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Scandals, conflicts, tensions, arguments - real life examples from Poland


mafketis 21 | 7,465
31 Jul 2019 #31
Antoni discovered his wonderful talents.

PiS making a big deal about LGBT issues is actually kind of hilarious given the open-secret knowledge about JK and AM's penchant for.... mentoring(?) barely educated young men of dubious charm...
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #32
you of all positions in state companies that PiS grabbed for themselves

most of these positions were occupied by PO cronies before PiS came to power - and they earned as much or even more than now - like this guy Grad : wpolityce.pl/polityka/260400-koledzy-z-platformy-dobrze-sie-bawia-budowa-elektrowni-atomowej-w-polsce

JK and AM's penchant for.... mentoring(?) barely educated young men of dubious charm...

name this pet young man that was 'mentored' by Kaczyński or just shut up - by the way Macierewicz has a wife - just use your internet sometimes
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #33
Od stycznia 2016 do stycznia 2017 roku

Lenka just read the article I posted about the earnings of Aleksander Grad (he raked in 55 thousand PLN a month) leading an institution that was supposed to build a nuclear plant in Poland - and it built exactly nothing but spent 1.5 BILLION PLN on 'expertyzy'
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #34
@gumishu

also there was a scandal of Sikorski travels - he claimed that he made 32 thousands kilometers in his private car between 2007 and 2014 when he was a defence minister - this amounted to almost 30 000 PLN which he claimed from Sejm - if you don't believe here's an excerpt of a Polish article about that :

- Tygodnik "Wprost" napisał, że Sikorski w okresie od 2007 r. do września 2014 r., kiedy pełnił funkcję szefa polskiej dyplomacji i przysługiwał mu samochód służbowy z kierowcą, a także ochrona BOR, przejechał prywatnym autem w celach służbowych 32 tys. km. Za każdy przejechany kilometr własnym samochodem poseł dostaje z Sejmu 83 gr.
mafketis 21 | 7,465
31 Jul 2019 #35
name this pet young man that was 'mentored' by Kaczyński

no, it's AM that 'mentors' them.... but JK is most likely not..... entirely heterosexual (surely you've heard the stories)

Macierewicz has a wife

Lots of men who seek the.... company? of young men have wives....
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #36
(surely you've heard the stories)

no I haven't heard stories - I have heard allegations without any hint of proof - even if Kaczyński is a gay in denial he doesn't support things like gay adoptions which I welcome from politicians

honestly I don't know where you people were when PO was in power - in a mousehole? - not reading anything past Gazeta Wyborcza?
Ziemowit 12 | 3,611
31 Jul 2019 #37
more serious things happened during the PO rule as per abuse of state funded flights

Are you going to tell us that things were not going to change for the better under PiS rule, but only become "less serious"? I shall then remind you of the famous slogan coined by former PM Beata Szydło as aguidance for all PiS political activists - "Pokora, Praca, Umiar". Yes - Restraint, stupid! 23 flights with family to Rzeszów on board of a government plane is not what we (editorial) may count as "restraint".

you just need to take a look at Wiadomości TVP

For how long yet are they going to endlessly repeat: Waza zbiła się etruska - wina Tuska! ?

And last, but not least, Mr. Kuchciński's spokesman (or other Sejm official) had at first insisted that Kuchciński did not take his family on board on any occasion. Now, what filter should you put on to see that lying was not mentioned in the message of Beata Szydło?
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #38
Waza zbiła się etruska - wina Tuska!

I watch Wiadomości TVP quite often (but not really regularly) and I haven't seen anything like you claim in months - I admit that they go too far with "propaganda sukcesu" (success propaganda?) and this may backfire on them

had at first insisted that Kuchciński did not take his family on board on any occasion

I missed that to be honest - perhaps because I don't read the likes of gazeta.pl and watch TVN because it's constant shitstorm against PiS and it gets on my nerves - also I sometimes go for days without checking news
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #39
also I know you are sort of moderate as far as Polish politic goes Ziemowit, but I honestly can't remember you raising the issues of blatant corruption or shady behaviour of PO politicians during their joint rule with PSL - maybe you didn't read the websites and commentators i read at the time

pawian on the other hand is an example of a fanatic to me to be honest
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
31 Jul 2019 #40
pawian on the other hand is an example of a fanatic to me to be honest

hahaha I don`t have time to discuss things for a while cause I am going to THE hospital, but in the evening.....

I watch Wiadomości TVP quite often (but not really regularly) and I haven't seen anything like you claim in months -

If I am a fanatic, what are you if you admit such a thing? Brainless is the lightest expression. Or, why don`t you tell us you are on PiS payroll? Did you, like most PiS executives, get a position through connections, not skills or qualifications, ? :):)
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #41
Or, why don`t you tell us you are on PiS payroll?

yes you are a troll indeed - you can't imagine people vote for PiS and support them because of their conscience - and then you are surprised PiS gets over 40 per cent of votes
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,475
31 Jul 2019 #42
get a position through connections, not skills or qualifications, ? :):)

Right because PO never put someone in a position because of connections and politics, and certainly never in the courts.

Macierewicz's little pet spend 57 568 zl in a year on his car.

Omg less than 20k spent on a car oh the outrage the horror! How will pis ever get the funds to recover that?
Lenka 3 | 1,514
31 Jul 2019 #43
Just for petrol for some punk who has no qualifications for the job? Hell yeah it's too much. Especially since he would besically live in the car to use this much so he probably just nicked it
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #44
Just for petrol for some punk who has no qualifications for the job?

you know exactly one example of such behaviour on the part of PiS and the article I quoted for you mentions at least a couple of such instances with PO members
Ziemowit 12 | 3,611
31 Jul 2019 #45
you are sort of moderate as far as Polish politic goes

The political culture in Poland generally lacks moderation, so such a quality seems to be really important. We are far behind Germany or Britain in this respect, I believe. The tradition of this "unmoderate" culture goes back to pre-war Poland where it was even much worse than today.

I honestly can't remember you raising the issues of blatant corruption or shady behaviour of PO politicians

I was possibly too much engaged with fighting the Brit Bullies gang at that time. This is serious what I've just said; that clown Harry and that other clown jon357 were so much annoying and nasty towards Poland that it was a priority for me to join forces with Johnny Reb and others to defeat them and eventually win.

I have always disapproved of the PSL for their greed. I'm sure that one day this party disappears. For PO, I was truly shocked by the scandalous role and behaviour of Warsaw's mayor Hanna Gronkiewicz-Walc in the property privatisation processes. Generally, I believe this scandal (among other things) has made PO sink to positions they will not be able to recover from for quite a long time (if ever).

On the other hand, I have always disliked bombastic patriotism and, most of all, nationalism; the former seemingly being the tradmark of PiS. But I don't think that PiS a a Putin-like "One Russia" party which aimes at dictatorial power while building a democratic facade for their un-democratic actions. What is more, I feel they are now far behind Hungary's Orban "clientelism" yet, but - I hope not - the party's stance may one day advance in that direction.
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #46
I have always disliked bombastic patriotism and,

yes patriotism as celebrated by PiS is bombastic and well over the top - I admit - I also think PiS may possibly get Poland in trouble with all this sociall spending - but I honestly can't see any better alternative at that moment - maybe something is wrong with my mind then - I honestly considered voting for Kukiz in the European elections but it looks like Kukiz is at the verge of collapse
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,475
31 Jul 2019 #47
I also think PiS may possibly get Poland in trouble with all this sociall spending -

I doubt it. PO dropped the ball on collecting vat taxes and thanks to the dramatically increased tax revenue from that and all the corporations that have been coming to Poland especially in the past ,few years.

Also Polands Debt to gdp is tiny compared to countries like USA, France, Germany and even china. Germany has been running a deficit yet it manages to now spend an extra 25 billion coddling unemployed turd worlders - 60 billion if you consider ancillary costs Poland can definitely afford these programs and more as long as the economy steadily grows.
cms neuf - | 1,022
31 Jul 2019 #48
Of course PO were corrupt - but part of the election promise from 2015 was that PIS would end this corruption and patronage - they have not done that and I agree that it has probably got worse.

As for Macierewicz being married - well it is conceivable that some married people like to experiment.
Tacitus 2 | 889
31 Jul 2019 #49
Also Polands Debt to gdp is tiny compared to countries like USA, France, Germany

True, Poland is not really like those countries. Poland's economy is not yet as advanced, and its' population has not yet individually acquired the same wealth as the Westerners. Meanwhile Poland is one of the countries that will be affected the most by the looming demographic decline, so social spending that is unaffordable in the long run is hardly a good idea.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,475
31 Jul 2019 #50
Poland's economy is not yet as advance

and its' population has not yet individually acquired the same wealth as the Westerners

Poland has a developed market status. Besides that has little to do with the fact on whether the government can afford more spending. Germany and us have a far larger economy yet they can't pay for programs they already have thanks to all the bums and turd worlders currently being supported, so they pay interest and will for eternity basically. The most important things that dictate that are government revenues which Poland gets a big amount from state owned companies and tax revenue and its current debt obligations and debt to gdp/debt to government spending ratios all of which are significantly lower than other countries whos economies and government evenues are similar to Poland.

Ultimately the main reason why Poland can afford more programs is because it has low debt and tax revenue has shot up primarily with better vat collection and second corporate taxes from all the companies coming to Poland.

Meanwhile Poland is one of the countries that will be affected the most by the looming demographic decline,

Not nearly as much as other countries. Besides a demographic decline isn't necessarily a bad thing considering jobs are becoming more and more automated. Also it helps keep unemployment levels low and wages competitive.
Tacitus 2 | 889
31 Jul 2019 #51
yet they can't pay for programs they already have t

The US perhaps, but Germany very much can afford it. In fact Germany's debt per GDP has been decreasing during the last few years.

Not nearly as much as other countries

There are only a few that will suffer worse, none of which are in Western Europe.

qz.com/1187819/country-ranking-worlds-fastest-shrinking-countries-are-in-eastern-europe/

decline isn't necessarily a bad thing

In some way perhaps, but it also means more old people, thus higher costs for the health system and fewer peoplw to support it. It is also bad news that have low unemployment figures like Poland to begin with.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
31 Jul 2019 #52
that was supposed to build a nuclear plant in Poland - and it built exactly nothing but spent 1.5 BILLION PLN on 'expertyzy'

First, you inserted LGBT into the discussion about financial abuse by PiS politicians. When you realised it didn`t help and more people came to critisize your silly defense of PiS fraudsters, you decided to lie blatantly. Can you show us the sources which prove that PO squandered 1.5 billion on dubious experts` opinions?

When you don`t do it, and I know it for sure. I will show you sources proving that PiS has spent more on delayed nuclear energy project than PO.

Agreed, you liar? Or do you prefer fanatic liar? hahaha

famous slogan coined by former PM Beata Szydło as aguidance for all PiS political activists - "Pokora, Praca, Umiar". Yes - Restraint, stupid!

Exactly. What nice words! :):)

that PIS would end this corruption and patronage - they have not done that and I agree that it has probably got worse.

How true! You are virtually taking words out of my mouth. :):)

To sum up, guys defending PiS - don`t be such idiots and stop making analogies to PO. PO paid for their mistakes with lost elections in 2015 and 2019. NOW it is PiS`s time. This thread was created in 2019 and we are talking about PiS`s frauds. So fek off PO and focus on your beloved PiS.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,475
31 Jul 2019 #53
In fact Germany's debt per GDP has been decreasing during the last few years.

Debt to gdp is one measure and Germany is in a far worse position to afford all the programs as it has relative to Poland. Debt to government spending shows a more complete picture and I more important in determining a governments spending sustainability. And Poland relatively has way less debt relatively.

And Germany is certainly having problems - budget shortfall of over 10 bil.

google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1SF1IW

dw.com/en/germanys-fat-years-of-high-tax-revenue-are-over-finance-minister-scholz/a-46974070

There are only a few that will suffer worse, none of which are in Western Europe.

Yes because instead of programs to encourage natives to have kids which will be the next generation of taxpayers they instead import turd worlders who don't contribute and cost taxpayers billions. In Germany it's 74% unemployment among migrants and 25 bill annually spent coddling them. That number will only increase as being bums and benefits leeches is passed down. Meanwhile the natives who make up the tax base are shrinking.

Pensioners can't even get a proper apartment because the government is giving preference to housing people who haven't contributed jack to the system.
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #54
Can you show us the sources which prove that PO squandered 1.5 billion on fake experts` opinions?

wpolityce.pl/polityka/260400-koledzy-z-platformy-dobrze-sie-bawia-budowa-elektrowni-atomowej-w-polsce - I based my statements on this source - after reading more carefully I have to admit I misunderstood it a bit - according to the author of the article all money spent on the project of Polish nuclear plants amounted to 1.5 billion - but the guys who ran the show really earned a lot according to all articles on the topic (although they don't all agree on the figures)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,475
31 Jul 2019 #55
Yeah but 50k zloty is pretty consistent for an executive in charge of hundreds if not thousands od people. If it was 500k zloty a month thatd be very suspect.
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #56
And Germany is certainly having problems - budget shortfall of over 10 bil.

so Germany has budget shortfall now? - I heard before that in previous years German budget scored surpluses

Yeah but 50k zloty is pretty consistent for an executive in charge of hundreds if not thousands od people.

this was definitely not thousands of people - the project never actually reached physiacal manifestation
Tacitus 2 | 889
31 Jul 2019 #57
Debt to gdp is one measure and

It is, another important measure is the wealth of its citizen, and thus their ability to finance their later retirement costs, which is as pointed out another thing that is lacking in Poland.

For now perhaps, which is to be expected given the language barriers and lack qualifaction, but more and more refugees are getting integrated into the labor market.

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-refugee-intake-boost-economy-ageing-population-unemployment-a8901161.html

25 bill annually spent coddling them

A small amount of money relatively speaking. Germany spends close to 1tn€ on its' welfare state and the way the money is distributed it benefits the German economy, basically a mini-stimulus.

budget shortfall

Something every government has to deal with time to time. In the case of Germany, it is a very small one, and won't lead to the country taking on additional debt (something that Poland is doing).
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
31 Jul 2019 #58
Misiewicz, Macierewicz's little pet spend 57 568 zl in a year on his car

And there are thousands such Misiewiczes, also called PiSiewiczes, in hundreds state companies controlled by the PiS government. They are sucking this country like insatiable leeches.

most of these positions were occupied by PO cronies before PiS came to power

And now there are PiS cronies. Thanks, I learnt a new word. :):)

honestly I don't know where you people were when PO was in power - in a mousehole?

Did I tell you already to take Buerlecithin syrop for better memory? You have a very short one. I have already mentioned it that in times of PO rule we discussed freely their faults.

Check this ancient thread again, you contributed immediately, see post No 4. Can you see who started the thread? Pawian. ha!!

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-failures-tusk-government-51598/#msg1115814

Sorry for calling your opinions idiotic but what else can be said if you still mention PO`s things after PiS has ruled for nearly 4 years now?

Don`t you agree it is a very logical attitude: in times of PO we discuss PO, in times of PiS we discuss PiS?
Heh? What say you?

I have to admit I misunderstood it -

OK, you withdraw your lies. Thank you. :):)

I posted about the earnings of Aleksander Grad (he raked in 55 thousand PLN a month) a nuclear plant in Polan

Yes, and when PiS changed the board and replaced it with PiS cronies, do you think they gave up those earnings? No, they kept them for nearly two years. hahaha

tvn24bis.pl/z-kraju,74/ile-zarabia-prezes-spolki-pge-ej1,844096.html

spent 1.5 BILLION PLN on 'expertyzy'

Nearly 1 billion was spent from 2009 to 2019. Most of this sum during PiS rule.
niewygodne.info.pl/artykul9/04856-Paraliz-POPiS-ws-elektrowni-atomowej.htm
gumishu 11 | 5,017
31 Jul 2019 #59
I have already mentioned it that in times of PO rule we discussed freely their faults.

are you somehow restricted in voicing your opinion now ?
in times of PO you talked about the achievements of PO government mostly - why don't you talk about PiS achievements now - like significant lowering of VAT gap (counted in billions - like over 20 billion PLN now) - like eliminating of petrol mafias who never paid any akcyza in Poland - have I made all these up

No, they kept them for nearly two years. hahaha

but they eventually lowered them quite significantly - do you remember any such move on the part of PO during their rule? I don't

and seriously ? you never heard of the word crony before? don't you read internet in English?
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
31 Jul 2019 #60
n times of PO you talked about the achievements of PO government mostly - why don't you talk about PiS achievements now

I see you still have a problem with logic. If I support PO, it is natural I focus on their successes. I you like PiS, you can write about their successes. Why me? Did you write about PO`s achievements in the past? No. So why do you demand me to do it about PiS? Your logic is somehow twisted.

But it is also manipulative logic. I tried to be impartial and started a thread about PO`s failures. Are you able to do it about PiS` failures? No. Why? Because you are the same liar and manipulator as the whole PiS. :):)

they eventually lowered them quite significantly - do you remember any such move on the part of PO during their rule?

No, but I remember that PiS granted themselves a lot of extra bonuses, much more than PO.

HA!

and seriously ? you never heard of the word crony before? don't you read internet in English?

Hardly ever. I mostly read Polish sites. And here, mostly Polish threads. In fact, all English posts here are written by my wife. E..g, now, you are also discussing things with her. And I see she is chasing you into the corner in each post.

Dagmar, you are the most brilliant woman I have ever met. Thank you for being my wife and mother to my kids.

hahahaha


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