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What British unit liberated Poland in 1945??


Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
4 Jan 2010 #361
The rest of your post is fantasy stuff! :)

Why?

Poland had neither the size, nor the human capital to could have hoped to match Germany or Russia...chosing to play the game like them to their rules could only spell doom.

Poland should have chosen a form of warfare which played to their strengths like bravery, independence, cunning...a form of guerilla warfare would had made things barely worse than trying to cope with the german and russian juggernauts with conventional warfare.

They just were never big enough!

But they could have pestered both enormously...after all for the Germans the most hated enemy in the russian steppes weren't the russian troops but the partisans who blew up all the logistics the army needed.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,268
4 Jan 2010 #362
Poles tend to be very good at forgetting important facts when it comes to history.

I do wonder what on earth they're teaching in schools - some bias is understandable, but the utter ignorance of most Polish people as to the cold, hard facts of what went on between 1918-1948 does make you wonder.

I can't help but think that the sentimental rubbish associated with the 2nd Polish Republic has a lot to do with it.

Poland had neither the size, nor the human capital to could have hoped to match Germany or Russia...chosing to play the game like them to their rules could only spell doom.

This is what still amazes me - Poles don't seem to accept it, but there was no way she could win any war with either the Soviet Union or Germany. Sure, Poland won in 1920 - but she was on the verge of defeat, too. Heck, the fact that it's called "Miracle at the Vistula" should tell you everything there is to know about how lucky Poland was to win that particular war.

Poland should have chosen a form of warfare which played to their strengths like bravery, independence, cunning...a form of guerilla warfare would had made things barely worse than trying to cope with the german and russian juggernauts with conventional warfare. They just were never big enough!

The thing with a guerilla war would be that Russian invasion would have been by no means certain - would Russia really have wanted to get into a war where there was no clear enemy fighting clear battles? Germany would have had to commit a massive amount of troops just to secure Poland - and *then* there would have been an opportunity for an attack from the West.

Let's not forget that Poland could have inflicted carnage upon the Germans if every adult was armed - how on earth could an invading army keep their morale up if they had to regard every man and woman as being a potential aggressor? Poland was poor after independence, but by focusing a strategy based on guerilla war - they could have held out for much, much longer.

I believe Pilsudski even used a form of guerilla warfare at some point?
Ironside 49 | 10,349
5 Jan 2010 #363
And yet another Pole forgets that France did indeed invade Germany in September 1939,

Yeah? say who French? they fight the same as in 1940!
they send what ? battalion ? don't make me laugh Harry!

Britain couldn't have attacked as it had no troops in places

Oh they could come later to support French offensive!

oles tend to be very good at forgetting important facts when it comes to history. My personal favourite is the line about how they were betrayed by the 'west': what goes around comes around and you get what you give.

thats the bulishit and you know it Harry !
And our alleged betraying Ukrainians is lie invented by you!
Poland at last tried, the sole reason to take Kiev was to help allies!
Point is that Britain didn't attempted to do something .......well I think they do not know better, let's forget it.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
5 Jan 2010 #364
Germany would have had to commit a massive amount of troops just to secure Poland - and *then* there would have been an opportunity for an attack from the West.

But then...would have Hitler attacked Russia if the Germans couldn't even keep control of Poland?
Imagine a restless Poland still demanding masses of german troops...with uprisings and bloody streetfighting everywhere...hmmm..

The Wehrmacht generals needed a quiet "Hinterland" to prepare for and start Barbarossa...they did only start as Poland and later France were "pacified"....
Ironside 49 | 10,349
5 Jan 2010 #365
Poland had neither the size, nor the human capital to could have hoped to match Germany or Russia...chosing to play the game like them to their rules could only spell doom.

Thats right! the logical answer was to accept Hitler proposal and become his ally!

Do you know what guerrilla war brings onto the population of the area? It could be much worse then it was, as for west support? phew! Russia is closer and had much experience with destroying people.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,268
5 Jan 2010 #366
But then...would have Hitler attacked Russia if the Germans couldn't even control Poland?

Pretty doubtful really - Hitler relied on speed, and if Poland was causing vast amounts of trouble for him, combined with a sudden attack on the Western border after a few weeks - then it's hard to imagine the German people really supporting yet more slaughter of their own in Poland.

Imagine a restless Poland still demanding masses of german troops...with uprisings and bloody streetfighting everywhere...hmmm..

It gets even worse when you consider the ethnic Germans and Ukranians - the Germans would be forced into choosing a side, so you can easily imagine carnage as they couldn't be trusted by either side - and Ukranians could easily have started fighting anyone that moved. The place would be ungovernable! It's also not so hard to imagine the Soviet Union entering the fray too - and I can't imagine Stalin helping Hitler in any way.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
5 Jan 2010 #367
Pretty doubtful really - Hitler relied on speed, and if Poland was causing vast amounts of trouble for him, combined with a sudden attack on the Western border after a few weeks - then it's hard to imagine the German people really supporting yet more slaughter of their own in Poland.

I agree...much of the nimbus of "Hitler the invincible military genius" developed after the successfull campaigns in Poland and France.

Had he struggled or been seriously contested (doesn't matter how) his Generals who doubted his plans and strategies would had had a bigger say...
Harry
5 Jan 2010 #368
Poland at last tried, the sole reason to take Kiev was to help allies!

Once they were of no further use to you, you sold your Ukrainian allies to the Soviets. You looked at your treaty which guaranteed the right of Ukraine to exist as an independent state, defined the borders, guaranteed the rights of Ukrainians and clearly stated that no separate peace would be signed by Poland or Ukraine, and then you sold them to the Soviets. And when I say "sold them to the Soviets" I am not using the phrase in the same way as you use 'the British sold Poland to the Soviets'. I am talking about a clear transaction where the price is known: 30 million gold roubles. That is what you sold your allies for.

Britain couldn't have attacked as it had no troops in places

Oh they could come later to support French offensive!

No, they had been moved there in advance. It takes a while to move an army. Poland said it could hold for six months so the decision was taken not to move the British army into what could have been interpreted as offensive positions.

Point is that Britain didn't attempted to do something .......well I think they do not know better, let's forget it.

Yes, six years of war is just nothing at all isn't it?
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
5 Jan 2010 #369
the question is - what British unit liberated Poland?

I answered this question earlier and was told no British person had died on Polish soil during WW2. Therefore I posted to those who said no British person had died on Polish soil during WW2.

You have not come, Brit, you directed (with your diplomacy) the full German blow towards Poland. I heard the first plans were to take France.

You heard did you? Great source!!

The Nazi's viewed Slavs and Jews as Sub-Human (Fact) But they would attack France instead of Poland?

They wanted all the land taken off them from the end of WW1 back as German.
Parts of Czechoslovakia, Poland and France.

Callaghan was a Labour Politician, these people did not agree with War and using the military. Look how many Labour Governments went to war (Ignore Blair's New Labour because its not true Labour) Britain was not prepared for War, we did not use Appeasement to buy time for war, it was used to try and prevent war. The Conservative Government did not agree with this policy.

Poland was butchered, then finished off by Soviets

The Soviets invaded Poland on the 17 Sept 1939, Poland were still fighting. Poland surrendered to the Soviets and Nazi's when the Soviets and Nazi's both reached the Bug river.

Britain was an ally of Poland, stop attacking Britain and attack the real villains. Oh sorry, the Nazi's and Soviets are gone now so you attack someone else.

The Nazi's and Soviets wanted to wipe Poland off the map AGAIN as they had done 200 years earlier. Britain helped Poland regain its country from Germany and Russia after WW1 with the Treaty of Versailles.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
5 Jan 2010 #370
Britain helped Poland regain its country from Germany and Russia after WW1 with the Treaty of Versailles.

Well...some say all later mess started there...but british empire border drawing is still demanding blood even today!
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
5 Jan 2010 #371
I know the mess started there, the victors were very stupid when they set all the borders during the Treaty of Versailles.

I was just trying to point out that the UK did not direct the Nazi's to attack Poland just to prepare for war. Britain tried to be an ally but its thrown back in our faces by some Polish people.

The BRITISH RAF tried to help Liberate Poland from the Nazi's by supplying the Warsaw Uprising but were hampered by the Soviets because they wanted to occupy Poland after they kicked out the Nazi's.

The Nazi's and the Soviets were responsible for what happened to Poland, not Britain.

(Note that i say Nazi's and Soviets and not Germans and Russians)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
5 Jan 2010 #372
(Note that i say Nazi's and Soviets and not Germans and Russians)

Don't get a knot in your knickers! ;)

It was quite interchangable during those days..
Harry
5 Jan 2010 #373
Britain tried to be an ally but its thrown back in our faces by some Polish people.

That is because it is easier for them to blame other people than to place the blame where it really goes (because if they put it where it really goes they would have to put some on themselves).
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
5 Jan 2010 #374
Britain tried to be an ally but its thrown back in our faces by some Polish people.

Really??? Poor little Britain and the tiny weak Empire, it couldn't move a finger, poor thing! Not when those scary Germans were around, recovering from WWI poverty, Versailles 'shame', with the entire economy directed from food to military. HOW SCARY!!!

If Britain was so poor and little, she should have not entered the agreement with Poland.

Now you are eternal traitors.

But we know already that the real war was not what went ahead on Polish territory, the real was that Germany saw that money lay in the colonies, and wanted colonies, too. Who wouldn't? So the cunning Britain protected it's interests by drawing the Hitler maniac to Poland.

And yes, Harry correctly points to French military fighting - but the fighting was in Africa. It had to do with colonial front, not double-jumping the Reich.

And actually, in Africa the French army was doing mighty well. Getting beat by them was how the USArmy was gaining their WW2 experience, later used to annihilate yellow inferiors in Japan.

And those homicidal maniacs dare to turn around and point at us as Anti-Semite!!!
Harry
5 Jan 2010 #375
Now you are eternal traitors.

As opposed to Poles who stab their allies in the back, invade most of their neighbours and break half the treaties they sign.

So the cunning Britain protected it's interests by drawing the Hitler maniac to Poland.

Yes, and they were so cunning that they did that while Hitler was a failed mob leader locked up and out of politics! They got to him right at the start and set his mind on expansion and living room in the east.

And those homicidal maniacs dare to turn around and point at us as Anti-Semite!!!

Jedwabne. Kielce. Krakow. The murder of heroes like Leon Feldhendler. 1968. The ghetto benches. Banning Jews from being doctors or lawyers. The Poles who took part in the holocaust. None of that at all anti-semitic.
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
5 Jan 2010 #376
Poles who stab their allies in the back

Actually it's the Londoner sport - they like to stab Poles in the back. As usual.

They got to him right at the start and set his mind on expansion and living room in the east.

The Reich wanted France. France was to be humiliated for Versaille.

None of that at all anti-semitic.

No, it's war. And if you think that Jew are better than others and can't be touched, while they are being paid by Commies, welcoming Soviets to Poland, and signing up for the party, murdering partisans as UB members, being criminal judges of Stalinist period, enforcing a Minc and Berman regime, you are wrong. Jews have murdered and murdered and murdered.

Then they fled to America.
America wouldn't allow Jews full Americanization until the 60s - trouble at work etc.
Jews still love America, because Poland is Poor and America is rich.
As soon as Poland makes money, Jews are moving back in. Claiming to be murdered by Poles not Nazis.

Jedwabne.

Jedwabne was under Nazi occupation, so sod off. It was the GG at the moment. There were Nazi officers and troops there.

29 Jan 1944 Koniuchy. As per the words of one of the attackers, Chaim Lazar, the aim was to destroy all the population in Koniuchy, Polish Catholics, by the Soviet units, one of whom, Death to Occupiers, was formed entirely of Jews.

Kielce

In a fairly large city full of police all kinds of Soviet uniformed forces, it was allowed to happen - a real, long riot, right? But only 39 Jews and 2 Poles were killed - why not all of them? Surely Poles had to rescue the rest of the Jews, otherwise the sheer hatred would kill them.

You scumbag idiot. all of you. After what the Helmuten done to the Jews, everyone felt for them, even the fiercest nationalists. Up to the present day

POLAND IS NOT DEFENDING HERSELF AGAINST JEWISH SLANDER, POLAND IS NOT TALKING BACK, BECAUSE AS LONG AS THE CAMP SURVIVORS LIVE, WE ARE COMPASSIONATE TOWARDS YOU!!!

The ghetto benches

In the USA up until today there are limits on who many blacks and whites are allowed into education. The cap on Jews was formed so that peasants could get into the university, too. All through the PRL there were negative points for being gentry and positive for being a peasant. It's the same as giving benefits to the poor, while the rest has to work. It's not fair, and I disagree.

The murder of heroes like Leon Feldhendler

Many more heroes in Poland have been murdered. Some by the Jews in the UB. Those same Jews, like Helena Wolińska, a Soviet criminal, who after partial thaw of Communism, have escaped to... the UK, claiming.. Anti-Semitism.
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
5 Jan 2010 #377
The Reich wanted France. France was to be humiliated for Versaille.

Hitler hated Poland much more than the French and was going to wipe you off the map again with or without Britain. Hitler hid his military build up in civilian guises. Lufthansa changed into the Luftwaffa, they took the seats out and then had bombers.

But we know already that the real war was not what went ahead on Polish territory, the real was that Germany saw that money lay in the colonies, and wanted colonies, too. Who wouldn't? So the cunning Britain protected it's interests by drawing the Hitler maniac to Poland.

Grow up. Your history is warped. Argue with facts all you like but you just look stupid.
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
5 Jan 2010 #378
Grow up. Your history is warped. Argue with facts all you like but you just look stupid.

So where is your precious Empire? Britain lost the colonies somehow - ooo, they had to be part of the game!

And Hitler hated Poland? Well, january 1938 saw a meeting Beck-Ribbentrop. Hitler admired Piłsudski. War against Poland was one of possible opening moves, not the only one. The anger came later, when Germany was offered an alliance with Soviets, believing that Poland was a lost cause. And rightly - imagine, a country with such a Jewish population joning with Hitler?!

When you are enjoying yourself about how Slavs were to be wiped out, explain to me, how come Germany like the Balkan Slavs, with much the same from them? Are they not Slavs, or is there something you just don't get, when you are feeling all too white?
king polkakamon - | 544
5 Jan 2010 #379
Lufthansa changed into the Luftwaffa, they took the seats out and then had bombers.

First time I hear that.So are Boeings the new stealths?
Ironside 49 | 10,349
6 Jan 2010 #380
Once they were of no further use to you, you sold your Ukrainian allies to the Soviets.

We were talking about it before, you prefer to be an idiot, so be it.:
"
Yes, we sold them at last we had a motive - money!
Whats your excuse for betraying us ? pure malice? British malice ?

"

I was just trying to point out that the UK did not direct the Nazi's to attack Poland just to prepare for war.

Well, I'm not sure that you are right!

Britain was an ally of Poland, stop attacking Britain and attack the real villains. Oh sorry,

Well, nobody is attacking Britain but there some issues which need to be explained as its seems nobody is able to do so.
All we get back is aggression or bullsite about how much Britain done for Poland.

Well...some say all later mess started there...but british empire border drawing is still demanding blood even today!

Actually Britain were very restrained as to borders between Poland and Germany, its was France which supported Poland.
As for border with Russia neither France nor Britain had anything to do with them!
king polkakamon - | 544
6 Jan 2010 #381
the real was that Germany saw that money lay in the colonies, and wanted colonies, too.

Germany was not really interested in colonies.They used them as a bargain in exchange for european hegemony.
Steveramsfan 2 | 306
6 Jan 2010 #382
When you are enjoying yourself about how Slavs were to be wiped out, explain to me, how come Germany like the Balkan Slavs, with much the same from them?

You are a prized buffoon. I have nothing against slavs at all. Its just a fact that Hitler thought Slavs as Sub Human. Hitler Attacked Russia, his pact with Russia was just part of his plan. The Soviets would help to destroy Poland then he would destroy the Soviets. Living space to the East is what Hitler wanted and the Slavs were in his way.

You are so blind and WANT to blame Britain. Britain thought Hitler would stop if they let him have the Sudetenland, stupid yes, to betray Poland no. Britain was not ready for war with Germany until 6 June 1944. We just tried to do the best we could. Do you know anything about the Battle of Britain? Britain were lucky that Hitler was not really interested in invading, if he had invaded after the Battle of Britain he would have over run us. FACT

The British Army has been lucky throughout history, the officers and politicians have never reacted fast enough or in the correct ways and the normal soldiers have managed to win the battles.

Famous Hitler quote "Give me British soldiers and German Officers and I will rule the world"

He wanted Britain to join him to use our Empire, have you heard of Rudolf Hess?
Bzibzioh
6 Jan 2010 #383
Britain helped Poland regain its country from Germany and Russia after WW1 with the Treaty of Versailles.

Really? How so?
TheOther 6 | 3,821
6 Jan 2010 #384
Well, there seem to be at least two different versions of history floating around here. Which one is yours? The one where Poland regained her independence through some heroic uprising and without any outside help? :)
Bzibzioh
6 Jan 2010 #385
Well, there seem to be at least two different versions of history floating around here... :)

Yeah, the British version and everybody else's.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591
6 Jan 2010 #386
No..I think that is mainstream version:

web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob18.html

Arts. 87/89 "Germany . . . recognises the complete independence of Poland, and renounces in her favor [all former Polish territory in possession of Germany, excepting east Prussia]."

/wiki/Little_Treaty_of_Versailles

The Polish treaty was signed on 28 June 1919, the very same day as the main Treaty of Versailles was signed - hence one of its names.

It was the first of the Minority Treaties, and served as the template for the subsequent ones; together with Articles 87-93 of Treaty of Versailles it also formally established Poland as a sovereign and independent state on the international arena.[1][2][3]

OP Ksysia 25 | 430
6 Jan 2010 #387
You are so blind and WANT to blame Britain.

No, I actually WANT to
make it pure. Idiot.

Britain was not ready for war with Germany until 6 June 1944

shouldn't have given guarrantees

Do you know anything about the Battle of Britain?

You mean where the Polish remains fought so that at least you can live? Cham.

Yes, Silesian Uprisings, Posnan uprising - they all never happened and really mean that Polish subhumans were always controlled by nice and clean Germans, since 1200 years. Grow the fcuk up.
Harry
6 Jan 2010 #388
WE ARE COMPASSIONATE TOWARDS YOU!!!

A full reply will come later. For now I'll just say this: stop calling me Jew, b!tch.
1jola 14 | 1,879
6 Jan 2010 #389
I do not engage in discussions about French history because I haven't read one book written by a French historian. Now, if I had read a few on French history written by British historians, would I be qualified for a decent discussion with a Frenchman about France?

You can replace France with Ireland if it makes this point easier for you.
time means 5 | 1,310
6 Jan 2010 #390
Now you are eternal traitors.

And now it must pay by accommodating moaning whiny fcuks like you. It's is no wonder no one has liked/got on with you in your numerous jobs over here.

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