no more scrapping the project.

The British are not Americans. Stalin stopped the British from Landing in Russia and the Americans refused to do fighter escort all the way back to England.

My Grandma's first Boyfriend was not Polish and took part in the missions, he died trying to help the People of Poland.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
8 Dec 2009 #39
WW2 ruined Britain to try and help Poland.

That it did, but don't delude yourself the the motive for British entry into the war was Poland. We were allies in that war let's just leave it at that.

My Grandma's first Boyfriend was not Polish and took part in the missions, he died trying to help the People of Poland.

Hence why I said "except". I don't want to diminish the role anyone played or how valiant their role might have been taking part in those missions. There's lot of dirty politics in war and this fiasco is no exception.
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
8 Dec 2009 #40
That it did, but don't delude yourself

You think I'm deluded? We were allies from before the war. What size Army did Britain have on 3 Sept 1939?
time means 5 | 1,310
8 Dec 2009 #41
but don't delude yourself the the motive for British entry into the war was Poland.

Really! What was it then?

What did Britain gain from entering the war, nothing at all.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #42
Read the un biased history books better. Britain were powerless by the end of the war. America wanted Soviet help with Japan so Stalin held all the cards.

I understand that.
My point is - our nations were friends. We did everything possible to help you. When the time comes you show us nothing but contempt. That wasn't required by Stalin or US. It was your own choice. Friend in need is a friend indeed.
Harry
8 Dec 2009 #43
About 75 tons of Polish gold reserve has been transfered to London in 1940 and deposited there.

Yet another lie from you, you really are on form! That gold was mainly returned to Poland, partly used to pay part of the Polish war debt to the UK and partly used to support the 'Free' Polish forces in the UK after the war. Funny how you fail to mention that Britain's own gold was in the same place as Poland's: Canada. And how you fail to mention that the majority of the Polish war debt was written off.

yes, I know about the bullion.

You appear to know less than nothing. Never even heard of the Cichociemni? The fact that you haven't says a lot about why you believe lies from people such as enkidu.

Go on enlighten us.

Who paid for those missions? Nobody. Those missions didn't exist.

But I do like the way that you try to deny the existance of the men of No. 148 and No. 178 RAF Squadrons and No. 31 and No. 34 Squadrons of the South African Air Force who actually flew the majority of the resupply missions to the Warsaw uprising of 1944.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
8 Dec 2009 #44
What did Britain gain from entering the war

It's not what Britain gained, it's what Britain lost anyway. You honestly think that Germans would make a deal with you and let you keep you Empire? Poland was insignificant then as it is now, simply not worth to have a major war over and potentially lose everything. Too much of a risk and I never said British politicians lacked a common sense. the deal you had with us was to show Germany you will not stand for what they wanted to achieve and show them you're still a player on international arena.
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
8 Dec 2009 #45
It was your own choice. Friend in need is a friend indeed.

America wanted everything back from us but they were our friends. There were people in our government, there still are, who just want money for themselves.

Britain was still on rationing for a few years after the war, we were broke. I for one don't begrudge Poland all the money that we give to you via the EU or the fact there are so many Poles in Britain now. We owe Poland a lot for carrying on the fight after Poland was occupied.

It is not fair to say Britain left you to Stalin. Look at who came out of WW2 with the most.

You honestly think that Germans would make a deal with you and let you keep you Empire?

See above.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
8 Dec 2009 #46
But I do like the way that you try to deny the existance of the men

Read again, you might even see except for the first mission in there somewhere.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #47
That gold was mainly returned to Poland, partly used to pay part of the Polish war debt to the UK and partly used to support the 'Free' Polish forces in the UK after the war.

Maybe you will understand that - this "Polish war debt" as you call it is nonexistent. Why? Simply because this is money spent to protect YOUR own country. Polish Free forces didn't fought for Poland. We gain independence in 1989 not in 1945. Those people has fought for your country and has died for it. And you charge Poland for it.Do you really think this is right?
Harry
8 Dec 2009 #48
Read again, you might even see except for the first mission in there somewhere.

And there's your lie again for the second time. The majority of the missions were made by the RAF and SAAF. The first missions were made by Polish pilots and they were subsequently joined by British and South African pilots. Go look at the names and dates on tombstones in the British military cemetries in Poland.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
8 Dec 2009 #49
Those people has fought for your country and has died for it. And you charge Poland for it.Do you really think this is right?

Those people as you put it fought for Poland, just because it turned out like it did at the end dose not mean they fought for Britain simply because. Our soldiers motivation was free and independent Poland no if or but about it. Anything to fight the Germans, if on British behalf so be it. What our British friends fail admit is that they themselves fought this war for their own selfish reason and Poland is not even in the picture just some convenient excuse.
Harry
8 Dec 2009 #50
What our British friends fail admit is that they themselves fought this war for their own selfish reason and Poland is not even in the picture just some convenient excuse.

Yes, that's why we invaded Poland in September of 1939 to start the thing.

Go and read a history book. Or just go. You're either a liar or immensely ignorant: either way you're not welcome here.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #51
It is not fair to say Britain left you to Stalin. Look at who came out of WW2 with the most.

We were still on rationing until 1986-or-so simply because everything was forcibly exported to Soviet Union.
Funny fact about EU is that we are still (5 years after joining) a netto payer to the EU budget.
Polish immigrants in the UK (like myself) are usually hard working people. We pay taxes and respect your tradition. In return British newspapers targeting us as a sample parasite just because we are white europeans (read - soft target).

And I don't think you owe us anything except little respect.

And Harry - I hope you are aware of the fact that most supplies for Warsaw Uprising was dropped "accidentally" on the German side? And "Cichociemni" wera all Polish?

Really people - this is 2009. Lesson has been learned.
Just read this article on wiki this is a good start. Nobody expecting you to agree with that. Just read it.
Borrka 37 | 594
8 Dec 2009 #52
I hope you are aware of the fact that most supplies for Warsaw Uprising was dropped "accidentally" on the German side?

No need for this kind of sarcasm.
RAF pilots helping 1944 Uprising are respected war-time heroes in Warsaw.
Harry
8 Dec 2009 #53
And I don't think you owe us anything except little respect.

Why should people respect anybody who lies about them? You lie about Britain so you get no respect from the British.

I hope you are aware of the fact that most supplies for Warsaw Uprising was dropped "accidentally" on the German side?

I love that use of "accidentally". What are you trying to say here? That British people were so anti-Polish that they dropped ammunition to the Germans instead? No wonder the British people that meet you know that you are scum and treat you accordingly. Pity that you despoil the image of Poles in the process.
Torq 32 | 2,999
8 Dec 2009 #54
RAF pilots helping 1944 Uprising are respected war-time heroes in Warsaw.

That is correct, Borrka. They risked and sometimes lost their lives to help
Warsaw insurgents.

Enkidu's remark was completely out of order.
Harry
8 Dec 2009 #55
Enkidu's remark was completely out of order.

And she wonders why nobody in England gives her any respect!

Isn't it obvious Magda?
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #56
I love that use of "accidentally". What are you trying to say here? That British people were so anti-Polish that they dropped ammunition to the Germans instead?

I am going to say that somehow this is how it is. In other words - a fact. I don't think that anyone would have interest in re-supplying Germans. That's why I presume that it was accident that majority of supplies were dropped on the wrong side. You couldn't betrayal us in this way, could you?

And who the hell is Magda?
Borrka 37 | 594
8 Dec 2009 #57
In other words - a fact.

Your posting means some wrong suggestion.
I'm Warsaw born.
Members of my Family fighted in 1944 Uprising.
Already as a child I knew all Yanks, Britons, South-Africans supplying Warsaw have done their best.
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
8 Dec 2009 #58
You appear to know less than nothing. Never even heard of the Cichociemni? The fact that you haven't says a lot about why you believe lies from people such as enkidu.

assumptions, Harry. In fact my Grandmother and her sister hosted the parachuters in her home. After the war she was asked about money given to her, but she was shocked, because' she has never asked for money and been given any.

That is of course referring to what I remarked earlier, that Polish command in London did not give help to the partisans. It's not saying that 'GB is evil', no. It to say that life is not a propaganda poster.

That British people were so anti-Polish that they dropped ammunition to the Germans instead?

Well for one thing Montgomery dropped Sosabowski in front of two divisions of Waffen-SS in Arnhem, because he never liked him.

And really - GB entered the war to protect the colonies against German colonization. You only chose to use the idiots and traitors in our sorry-ass government to make Poland the battlefield for it. I bet you remunerated the traitors well, since they didn't give a damn about the partisans. As referred by Elżbieta Zawacka.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Dec 2009 #59
I'm not Magda so I'd best not speak for her.
Watch your word, mister!
Harry
8 Dec 2009 #60
In fact my Grandmother and her sister hosted the parachuters in her home.

So when you said that "the Polish command in the UK have not given help to the partisans" you were in fact telling a very deliberate lie on the basis that you thought you could get away with it. OK, I'll remember that about you in the future.

Well for one thing Montgomery dropped Sosabowski in front of two divisions of Waffen-SS in Arnhem, because he never liked him.

That's a classless lie even by your rapidly sinking standards. Unless of course you want to blame Montgomery for the Poles not taking the correct codebooks with them.

And really - GB entered the war to protect the colonies against German colonization. You only chose to use the idiots and traitors in our sorry-ass government to make Poland the battlefield for it.

I am beginning to understand why Hitler consider Poles as fit only to be worked to death, he must have met only ones like you.

Go away and learn a little bit about Nazi aims. Here's a hint for you: the British empire was to be admired and copied.

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