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Scandals, conflicts, tensions, arguments - real life examples from Poland


gumishu 11 | 5,012
31 Jul 2019  #61
No, but I remember that PiS granted themselves a lot of extra bonuses, much more than PO.

how do you know PO and its cronies didn't grant themselves bonuses in the similar amounts - just from glancing at those articles about Grad and PGE JE I saw there was a mention that they were allowed high bonuses
Lenka 3 | 1,371
31 Jul 2019  #62
But with PiS we are talking only about the cabinet. We don't even go to different companies. And it was compared and made public. That was big at the time
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
31 Jul 2019  #63
how do you know PO and its cronies didn't grant themselves bonuses in the similar amounts

Contrary to you, I hardly ever write sth that I didn`t check before. :):)

In short, bonuses in PiS government were 12 times higher than those in PO`s.

wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/nik-nagrody-rzadu-pis-dwanascie-razy-wyzsze-niz-za-czasow-po-psl/lyw5btv

There is also a special site concerning all ways in which PiS is sucking public money like leeches. It is called PiSbonuses and provides info on millions earned by PiS in :

- local councils
- agricultural agency
- government

And to sum up, it provides a ranking of all PiS cronie millionaires syphoning off the state budget.

premiepis.pl/

PS. Gumishu, it is high time you realised you have no chance in this discussion. Stop defending PiS with PO analogies because it is useless and you are only making a fanatic fool of yourself. :):)


  • PiS profligacy, PO poverty
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,383
31 Jul 2019  #64
A small amount of money

A small amount? 25 billion is more than Germany spends on education.

According to a German analyst once ancillary costs of migrants such as incarceration, medical care, prosecution for all the crimes they commit, increased police presence in "no go zones," etc the figure is closer to 60 billion. That means the average German taxpayer spends about 1 months salary providing for migrants.

country taking on additional debt (something that Poland is doing).

Germany is doing that too by coddling migrants with tens of billions a year.

In fact, Germany and polands government spending to gdp is almost identical at a bit over 40% and polands government debt to gdp is 10% lower idk how you can say Germany is in a better position.

but more and more refugees are getting integrated into the labor market.

ROFL 99% of refugees are unemployed while with migrants it's 74% and they're expected to be unemployed for 5+ years and many for 10+ according to a German government figures speaking with financial times.
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
31 Jul 2019  #65
Hey, Dirk and Tacitus, we are so happy you participate in the thread but let me remind you, this is Scandals and conflicts in Poland, and not German welfare expenses on immigrants. :):)
mafketis 20 | 7,242
31 Jul 2019  #66
Stop defending PiS with PO analogies

What else do they have? They can't defend PiS behavior so they just say that PO was worse (they weren't though PO was very far from perfect or even good...)
Lenka 3 | 1,371
31 Jul 2019  #67
That's the problem really. There is no real alternative. No party with fresh ideas. As much as I dislike PiS I must admit they don't really have proper competition.
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
31 Jul 2019  #68
They can't defend PiS behavior so they just say that PO was worse

Yes, it is normal that PiS lying media do it because they are paid for it. Their primitive propaganda is directed at those brainless voters.

But when guys come here and do the same, what should we think about it?

PO was very far from perfect or even good...)

Yes, exactly, but their time passed and now it is PiS` time. I am trying to make gumishu aware of it but he sort of refuses to understand it,. Brainless or deranged?

hahaha
Tacitus 2 | 846
31 Jul 2019  #69
A small amount? 25 billion is more than Germany spends on education.

Again with this nonsense. Germany spends more than 200bn on education. The amount you are refering to is the federal budget, which is only a fraction of the expenses. The German schools and universities are all funded by the federal counties.

Here are the (outdated) numbers from 2014.

The education budget thus comprised a total Euro 192.1 billion in 2014

eacea.ec.europa.eu/national-policies/eurydice/content/funding-education-31_en

If you have any ability to proceed information, you will now stop using this silly argument.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
31 Jul 2019  #70
Furthermore, as education is seen in Germany as a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT, and not merely an entitlement of a privileged class,
it is taken way more seriously than it is, say, here in the US!
gumishu 11 | 5,012
1 Aug 2019  #71
Stop defending PiS with PO analogies because it is useless and you are only making a fanatic fool of yourself. :):)

maybe that's why they created a VAT gap (including VAT carousels) 25 billion worth - what did they need bonuses for if they were hand in hand with VAT mafias
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
1 Aug 2019  #72
Why are you lying again? There has been investigation run by PiS since 2015. Was anybody convicted of criminal activity? No. Was anybody taken to court for political negligence? No. What did Tusk do with PiS parliamentary investigators when they tried to involve him in VAT gap? He smashed their allegations into pieces and made incompetent fools of them.

Did VAT gap disappear during PiS rule? No, it still exists. According to your thesis, does it mean PiS is hand in hand with mafias?

Answer me.

How Tusk knocked out the VAT gap parliamentary commission run by PiS
natemat.pl/276261,komisja-pis-ws-wyludzen-vat-donald-tusk-wypunktowal-czlonkow-pis

It is incredible how you insist on lying so blatantly. In this way you are wasting any credibility that you might have gained here for years. Don`t you understand that each of your posts in a new discussion in the future will be countered with you liar reply?

Liar. liar. hahaha
gumishu 11 | 5,012
1 Aug 2019  #73
Did VAT gap disappear during PiS rule?

na jakim ty świecie chłopie żyjesz - po przejęciu przez PiS władzy i wydaniu wojny mafiom VATowskim dochody z tytułu VAT wzrosły o ponad 20 miliardów niemal z roku na rok
gumishu 11 | 5,012
1 Aug 2019  #74
20 billion PLN is a 15 per cent growth year to year (between 2016 and 2017)

by the way the data you have shown for bonuses in the times of PiS pertains to bonuses paid to the ministers - when you look at global bonuses paid to state administration the comparison is not as glaring: in 2014 452 million PLN was paid in bonuses and in 2017 712 million - the 8,6 millon figure paid to ministers in bonuses in 2017 pales in comparison to the global figures
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
1 Aug 2019  #75
na jakim ty świecie chłopie żyjesz

hahaha you are so desperate you forgot English?

However, stop twisting and manipulating. I asked you a very simple question.

Again:

Did VAT gap disappear under PiS rule?

As you have to answer: No, next question:

Does it mean PiS goes hand in hand with VAT mafias?

Answer this last simple question, you liar.

HA!
gumishu 11 | 5,012
1 Aug 2019  #76
As you have to answer: No, next question:

the part of the VAT gap that was due to VAT caroussels and other serious VAT fraud was almost wiped out I guess - the remaining VAT gap is due to small businesses not issueing invoices and thus avoiding paying VAT
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
1 Aug 2019  #77
hahaha Why are you avoiding a simple answer to a simple question?

Does PiS go hand in hand with VAT mafias?

hahahaha you are a really comical liar.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
1 Aug 2019  #78
sorry you are an idiot - the VAT gap during PO times comprised for the big part of large scale VAT fraud - this fraud was largely eliminated as proven by the huge growth in VAT income - the small scale VAT fruad that relies on not issueing invoices and similar was not even addressed for the most part by now - maybe there will come a time when addressing this issue would be more welcome by the populace
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
1 Aug 2019  #79
So, I asked gumishu a simple question but he called me an idiot. Was the question too simple and he felt offended because expected sth more sophisticated? :):)

Or is he still lying and manipulating?
HA!
gumishu 11 | 5,012
1 Aug 2019  #80
Was the question too simple? :):)

the simple answer to your simple question is that PiS doesn't go hand in hand with VAT fraudsters - my previous answer was to show you why but you probably can't add two to two

ok pawian - I shouldn't have called you an idiot because you might have been unaware of the fact that VAT gap is caused by various things not just large scale VAT fraud that some people call VAT mafias - but I hope you are enlightened on the topic now
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
1 Aug 2019  #81
the simple answer to your simple question is that PiS doesn't go hand in hand with VAT fraudsters

OK, at last. :):) However, if we follow your previous logic, it turns out you are lying again. HA!

Now, look at your way of thinking. A dozen posts before you accused PO of being partners to VAT mafias.

We know that PIS hasn`t eliminated VAT avoidance - mafias still grab unpaid taxes. There are many articles about it. And we mean not only small scale cheating, but frauds with millions involved

bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Akt-oskarzenia-przeciw-zatrzymanej-przez-ABW-grupie-oszukujacej-na-paliwie-i-podatkach-7709198.html

According to your previous logic, if VAT mafias still exist, PiS must go hand in hand with them, just like you suggested it for PO.

Isn`t it simple?

do you realize that Kuchciński's family attended only to seven (literally seven) flights

Really? Journalists counted 100 flights with him on board in the last 1.5 year. PiS officials are hiding documents but the truth will surface anyway.

fakty.interia.pl/polska/news-po-ko-sprawdza-loty-marszalka-kuchcinskiego-kolejne-ustaleni,nId,3125842

BTW, you tried to impute that PO politiciand flew very often. But PiS do, too.

When will you admit that PiS is doing the same things as PO? :):)

ok pawian - I shouldn't have called you an idiot

I don`t care what you call me, it can be even debil do kwadratu hahaha. What matters is that you are still lying and manipulating, trying to blacken PO and whiten PiS. I caught you doing it several times and despite it, you keep on. That is amazing. Are you sure you don`t work as a PiS propagandist somewhere in the state media?

Ha!
gumishu 11 | 5,012
1 Aug 2019  #82
bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Akt-oskarzenia-przeciw-zatrzymanej-przez-ABW-grupie-oszukujacej-na-paliwie-i-podatkach-7709198.htm

have you noticed a pattern: you hear about people arrested with VAT fraud charges now (for quite some time) - I don't remember hearing about such things during the PO rule - do you?
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
1 Aug 2019  #83
you hear about people arrested with VAT fraud charges now (for quite some time) - I don't remember hearing about such things during the PO rule - do you?

Gumi bear, I must say I was waiting for this kind of reply from you. In fact, I provoked you a little to say it and to give me an opportunity to call you a manipulator again. I hope you don`t mind. :):)

OK, so I am calling you one and now the facts:

2015 - VAT mafia broken, over 100 criminals detained
kielce.tvp.pl/20675837/ponad-sto-osob-oskarzonych-o-wyludzenia-podatku-vat

2014 - a VAT mafia swindled 50 million, 90 criminals arrested.
tvn24.pl/wiadomosci-z-kraju,3/90-zatrzymanych-50-mln-zl-strat-gang-oszustow-podatkowych-rozbity,391989.html

and another one from 2014, 11 criminals detained
wpolityce.pl/polityka/182515-zorganizowana-grupa-przestepcza-dzialala-wokol-budow-autostrad-jest-juz-akt-oskarzenia-w-sprawie-oszustw-podatkowych

2012 - 42 criminals detained
nowiny24.pl/rozbita-grupa-przestepcza-42-osoby-zatrzymane-takze-z-podkarpacia/ar/6172287

2009 - report by Ministry of Finance, fake invoices worth 4.5 billion revealed
mf-arch.mf.gov.pl/documents/764034/1424099/Sprawozdanie+z+dzia%C5%82alno%C5%9Bci+kontroli+skarbowej+za+2009+rok

I could go on and on with those links.

Now, will you eventually agree that I was right calling you a liar, manipulator and immoral PiS propagandist?

Ha!
OP pawian 161 | 9,784
1 Aug 2019  #84
Let`s change the topic.
The latest scandal is drunk driving by a known TV journalist Kamil Durczok. He worked for TVN, the private station disliked by PiS.
Allegedly, he had been drinking for 4 days with his family and a 20 yo girlfriend. Even before taking the wheel, he drank 2 beers. When he caused a minor accident, he had 0,26% blood alcohol content.

Very stupid of him. I hope the court will be stricter than usual because of his celebrity and role model status.

fakt.pl/wydarzenia/polska/piotrkow-trybunalski-kamil-durczok-pil-przez-4-dni-przed-kolizja/646bzp4#slajd-4



mafketis 20 | 7,242
9 Aug 2019  #85
No one wants to talk about the newest budget ailine.... "Air Kuchciński"?

tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english,157,m/poland-s-parliament-speaker-resigns-amid-private-flights-scandal,959510.html
kaprys 2 | 1,826
9 Aug 2019  #86
@mafketis
It's always great to hear where my taxes go.
Chemikiem 6 | 1,994
9 Aug 2019  #87
newest budget ailine.... "Air Kuchciński"?

Hahaha! I was reading about all the flights a couple of days ago, but didn't know he had resigned. Apparently he is quite popular on the internet..... " negative memes on the Internet about "frequent-flyer" Kuchcinski, showing him walking a dog using a helicopter or stuck at work until late and irritably telling his wife by phone: "Where am I? On a plane, of course."

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-poland-politics-kuchcinski/polands-parliament-speaker-resigns-over-private-flights-scandal-idUKKCN1UY19U
cms neuf - | 935
9 Aug 2019  #88
The answers will of course be depressing - referring to what PO were doing four or five years ago.

I don't know why they can't have clear rules about what is and is not paid for when it comes to travelling back to your home constituency. It's really tremendous arrogance
mafketis 20 | 7,242
9 Aug 2019  #89
tvn24 had some local politicians expressing support for him and it was the most PRL thing I'd ever seen... reading prepared texts with no engagement whatsoever...
Chemikiem 6 | 1,994
9 Aug 2019  #90
I am wondering how Patryk Vega's film 'Polityka' will go down with a release date of 6th September, not that long before the elections........anyone planning to go and see it?


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